Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Once they're pushed into contact with the pyramid, there's a 20-point technical foul for intentional contact with a robot in contact with its pyramid--doesn't matter that they were pushed in. If the climber is deployed when they are pushed into the pyramid, it's reasonable to expect that they are attempting to climb, and thus they are now being interfered with while climbing, once the pyramid is contacted. Add in the 30-point climb bonus. Going by the rules as written, that's a reasonable call.

Whether or not it's been called that way all season doesn't matter--I seem to remember a set of matches where a robot's arm coming off under heavy defense didn't allow a game piece that it was attached to and was otherwise scored to score, flipping one match (no penalty given), then a few matches later a high-contact mutual hit that could have happened to anyone got a red card and disable. Hadn't been called that way all season.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

And there is the rub with this penalty system. The referees are being asked to judge the intentions of the drivers, not just the actions. Very rarely does a driver intentionally (purposeful is what the rulebook uses) contact another robot while they are contacting the pyramid, yet it was regularly called as a technical foul on Curie. I hadn't seen it called like that in previous regionals.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Can someone post the video or a link to this match. Also I think it was only a 20 pt Tech Foul, but that was still enough to throw the match to Red.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

I'll post our last match of the semi finals in a couple hours from now and post a link on this thread.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

It was 20 pt. technical foul + 30 point climb foul, so a total of 50 points, essentially.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Here is a link to a video of the technical foul of 967 on 148 on the pyramid. Judge it for yourself...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlswJ...ature=youtu.be

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Here's the famous hit: http://youtu.be/YlswJfhkrNQ. Judge by yourself.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Good call by the ref, clearly in contact and clearly interfering.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

I would think that it would be at most a 20 points technical foul since 967 did push them to the pyramid, but they were not in the process of climbing - the 30 points climb awarded to 148 was dubious.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Should not have been called interfering with a climb. Climbing requires contact with the pyramid. The only reason 148 was touching the pyramid was because they were pushed there. Since the contact with the pyramid was independent of the act of climbing (148 had to break contact with the pyramid to line up again to climb properly), it should have been a 20 point technical foul and red should have won.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

No, it should not have been just a 20-point foul.

First off, you are correct that it's a 20-point technical foul (purposeful and consequential being the reason).

However, you don't have to interfere with a climb to get the 30 tacked on. You just have to affect it. If you affect it (and I would consider that potentially breaking raised hooks and forcing a realignment is most certainly affecting a climb, thank you very much--don't believe me, I'll try it on you and ask if you were affected), then it's a technical foul plus 30.

148 was attempting a climb, their climb was affected, and in the process they contacted the tower. If they hadn't contacted the tower, no foul. If they hadn't been attempting a climb, 3-20 points in fouls. But they contacted the tower due to opponent action (though initiator of an action does not matter in this case), and their climb was affected after lining up had begun. When a climb begins--whether it's when you latch on or when you start lining up--is a matter of interpretation.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Just as background, my robot's climber DID get mangled by defence while going for a climb this year, resulting in us being eliminated from our only regional, so I definitely know how the folks on 148 would feel if 967's defence resulted in damage to their robot.

If the climb was truly affected, they should have also gotten a red card due to G27, no?
Since the 967 did not get assessed a red card, I take it to mean that the refs did not feel like the climb was affected, and so the climbing points should not have been awarded. And the refs on Curie were very clear that they knew what constituted a violation of G27 in the first finals match when the red alliance was disqualified due to that same rule.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

The pyramid was not touched by 967. G27 (and its associated penalties) therefore does not apply to this situation. G30, on the other hand, does apply, due to robot/robot contact when a robot contacts its own pyramid being a factor--and G30 does not have a provision for a red card.

If 967 had in fact contacted the pyramid, I would have expected at least another T-foul to be added on to the score, regardless of whether or not the climb bonus was applied.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

G27 does not state the exact method used to interfere with the pyramid. The use of the word "interfere" suggests that a robot can affect the opposing pyramid in other ways besides direct contact. I would say pushing another robot into the pyramid is one such way of initiating contact with the pyramid.

967 purposely (in the ref's eyes, hence the G30 violation) used 148 as means to contact the pyramid to create a momentary pin (otherwise that would have been a 3pt foul). That's both indirect (but not inconsequential) contact and interference with the pyramid (use of the pyramid in a way it was not supposed to be used: the "safe zone" rules surrounding the pyramid clearly shows that the pyramid is not meant to be used to pin robots). Again, the climb points awarded to 148 show that the refs felt that 148's climb was affected: under G27, 967 should have been given a red card as well for interference with the pyramid and affecting a climb.

