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-   -   How does the Districts system work? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116048)

asteb27 14-04-2013 23:06

Re: How does the Districts system work?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrielau23 (Post 1261767)
I came up with a question just now, for teams that have actually participated in a district, actually. About how much time is there between matches? Like, if something on the robot breaks, is there much time to fix it?

We only have a few minutes between each match, but we made use of every second of it on the practice field. It was enough time to fix any of the small issues we had and to change bumpers/battery, but not enough to adequately fix any major mechanical problems. Those have to be fixed after matches are over for the day, but before the pits close. Luckily, we never had any huge mechanical issues. A shoutout to 75 who fell from the top of the pyramid, but still made it to their next match minutes later. Overall, I think the speed of the events make them much more fun and competitive, though it can be tiring.

gabrielau23 14-04-2013 23:19

Re: How does the Districts system work?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by asteb27 (Post 1261944)
We only have a few minutes between each match, but we made use of every second of it on the practice field. It was enough time to fix any of the small issues we had and to change bumpers/battery, but not enough to adequately fix any major mechanical problems. Those have to be fixed after matches are over for the day, but before the pits close. Luckily, we never had any huge mechanical issues. A shoutout to 75 who fell from the top of the pyramid, but still made it to their next match minutes later. Overall, I think the speed of the events make them much more fun and competitive, though it can be tiring.

That sounds extremely intriguing. The only part I'm worried about is, as you noted, the lack of time to fix the major mechanical issues. 2537 this year didn't have any "major" mechanical issues, but I remember that during an offseason competition last year our silo tube (the large green tube in my profile picture) cracked in two. We fixed it with a lot of tape and glue, but I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have been able to do it within 15 minutes.

Lil' Lavery 14-04-2013 23:21

Re: How does the Districts system work?
 
Code issues are often harder to fix than mechanical issues. You'd be surprised how quickly you can get things done mechanically when under pressure. But you can't speed up the time it takes to deploy/build down to a cRio. And given that most teams prefer to test their code prior to taking the field, it's often a dealbreaker during short turnarounds.

DSM33 15-04-2013 01:00

Re: How does the Districts system work?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrielau23 (Post 1261805)
However, how would Overseas teams compete? And as I've mentioned before, I LOVE seeing teams from other states and countries. If FRC eventually moved to all districts, I could see the restrictions like the ones being imposed on FiM being removed, turning the team traveling of FRC back.

The goal, if I remember correctly, is for the restrictions to competing only in your district to disappear once more district systems popped up around the country. This would allow teams to travel and have points earned at another district transfer over to the "home regional" (i.e. Bees traveling to MAR and having the points earned go toward FiM rankings). The district system isn't about limitations. It's about expanding the competition model to allow FRC to expand and grow in a more positive, competitive way.

Maldridge422 15-04-2013 10:41

Re: How does the Districts system work?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DSM33 (Post 1261977)
The goal, if I remember correctly, is for the restrictions to competing only in your district to disappear once more district systems popped up around the country. This would allow teams to travel and have points earned at another district transfer over to the "home regional" (i.e. Bees traveling to MAR and having the points earned go toward FiM rankings). The district system isn't about limitations. It's about expanding the competition model to allow FRC to expand and grow in a more positive, competitive way.

So this would mean that international teams in areas like Latin America, Europe, and Oceania* could potentially have 1 district competition of their own, then travel to the US for a district competition here? With more competitions in local areas, it seems like the district system would be extremely helpful in growing FRC internationally. That's really cool.


*I imagine Canada and Israel could sustain multiple district competitions, and not need to travel internationally.

Rosiebotboss 15-04-2013 10:55

Re: How does the Districts system work?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maldridge422 (Post 1262108)
So this would mean that international teams in areas like Latin America, Europe, and Oceania* could potentially have 1 district competition of their own, then travel to the US for a district competition here? With more competitions in local areas, it seems like the district system would be extremely helpful in growing FRC internationally. That's really cool.


