Re: No Pneumatics?
 

Well before 2012 we didn't use pneumatics at all. But with our octomecanum system last year we were forced to use it. This year we use pneumatics for a whole ton of stuff: floor intake, octomec. system, and disc feeding. But the nicest part about it is sensors, or lack there of. In 2011 we had a whole variety of limit switches that would always break. Now with the pneumatics the systems can be made much simpler and more reliable.

The key is:
-Follow the rulebook the first time. Make sure all your fittings tubing etc. is all legal and COTS
-Do the soapy water check, spray down all your components while under pressure with soapy water and check for leaks otherwise they will be the death of your robot
-Off-board compressor with plastic tanks, we roughly measured that we could put 6~7 tanks on our robot before having an on-board compressor would be worth it
-Do the calculations for your actuators, make sure you arent overdoing it and using the minimum amount of air needed in order to actuate it under load.

Re: No Pneumatics?
 

my team generally uses them every year but we ruled it out because of the weight that it adds, the space they take, and how fast it kills battery's and we did the best in our teams history.

Re: No Pneumatics?
 

On 562, my team as a student, we used pneumatics every year except for Lunacy. We had a couple successful robots, no regional titles, but those robots were very strong.

Since joining 3623 (and even before, during their rookie year) we have not used pneumatics. We were pondering whether to use them this year to hang, but considering our design and the weight penalty comparatively (Our robot was 89 pounds, IIRC) made using pneumatics just for one system impractical. We had no problems without it.

Think about using it year to year, but make sure you know how to use it and set it up correctly. I'd never be opposed, but think about usage.

Re: No Pneumatics?
 

We have not used pneumatics on a robot since 2004.

It's not that we are opposed to using them, we just typically haven't found the tipping point of enough mechanisms that would need that type of actuation to make the investment in weight, packaging, etc...to put a pneumatic system on one of our machines.

With not using them for so long, I think if we are seeing mechanisms differently such that we think a motor and gearbox would work better. I'm sure if we started using pneumatics, we would find plenty of uses for them.

For this year, we were planning on having them on the robot but ran out of space for almost everything. We scrambled to even find room for the battery and cRIO, so even a "passive" pneumatic system without a compressor was pretty much impossible for us. Corner climbing systems take up a lot of space.

-Adam

Re: No Pneumatics?
 

We've used pneumatics every year (starting 2006) except 2009 for Lunacy. Pneumatics are great, they let you put the weight where you want it (the compressor can sit at the bottom center of the robot, or be moved to either end to help balance) and you can add lightweight actuators wherever you want, without having to hassle with gearboxes and extra motors and speed controllers....and limit switches, encoders, PID loops, and all that fun stuff.

Our Lunacy robot moved balls in and out with motors and rollers, it worked very well. That year we got by with only one encoder and PID loop, the rest of the motors were just run when needed.

In the end, it doesn't really matter whether or not you use pneumatics, you can make a great robot with them or without. You'll learn different things, depending on what you use. It's all good.

Re: No Pneumatics?
 

We used them this year. Our rookie year, and I wished we would've used them more!

I really love pneumatics because of the speed/torque. And once it's airtight u don't have any problems at all.... like PWM cables coming lose during a game or something. Only down sides was your inches etc....

We as a Dutch team use different measurements etc.. gave us a set back from a round 1,5 week with stuff we needed to order.. but we got a great robot :D

And we're going to St. Louis and hopefully make it to our divisions eliminations!

Re: No Pneumatics?
 

There are a number of areas in which pneumatics out-perform motors (and, of course, visa-versa). Team 1640 usually uses pneumatic devices in our robots, but in two cases (2006 & 2012) we did not for weight-saving reasons.

Having the ability to utilize pneumatic actuators in our design process provides additional degrees of freedom to enable us to design the best robot that we can. More degrees of freedom increases design difficulty, but potentially (generally) improves the product performance. Having more degrees of freedom does not mean that you need to use them; this is part of the design decision tree which engineers need to make.

Re: No Pneumatics?
 

We have used pneumatic every year you team has existed, i think if you know how to use them right and for the right applications they work well. There much fast than motor but there mainly limited to two positions. Heres a link to our 2011 robot with a fully pneumatic arm and it was a very good robot. We won an event with it, one off-season event, two-time finalist (divisional Finalist) and semi-finalist at MSC.

Re: No Pneumatics?
 

Very interesting design, but I can't see any air storage tanks in the photos, how many did you have, and where were they located?

Re: No Pneumatics?
 

I see 3 metal ones on this picture.

Re: No Pneumatics?
 

1985 has never used pneumatics on a competition bot. I would suppose that our main reason for not using them is the weight; I think this year is the only year we've fielded a robot under 119lbs. The other factor has been the size required for the tanks and actuators and cylinders. We also like the added bonus of being able to skip the pneumatics portion of inspection. And since we have hardly used them at all, we find it easier to have a motor can complete a task rather than having air complete it, but that's just us. We've seen plenty of teams be very successful with pneumatics in their designs, so do whatever your team is good at.

Re: No Pneumatics?
 

The tubing cutter linked above looks to be similar to McMaster-Carr pn/ 8288A51. Does anyone know from experience if one of these works better than the other?

Re: No Pneumatics?
 

Right you are. With how often that arm would have been used in a match, would those three tanks really be enough to keep up with the air supply required?

I haven't used that design specifically, I believe this is the kind I have used. don't remember the brand, but it looks exactly like that one.

Re: No Pneumatics?
 

I am a huge fan of pneumatics they provide a lot for a alittle. last year we had pneumatics adjusting our shooter, and we could not afford the weight to mount a compressor on board. this year we got the new compressor the light one and it is awesome.

Re: No Pneumatics?
 

We ended up actually buying 7 plastic air tanks that were about the same size as those ones and have used them for the last couple of years. I know it sounds like a lot but the robot was really simple compared to having a lot of motors. Mainly there was only four drive motors and 6 solenoids. Especially programming for teleop took like 20 mins which was very easy