When it comes to climbing, there's a lot of overlap between G27 and G30. If the refs were going to call one of these fouls, they should have called both. Since G27 was not called, I am left thinking that the climb bonus should not have been added for an affected climb.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Deleted content.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Can you please elaborate? What exactly happened?

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

This part I was discussing myself. Prior to this match I had only seen refs call a 20pt for something like this because the pushing robot had not directly affected their climb, because the climb had not started. I was shocked to hear when the ref had said that they consider lining up to the pyramid, as "in the act of climbing" and that we had affected their climb. Going with that explanation, couldn't my climb start when we raise our climbing device across the field on my way to climb?

If we had never broke contact with 148 during the push and they raised their climbing mechanism just before we pushed them into the pyramid, how should that be called? (I'm honestly interested in any opinions, I'm not trying to make a point)

In the end, most people I talked to believed that they would only tack on the 30pt climb credit if the opposing robot contacted them during a climb. I see a "climb" as a robot off the ground, a robot touching the ground isn't a "climb". In my eye we affected the lining up process of a climb, not the climb itself, but lining up fell into this refs definition of a climb, so that is why he gave the 50pt penalty.

As a driver I knew not to interfere with a climb, and I would have never done that if I had known what they considered a climb.

Lesson learned: stay away from the opposing pyramid.

Regardless of that call we had an amazing time at Championships this year, 2056 and 3990 were great partners as well. We were ecstatic to be able to play with you guys and are sad that we were only able to make it to the semi finals.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Not quite. We were obviously upset and looking for an explanation of the call. There might have been some raised voices and animated discussions but nothing more than that. Security and police were definitely not involved.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

I'm one of the drivers for 862 and our partner 148 did not have to be restrained down on the field after the red card what ended up happening was that after the redcard 4814 67 and 1918 appealed to the judges saying that there was no penalty and that their climb was not effected. This had no bearing on the judges call though. No student or mentor on the field had to be physically restrained. Both alliances played great and it was unfortunate the results of the first match. 4814 67 and 1918 are amazing competitors and I thank them for backing us up on this questionable call and acting with gracious professionalism. I would like to thank 1678 and 148 for being a great alliance. We had an amazing run with you guys.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Okay, misinformation I guess. I guess it looked different from people I talked to in the stands.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Unless something else happened away from the ref discussion and both alliances gathered near the field, there we no 148 members that needed to be restrained during this situation.

For everyone else, in F1 1918 fell off the tower from the 30pt level. The refs ruled that someone on the red alliance hit the tower, causing 1918 to fall. That is not what happened! We actually knocked off 1918, when we hit the top of the tower trying to get our hooks latched to pull up to level 3. When the decision to red card 1678, a student from 1918 was so upset that the call was incorrect that he passionately objected to the call. We had to stop him from approaching the head ref.

No one from either alliance wanted to see 1678 red carded. I believe we won that match without it, and wanted the scores to reflect the actual events of the match.

1678, 148, and 862 proceeded to out execute us enroute to a trip to Einstein in F2 and F3. All three teams were awesome in those matches and on the big stage.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Thanks for clearing that up.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Okay, I wasn't quite sure of the situation, I had just noticed that someone else had posted about it and I had heard similar. My mistake, that is why I deleted the post. Didn't mean any harm, I was interested in hearing the full story as well.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

And as I said...

G27 DOES NOT APPLY TO THIS SITUATION. Stop trying to confuse the issue.

G30 governs contact with a robot that is in contact with its own pyramid. G27 governs contact with an opponents pyramid. Do both of them contain a provision that if a climb is interfered with, the climb bonus is applied? Yes. Does that mean that if a climb is interfered with, both are triggered? No. That's like saying that an intentional tip in eliminations is the same as arriving with an uninspected robot in quals.

If they had called both fouls, this is the total foul points assessed: 40 points on two technicals, 30 points on a climb bonus (can't do two), and a red card. That's an awful lot for pushing a robot into its own tower, don't you think? And they'd have to come up with a far-fetched reasoning to apply G27 on top of G30--which you are doing--that wouldn't stand up under scrutiny and would cause quite a few questions. Both rules have their own penalties. It is quite possible to cause one without triggering a violation of the other.

The later penalty was called as a G27 (and according to the affected alliance, shouldn't have been called as anything). This one was called as a G30. Not the same call.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

This is from the perspective of one of 862's pit crew, not a driver or coach, but I did get a very close look at what happened in both the semi-finals and the finals.