*I imagine Canada and Israel could sustain multiple district competitions, and not need to travel internationally.

This could work well IF a single point system could be adopted. This has not been done yet. With NEFIRST coming to the table it is something FIRST HQ needs to look at.

Racer26 15-04-2013 11:08

Re: How does the Districts system work?
 
The advent of more and more districts coming online with the district model is going to force HQ's hand on the cross-pollination issue. Its going to start causing problems when you're significantly impacting international teams travelling.

We have a fairly large number of Brazilian, and Mexican teams now, with no regional event to call home. They often choose their regionals based on where it is cheapest for them to travel to: which usually means airport hub cities.

I won't be surprised if we see a Mexican or Brazilian regional (or both) in the relatively near future.

The Pacific Rim region is seeing similar expansion (Singapore, Australia) and their only option really is Hawai'i or big travel trips. A Singaporean team competed in Mississauga this year. That's crazy.

Joe Ross 15-04-2013 12:04

Re: How does the Districts system work?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosiebotboss (Post 1262114)
This could work well IF a single point system could be adopted. This has not been done yet. With NEFIRST coming to the table it is something FIRST HQ needs to look at.

A common point system is not necessary. What is necessary is a common awards system (which already exists) and sharing of information on alliance selection order. As long as the data exists to calculate a team's score using their home district's system, it doesn't matter how the event they went to calculates points.

Lil' Lavery 15-04-2013 13:16

Re: How does the Districts system work?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer26 (Post 1262122)
I won't be surprised if we see a Mexican or Brazilian regional (or both) in the relatively near future.

There was a Brazil (mini) regional in 2007 and 2008.

Siri 15-04-2013 13:36

Re: How does the Districts system work?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maldridge422 (Post 1262108)
So this would mean that international teams in areas like Latin America, Europe, and Oceania* could potentially have 1 district competition of their own, then travel to the US for a district competition here? With more competitions in local areas, it seems like the district system would be extremely helpful in growing FRC internationally. That's really cool.


*I imagine Canada and Israel could sustain multiple district competitions, and not need to travel internationally.

I'd hope they'd allow overseas international teams especially to opt out of a district or region championship if they so choose. Coming to the US three times--two on short notice--in nine weeks seems a bit much (district, region champs, worlds). Single-district plus region champ registration is already on the table for NEFIRST, and it makes a lot of sense for overseas travelers. It would allow an early US district and a home district and (if they do well enough on that standard) bypass region champs and have time to plan for Worlds. Basically what they do now, but with another event to practice/recruit/iterate/etc at "home". (Alternative is a more NEFIRST setup, with 1 home district, a guaranteed region championship and potentially Worlds, though it means very quick Worlds prep.)

PVCpirate 15-04-2013 14:15

Re: How does the Districts system work?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer26 (Post 1262122)
I won't be surprised if we see a Mexican or Brazilian regional (or both) in the relatively near future.

The Pacific Rim region is seeing similar expansion (Singapore, Australia) and their only option really is Hawai'i or big travel trips. A Singaporean team competed in Mississauga this year. That's crazy.

This year there were 9 teams that competed from Asia/the Pacific this season, 6 from Australia, and one each from China, Singapore and Taiwan, and all but two were rookies. In Australia it seems like there were several teams that organized but didn't compete this year, so we'll see how that growth continues next year.

In Mexico, we had 37 teams, most of which went to Texas or California to compete. That's already enough for a regional, so based on that one could reasonably expect a regional there in the near future. Many of those teams are from the area around Mexico City, so maybe a regional would go there, and teams closer to the border would probably continue coming to the US.