In the semis, I doubt I need to explain what happened, and despite intentions, I knew the 50 point fowl would be called. I've seen that fowl been called at least twice and Michigan, but none so blatant. I'm not saying 967 intended to interfere with the climb, but they definitely pushed 148 too far, and incurred the penalty nonetheless.

I can't say I'm too happy about winning the semis on penalty points, but what happens happens. I apologize to the number 4 alliance for their misfortune, but a call had to be made all the same.

As for the red card incident, it was actually our team that incurred the red card. As a spectator down at the field, I saw our robot run over 1918's ground collector while they were touching the pyramid. One of the drivers told me he was pushed into 1918 when that happened, and in my opinion, our action had very little to do with their fall from the pyramid.

But: The refs needed to be consistent. They already called 967 on affecting the outcome of a climb, and since 1918 fell, they carded us on having caused it through the contact. Our main driver seemed pretty beat up about the whole thing, and seeing the opposing alliance argue in our favor was one of the best examples of gracious professionalism I've ever seen. I see little point to the red card because the number three alliance would have won without it. But it was a tough decision, and I applaud the refs for making a call, even if it was such an unpopular one.

Thank you to both the number 3, and 4 alliance members for being good sports about the whole situation.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

I think I can speak for everybody in saying both situations made curie division memorable for those involved this year.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

This is the whole semifinal 1-3 showing how great all 6 teams played.
the entire team of 967 would like to congratulate 1678,148, & 862 for there great performance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR39_...ature=youtu.be

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Just a quick note - assuming that each division, each year, has a 1/4 chance of winning everything (Obviously not true but simpler for math), the Curie Curse had ~3.2% chance of surviving.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Some thoughts. It'll be a long post.

Thanks to 2056 and 3990 for being great partners. Getting picked by 2056 in the first round was like winning the lottery - I did not see that coming.

Congratulations to 1678, 148, and 862 on winning the division and making it to Einstein - you guys deserved it.

Playing in the elimination rounds was really, really exciting. The quarters were all nail biters. Small things made a big difference. That alliance was extremely tough, and kudos to the alliance captain 1310 for putting themselves on my map as a pretty amazing team (I was ignorant of them previously, but I'm sure they're quite well known to everybody who's seen them in action before).

Here is my take on the semifinals. It was pretty obviously necessary for us to play defense on 148, because otherwise they score 100+ points on us. Even if we defend them, we end up letting points through and relying on allies to make up the difference. But defending 148 is pretty tough, because the defender is constantly riding a thin line between committing penalties versus allowing a bunch of points while not scoring any. It's a really tough job for a driver, and one has to react very quickly. Having watched our driver all year at three events, I can say that he has done a phenomenal job. Often enough I've watched other robots and wondered what the driver's plan was or if they have one. Our driver makes really fast decisions and has the skills to execute, and he can switch tactics very quickly as things develop. There have been some pretty impressive moments. Anyway, the defense on 148 was a really tough challenge, and he actually got the better of them in Match 1 (although they still scored a number of discs). He came pretty close to committing a foul at the end of that match, but he pulled off a clean late bump when they weren't yet touching the pyramid, costing them a bit more time. The difference between winning and losing was razor thing. In Match 2, 148 got around us early enough to get off the 40 point climb, and that was decisive. I can imagine that in Match 3 he didn't want to let that happen again. From the stands, we were really tense watching those last 40 seconds of the match after 148 loaded their red discs, knowing that it might be the difference. When the time clicked down to about 20 seconds and they hadn't started climbing, I starting to get pretty excited since it appeared we had it won. Then a few seconds later we saw that hit, and we were pretty sure we had just lost the match. Basically it was a driving error that cost us in the end, and I don't think that's any sort of insult to our driver, who was amazing all season long. Had we won, he would have had to try to walk the same tightrope with 67, and who knows what would have happened. It would have been fun to see. As for the foul call, I was not at all surprised by the 50 point call. I think it could have gone either way, but I don't fault the ref at all, and we put ourselves at the mercy of that call by putting on that late hit.

Getting picked by 2056 in a division that had been splintered by declines was a better situation than I could have imagined had I tried to dream up a best case scenario. Sometimes getting to Einstein seems like an impossible dream. Losing this chance on a penalty carried a pretty big sting, so it will take a little while for that to wear off. When it does, we will definitely look back on this season and know that it was our best yet. I wish we could have helped 2056 get their first win, especially after events last year that shall not be spoken of.

This season has been pretty grueling. We had a rough build season, focusing a TON of resources and energy on our 30 point climber. That includes all of our time right up to the KC regional. After a REALLY grueling KC event where we constantly reinvented the robot, we decided to abandon the climber. We were a pure cycler by the end of KC, installing the 10 pt climber for Minnesota. After catching a few breaks and winning in MN, we knew we needed more than a shooter and a 10 point hang to have a real shot at the Championship. So we upgraded to 2 speed drive and put the extending blocker on. It was quite a journey. Champs qualifiers were pretty amazing - most matches were quite close with lots of good allies and opponents. Even if we hadn't been picked, I would have been fairly satisfied with the event. All things considered, advancing to the semis for the first time and being on a great alliance was a really great prize for us. It makes us want to come back for more.

Now it's time to focus on some of the other burning issues, like how to get more funding, how to be more organized, how to recruit more girls, how to find more space, how to get more mentors, how to be more visible, and....

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

In semi 2-1 teams 1983-3539-2996
In semi 2-2 teams 1983-3539-1138
I feel sad for team 2996 to have come that far and be forced to with draw.
What happen to 2996 ?

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

I was on the arena floor next to the alliance pits behind the Curie field, attending to 399's bot as we were #4 in line in the backup pool.

2996 had issues in 2-1 with CAN and Jaguars. That incapacitated them and the alliance called the backup. As per tournament rules, 1138 Eagle Engineering, the highest ranked team not selected became their backup robot. Also as per tournament rules, team 2996 would not be allowed to continue play even if they were able to repair the situation.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

The Curie Curse had a 75% chance of surviving this year. The Curie Curse surviving this long has had a 3.2% chance of having happened.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

From what I was told by a friend of mine involved with 2996, they got rammed into the pyramid really hard in their last quarter final match and that mangled up their robot pretty bad, to the point where they couldn't continue.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

You guys played incredibly well, I was really impressed with your alliance, I feel really bad that so many matches were decided by penalty points but that's just how things played out and I hope we did a good job representing all of the incredible teams from the Curie Division on Einstein. You guys really gave us a run for our money.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

On behalf of team 1678, I would like to congratulate all of the great teams that competed in the Curie division this year. We had an amazing run and were honored to have made it to the Einstein stage.

Thank you to teams 148 and 862 for completing our awesome alliance. You are both a class act and worked flawlessly with us to execute the game strategy.

Also, a big thank you to all of the teams that competed against us in the elimination rounds. 103, 2168 and 4564 put up some strong resistance in the quarter finals and kept us on our toes. 2056, 967 and 3990 was a scary opponent to have to face in the semis. And 4814, 67 and 1918 took us through a roller-coaster of emotions in the finals.

I want to especially thank team 67 for your supportive comments about our alliance and for clarifying the incident that led to our red card.

It was a dream come true for our team to compete on Einstein and putting up the high score (233) for the Einstein matches was an added bonus.

Congratulations to 1477, 610 and 1241. Your alliance was a scoring machine and you thoroughly deserve to be crowned world champs.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

I concur with what Adam says. After review of the climb on our goPro camera We were not completely hooked at the top of the tower when 67 hit and the top of the tower. I do not think we would have fallen had the tower had not been hit. Also not sure we could have hung on with that hit if we had been hooked correctly. After the fall we all agreed that letting 67 get hooked before we went for the top rung was the best plan.
It was an honor to be picked and be able to play with 4814 and 67
Thanks to both of you for having the confidence to pick the 69th ranked team in the division.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Congratulations to 1678, 148, and 862 on getting a chance to play on FRC's biggest stage!

1678 - You guys went out there and earned a #1 seed in the division. We were really impressed with your teams ability to do it all. Even playing defense in certain matches, when paired with better scores. That ability to play to your alliances strengths was very inspiring for us. I was very suprised to see you declined that many times during alliance selection. It was obvious that this was a planned move (very smart/strategic), and your student representative was very calm going through it. We were hoping to get a chance to play with you. Our styles would have been a good mix for one another, since we have similar capabilities to 148. Hard to argue with the results though. We were under the impression you were selecting 1717 first, I assumed they were going to accept your invitiation. If I had known they would decline, we would have made our sales pitch much harder.

148 - Ah...our GREAT friends from Texas. What a blast it was to finally play in a division with you guys. I wish we hadn't had to play each other so many times, without ever getting to play together. I'm sure we could have made a double FCS alliance work pretty well. I think I was with at least one member of 148 about 70% of the time I was in St. Louis, either standing around watching matches or hanging out afterwards. We just had an awesome time hanging together.