Brazil only has 6 teams right now and no rookies this year, so I don't see much happening there anytime soon. Of course I would think Mexico City is easier to do than anywhere in the US, so that could be an option if it happens.

asteb27 15-04-2013 17:55

Re: How does the Districts system work?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrielau23 (Post 1261950)
That sounds extremely intriguing. The only part I'm worried about is, as you noted, the lack of time to fix the major mechanical issues. 2537 this year didn't have any "major" mechanical issues, but I remember that during an offseason competition last year our silo tube (the large green tube in my profile picture) cracked in two. We fixed it with a lot of tape and glue, but I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have been able to do it within 15 minutes.

We do have 6 hours to take the robot out of the bag and work on it before each district event (though not for the regional). Also, if any mechanical issues arise, we typically have people working on them while the robot is on the field. Even if the robot is partially disabled, we can still help our alliance, and usually by the time we get back to the pits a working solution has been fabricated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery (Post 1261953)
Code issues are often harder to fix than mechanical issues. You'd be surprised how quickly you can get things done mechanically when under pressure. But you can't speed up the time it takes to deploy/build down to a cRio. And given that most teams prefer to test their code prior to taking the field, it's often a dealbreaker during short turnarounds.

Again, it is all about planning. We had many code issues, but we planned ahead and as soon as we lifted the robot off the competition field, we began deploying code and headed to the practice field to test it out. You get used to the fast pace very quickly.

Another thing to keep in mind, is with fewer teams, the practice field is open more of the time. We spent the majority of our time on it, to the point where the judges began looking for us there.

asteb27 15-04-2013 17:57

Re: How does the Districts system work?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DSM33 (Post 1261977)
The goal, if I remember correctly, is for the restrictions to competing only in your district to disappear once more district systems popped up around the country. This would allow teams to travel and have points earned at another district transfer over to the "home regional" (i.e. Bees traveling to MAR and having the points earned go toward FiM rankings). The district system isn't about limitations. It's about expanding the competition model to allow FRC to expand and grow in a more positive, competitive way.

I know FiM was pushing for not FiM teams to compete in their events, but FIRST would not allow it. I believe MAR also wishes for non district teams, as well as FiM teams, to compete in MAR events

gabrielau23 15-04-2013 23:45

Re: How does the Districts system work?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by asteb27 (Post 1262327)
We do have 6 hours to take the robot out of the bag and work on it before each district event (though not for the regional). Also, if any mechanical issues arise, we typically have people working on them while the robot is on the field. Even if the robot is partially disabled, we can still help our alliance, and usually by the time we get back to the pits a working solution has been fabricated.



Again, it is all about planning. We had many code issues, but we planned ahead and as soon as we lifted the robot off the competition field, we began deploying code and headed to the practice field to test it out. You get used to the fast pace very quickly.

Another thing to keep in mind, is with fewer teams, the practice field is open more of the time. We spent the majority of our time on it, to the point where the judges began looking for us there.

Sounds great! I'm confident that my team can work to fix it and adapt to the District time spacing if needed. We've got an awesome pit crew :D <3 <3 <3

Ivan Malik 16-04-2013 01:21

Re: How does the Districts system work?
 
This might not be the right place for this, but it's a thought I've had for a while...

Quote:

Originally Posted by asteb27 (Post 1262328)
I know FiM was pushing for not FiM teams to compete in their events, but FIRST would not allow it. I believe MAR also wishes for non district teams, as well as FiM teams, to compete in MAR events

Let me preface this with I would love to see the borders removed.

This perspective hasn't really been touched anywhere, to my knowledge, but the FiM district system was viewed as an experiment. It still is an experiment, not of the new system itself, but of the effects that the system has over a long period of time. When you're running an experiment you want as few things to change as possible. If you have teams from all over coming into these districts doesn't that ruin your chance for a long term study? One thing you have to remember is that HQ's goals don't necessarily match up with those of any single region. Could HQ have isolated MI so that it could see how the district system effected the cultural side of FIRST? Could it be using MAR as another case study, before it spreads every where?

I could be narrowing in on this because of my anthropological background, but is it possible that they are just being cautious about the new system changing the fundamentals of FIRST?


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