I had lots of text conversations with JVN through the build season. I know he struggled a lot with how to build a climber to play this game (we shared similar pain). I'm glad that all the hard work paid off and your robot was able to pull of a climb on Einstein. It's the goal we all work towards!

862 - You guys have been awesome all season. I love the adaptation from super cycler to full-on FCS defender. If not for looking for a very specific type of machine to help our alliance, I'm sure you guys would have been very high on our list of teams to select. Awesome job this year! You guys were impossible to push out of position to get our shots off. Thanks for representing Michigan so well on Einstein.

Thanks to 4814 and 1918 for being great alliance partners.

4814 - You guys are one heck of a defender. You shut down 2056 enough to beat them in your qualification match and ranked above them. Your defensive prowess really showed when you compare the performances of 1717, 3539, and 148 with and without your defense on them. Especially to see the Curie champs go on to Einstein and put up 233 points. Incredible defenders! I can't say this was the alliance of my dreams, but we made the most of it. I honestly think we would have had a shot out there on Einstein, with your defense and our offense. I think they might of let us shoot...:eek:. I will be expecting great things from you guys in the future. You have the makings of another powerhouse Canadian team. Thanks for picking us, it was a fun while it lasted!

1918 - What a steal of a second pick. Since MSC I've wanted to do a double or triple climber alliance. We were so excited when you were available for us. I thought we could FCS + Climb our way there. You all worked so hard to keep that robot running correctly, especially after two falls off the pyramid. Just amazing how you were able to keep if shooting, driving, and climbing after all that. Unfortunately, we met our match with 862's drivetrain....at a certain point Shifter > Single speed. Not sure how you managed to get us a shooting lane in F1, but they must have learned what not to do after that. We've been trying to play together for years now. I'm glad we finally got the chance. Hopefully it will happen more in the future now.

67 - To my team....what an interesting season. Hold your heads high with your three silver medals. We gave it all we could! Thanks for working so hard on getting us a great machine to play with.

A couple of other shout outs.... 2056, we were so close I could taste it to getting a shot to play together. I guess third time is was not the charm. Fourth, maybe? You guys are awesome, #1 in Curie in our book. Keep it up, you'll get there! Congrats on an incredible season.

3539, our friends from MI. They are really bulldogs! They just keep working hard, cleaning up the floor and scoring discs. Congrats on a great machine and great season!

1717 - I always enjoy seeing you guys at Champs! Congrats on an incredible season.

-Adam

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Congratulations to 1678, 148, and 862 for a great run on Curie.
Awesome alliance.

Thanks to 1717 for the selection and to 135 for joing the alliance.

We all tried two approaches to shut down 67's FCS option, but the offensive-defense from 4814 was too much to overcome. Well executed plan.

Great weekend on Curie and congratulations to everyone on the field for the competition and to everyone working the field for keeping it moving so well.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Does anyone have video or audio of the award ceremony on Curie? If anyone does we would like to get a copy of it so we can show it to our sponsors because of RAS.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Thanks to 234 from our home state of Indiana and 1717 for making us apart of finals. It was great fun! We hope to work with both of you again, you are both great teams! We also can't wait to see 234 again in a few weeks at the Indiana State Champs, maybe we can play on the same alliance again ;)

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

A few Curie shout outs from Team 3824....

Team 67 - I was coach of a FLL team years ago that qualified for the "World Festival" in Atlanta. Staying in the same hotel was this huge team of HOT high school kids. My kids and I talked to a number of the students and mentors at the hotel. It was our first exposure to FRC. We were all extremely impressed and I've been a fan of Team HOT ever since. So, I was excited when I saw that we were in the same division this year.
Your robot was extremely impressive and it was great to be able to meet some of your team in the pits.

Team 359 - Very exciting match against your team, with your alliance winning 152-141. After the match, one of your mentors came up to members of our drive team and complimented them on their play. Very cool, very classy.
We got banged pretty good that match, and unfortunately did not realize that our gyro came unplugged until our next match Saturday morning, where in autonomous mode we spun in circles for a while and then launched three frisbees up into the crowd. Oops! :)

Team 1310 and 1684 - It was great playing with you in the elimination rounds. Thanks so much to Team 1310 for the invite - I believe that the 231 points we put up together in the qualifications remained the high score on Curie.

Team 16 - Your ground pickup was fantastic. We loved having the chance to play a match together.

Teams 2056, 967 and 3990 - You guys were dominating. I was rooting for you after you took us out, and was disappointed how things ended for you.

Team 4814 - You were an amazing defensive force. The match we played together with you in qualification was awesome. Great strategy, well executed. You went undefeated and took home too many awards for your alliance captain to hold onto - what an incredible display you put on!

And finally, major congrats to the Curie champs of 1678, 862, 148!! We were of course all rooting for you on Einstein.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Thank you for the compliments! You are correct that we had planned for those teams to decline us in order to break up the power team alliances that would have otherwise been formed.

I actually really wish that you had come and talked to our other head-strategist (I am the other) because you were actually the first team on our list that we expected to accept, which essentially made you our first actual pick. However, after you lost your last qualification match our other head-strategist switched you and 148 at the top of our list which I disagreed with since I thought your performance was just a fluke mistake. I agree that we would have made a great alliance which is why I was extremely nervous facing you in the finals, however I'm extremely proud of 148's performance and I don't regret picking them one bit, they played killer offense and carried our alliance further than I could ever hope for.

I was also incredibly impressed by 4814, coming out of Curie in 3rd seed as a rookie team is unheard of, I really thought you guys were going to take the Curie curse to it's grave with your phenomenal teamwork with 67 and 1918. A rookie team captaining an alliance to win Einstein and break the Curie curse would have gone down as a legendary moment in history, and the best part is that it actually almost happened, I really thought you guys were going to take home the gold.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

http://youtu.be/5_khdRfl11w

Curie Finals Match 1-3 of the 2013 FIRST World Championship
Red - FRC1678 FRC148 FRC862
Blue - FRC4814 FRC67 FRC1918
Score: Red 0 - DQ Blue 186
@1:23 862 runs over the collector of 1918 while they are setting up to climb
@1:43 67 and 1918 Tower Climbing and 1918 falls

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

I will point out that we had this exact situation happen to us in a semifinal at Central Valley with our alliance contacting a robot about to climb from behind and driving them into the pyramid. At first the referee DQd our alliance, but then corrected the call to the 20 pt penalty plus 30 pt climb. We lost the match then. The interpretation in this semi was consistent with the interpretation in that regional in every way.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

To reiterate on Jake's comment, the choice between 67 and 148 was very difficult, and we could have been swayed. On the other hand, 148 was amazing.

Truly more amazing to us was that 862 was still available. I believe they were literally our top pick (I don't have our list here) for our 2nd robot because of their driving skills combined with offensive output. We had our ground pickup, 862's cycling and 148's FCS. Hard to beat.

We gamed out the draft with the "power" teams declining, and we expected that 1983 (later confirmed--my nephew was on their team 2 years ago) would do the same thing. Given that the "punishment game" seemed fairly likely, we thought that one of those teams would recognize the situation and accept our offer instead--the optimal solution to the punishment game is to cooperate.

The whole experience was very exciting and rewarding. We got functioning an electronic scouting system that communicates using cell phone lines to a server and then to an iPhone app used by our drive team. The entire system was built by the students with no real technical assistance from mentors. I only gave them what data should be collected at the front end, and what the data summary should look like at the back end. We're interested in a shareware development process to further enhance its functionality.

But there was one additional "superpower" that we had--Mike Corsetto. His insights and analysis during the strategy session was key to our selection rankings. Jake also was a huge contributor. The quantitative data helped tremendously, but it still took the human factor.

Also, having my brother in law's team, 1983 Skunkworks finish right behind us in qualifying could not be more exciting. My sister was able to watch both of us succeed beyond anything before. Thanks to the Skunks for adding to our meager team at Einstein!

4814 assembled an "optimal" alliance. I'm sure that they supplemented what we shared to get 1918, which turned out to be a perfect partner in a defense/climb oriented alliance.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

We thought they might decline us the night before in our strategy session. We got some confirmation just before the draft. We didn't talk to 148--we were trying to decide between them and 67 right up to the end--tough choice! We knew that 1983 would finish the job if one of other teams accepted us. (We had talked with them--I sat with the Skunks much of the weekend.) Our team captain was in no way disturbed by the outcome.

But as an economist, I'll say that the correct response to a "punishment game" generally is cooperation. John Nash didn't win the Nobel for nothing.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

1678 knew we had lost that match before the penalty was awarded. That alliance was amazing and fit together almost perfectly.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

It was me who came to talk to you folks.
I personally raved about how awesome you were to members of 67, 148, 3539, 987, 33, and many many others.
I can't believe I never heard of your team before, because your machine was up there like the other great shooting machines.
The fact that you were a 3D printed bot made it more impressive!
I just got 2 new machines and look forward to incorporating more if the technology into components of our future robots.

Thanks again for inspiring us.

-Glenn

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Wow without a doubt this has been the most exciting competition I have been a part of. Our expectations for the weekend were blown away by what happened!

Thank you to our truly amazing alliance partners 1678 Citrus Circuits and 148 Robowranglers!

1678 you guys earned a well deserved #1 seed and your alliance selection strategy was brilliant! You assembled a very well balanced alliance between your floor pick up 148's FCS and our cycling and defense. Thank you for having faith in our abilities and selecting us (we were getting very nervous that we would go un-selected). And thank you for sticking by us after two technical problems in QF1-1 and QF1-2, I feel terrible were were unable to help in those matches.

148 you guys were an amazing full court shooter, not to mention that climb (scary but effective)! Getting to work with you guys was a true honor your level of preparation, strategy, gracious professionalism are truly inspiring! We learned a lot from you guys on what it takes to make it through a Championship elimination tournament.

A huge thank you to all the individuals who came to help try to diagnose and fix our control problems in the quarterfinals, I didn't catch names but I know there were several guys from California teams as well as from 148.

To all of our opponents in the eliminations 103, 4564, 2168, 2056, 967, 3990, 4814, 1918, and 67 you were all extremely strong alliances it was an honor to play against you all.

As for Finals 1 I really don't know what to say. Watching the video posted above we did clearly drive over 1918's collector. I say this with all my heart that we are truly sorry about that, this was NOT an intentional move, we honestly couldn't see their collector there. It was an error on our part and as coach I take full responsibility for it. Thank you to 1918, 67 and 4814 for being so gracious after the indecent I hope you will accept my deepest apologies for this happening.

1918 you guys are an amazing team, twice this year you have given us a run for our money in the finals, first at West Michigan then on Curie.

67 as always you produced an absolutely amazing machine! You guys are a team I been in awe of my entire time in FRC. Adam thanks for your kind words above, it was truly a pleasure to play against you in the divisional finals!

4814 an amazing job by an amazing rookie team congratulations on all your success and good luck next season!

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

That your team was still available for us was truly amazing--you should have gone much higher in the draft! We were overjoyed to have you on our team. The roles you played were tremendous. I've watched our first semi final in Einstein several times and how we dominated was amazing. If we hadn't had shut down in the second match, who know what would have happened! Thanks so much.

BTW, if 862 did drive over 1918's collector, the correct penalty should be the same as 2056's alliance incurred in the semifinal--a 20 point technical and a 30 point climb rather than a DQ. Either way however, it would not have changed the outcome.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Does anyone have vidoes of the Curie qualification or eliminations matches?

I can't seem to find very many on youtube....and none that we were in.

If so, can you please upload them and/or post a link.

Thanks,
Adam

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Thanks so much to our amazing alliance partners, 1678 and 862. It was a real pleasure getting to work with an alliance that worked so well together!

To 1678 - what an amazing job, you really turned it up to 11 in the eliminations! I knew you guys were good, but you took it to a whole new level all afternoon. Thanks so much for giving us the honor of being the #1 selection, and all the great matches and memories that came with it. I really enjoyed re-watching some matches and seeing how you guys would sneak right in and steal discs right in front of our opponents faces! And special thanks to Mike Corsetto, it was great to get to work with you again after some great matches at SVR!

862 - I couldn't believe we were able to get you guys so late in the draft! You were able to fill so many roles so well - blocker, defender, additional scorer. That versatility and great driving really helped us construct a winning strategy.

Thanks again to both of your teams - it was a great run, and gave our team some memories we'll never forget!

Also, thanks to some of our opponents: 2056 - for some real nailbiter matches out there. It was probably the toughest, most fiercely fought series I've been a part of in 13 years. It could have easily gone the other way, and I loved getting to match up against you guys.

67 - Oh to have gotten to play with you just once! We had 4 amazing matches against y'all, and every one was a battle. It was fun to go against another team that made (almost) as crazy of design decisions as us ;) Maybe at IRI we can finally get that double-FCS match together!

And to everyone else in the division - what a weekend! It was a battle every single match out there, from start to finish, and thanks to everyone for raising the level of competition and some unforgettable matches.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Michael Corsetto is one of the coolest guys I have ever met in FRC, and a great competitor. I had no idea he was with you guys at CMP, but it seems like his and your team would work really well together (too bad it didn't play out quite as we all hoped at SAC).

Did he help you out at all during build season?

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

I have been with the NC Gears since their start in 2006, and haven't missed a single one of our matches - that is until the last half of CMP, including the elimination rounds. What's worse, I didn't have access to the webcast, so I had to rely on telephone updates, and I still haven't been able to see most of the matches. It sounds like I missed a lot of great matches on Saturday afternoon. It was very difficult for a guy like me. By next year most of us won't remember who beat who in what match, but we will all remember the highs and lows, the comeraderie, the productive stress, the perpetual sense of urgency, and (if you were an NC Gear) the bus ride home (except for me because I had to leave early and had a pleasant road trip). It is indeed a priveledge to be part of FIRST and to go to CMP. Never take it for granted.

Congratulations to 1678, 148, and 862. The whole was better than the sum of the parts, and the parts were each very tough! It was good to see 862 again - in a gracious loser sort of way.

Thanks to 4814 and 67. 4814 - We never saw you in quals and I had no idea who you were. Obviously you earned every bit of your way to the #3 seed by beating some of the powerhouse teams on Curie. It was an honor to be on your alliance. 67 - It was great to be allied with you at last. We have always considered you to be one of our role models - whether on the field, off the field, or in your approach to creating robots that effectively play the game.

And as for the DQ match, I don't think anybody thinks it was deserved. Fortunately, it didn't have any effect on the ultimate outcome. As it turns out, it was little more than an opportunity for competitors to come together in agreement on something. FIRST is a great environment for that sort of thing.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

I'm still trying to process what happened last weekend. Wow, what a ride!

148 - I was overjoyed when we got to your team on our pick list. I've never had the pleasure of working with you before this year, and to partner with y'all back-to-back at SVR and CMP was a real treat. You have the deepest mentor team I've ever worked with, Jeff, Kevin, Colin, Ricky, Adrienne, Jay, and all the mentors were amazing! And your students are really a top-notch bunch, focused, committed and hugely invested in the program. Consider me your #1 fan after this weekend. Also, I'll be in Dallas this weekend. I'm hugely tempted to try to get over to Greenville ;)

862 - Like has been said a gazillion times already, how were you available as the last pick in the draft?!? I remember inspecting your robot early Thursday morning and being impressed by the build quality and simplicity of your machine. Getting to talk with a few of your students and mentors even before Saturday afternoon, it became obvious that your team is made up of some of the most Gracious people in FIRST. In strategy sessions, your willingness to do just about anything asked of you was inspiring. Not to mention you did everything extremely well! Thanks for rounding out our dream alliance.

1717, 1310, 2056, 67, 1983, 359, 3539 - You all inspire me immensely. I loved having so many awesome teams in Curie, it meant less of a commute to see a bunch of amazing robots :D We did have a fairly advantageous qualification schedule, and that meant being to play on the same side of the glass with quite a few of you. Thank you for continuing to hold a level of excellence that myself and my students strive towards. 1717 especially, I love your team. The seniors every year are a joy to talk to. I know at least one of your seniors is going to UC Davis next year, I told her to look into helping out 1678 ;) Go Ags!

1678 - I am so unbelievably proud of you all! I don't even know where to start. Each student stepped it up a notch at CMP. The entire team was focused and efficient, debugging issues and making fixes on the fly. I think there were at least three mechanical failures during Saturday afternoon that would take any normal person an hour to fix, but because of careful planning and ridiculously talented students, the robot was up and operational at the start of every match. The mentor base that you are building is growing every year, and I'm excited for what that means for the years to come! Steve, thanks for everything you have done for 1678. You haven't missed a beat since I graduated, and it shows with where the team is now. Keep it up, friend!

Lastly, thank you 1678 for the honor of having me with your pit and drive team on Einstein. It was an unreal experience that I won't forget anytime soon.

DampRobot, to answer your question, I mentored 1678 through college, and have tried to stay involved where I can since graduating in 2011. Luckily, 1662 takes Sunday's off, so I was able to visit 1678 many weekends while maintaining my responsibilities as Lead Mentor of 1662. However, I had very little involvement with the design of 1678's incredible machine, I mostly showed up for moral support and as another person to bounce ideas off of. They are an incredibly talented team with a lot of momentum moving forward!

-Mike

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Thanks for all the great things you said about our team Mike.

It was such a pleasure having you with us to help with organization and strategy. Working with you and seeing our team go so far at CMP almost makes up for the disappointment in Davis.

You are truly a FIRST guru and you have made many teams better with your leadership and knowledge. 1678 would not be where we are today without your help. Good luck in finding a job next year and, if that job brings you back to Davis, we look forward to working with you again.

Re: 2013 Championship Curie Division
 

Try this channel. I know you're in several there (pushing us to the edge... ;^) )
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...a8NpaPO9C8KIHT