Re: VEX Robotics Expands Into Elementary With Launch Of VEX IQ
 

Then they're not doing it right. ;) There's nothing low-level about FLL, imo; that's one of the attractions. There are challenges there for adults; 8th graders have plenty to think about. And remember, outside the US & Canada FLL goes to age 16. If you're at CMP stop by the FLL pits & take a look at what some of the World teams come with. There are some very sophisticated robots. And it's cheaper -- and easier to transport -- than even FTC for those high school age kids.

It would be hard to do this; that first "L" in FLL stands for "LEGO". :] I'm sure FIRST could come up with a nice, new, name, but LEGO works great for the intended audience; I don't see any compelling reason to ditch it.

I took at look at the VEX IQ kits this morning & am quite impressed. They have some definate advantages over LEGO Mindstorms; two of the biggies that immediately stood out to me are:
1) The ability to hook 12 devices to the controller, with no restriction on what device goes where. Mindstorms is limited to 3 outputs & 4 inputs, although the soon-to-be-available EV3 adds a 4th output. Which still isn't close to the VEX IQ controller.
2) Price. The kit itself is basically the same price, but some of the additional VEX IQ parts are FAR less expensive. $20 vs. $60 for a rechargeable battery; $5 vs. $18 for a touch sensor. The motors are about the same price, though.

Statements like "supports event programming to simplify software" on the sensors intrigue me. If that means what I think it means that's another advantage to add over Mindstorms & NXT-G. I don't know about EV3, yet, so this might be moot.

One minus was the field elements & field itself. Just the elements for the 2013-14 game are more expensive ($100) than the FLL field kit ($75) and $200 for a "full field perimeter and tiles" seems hideously expensive. You can build an FLL table for around $50. If you're doing this for a non-competition STEM program this part really won't matter, of course.

I've got too much investment in FLL & LEGO to switch over (my play money this summer is going to an EV3), and there are no tournaments anywhere close to us. But it looks like it has great possibilities, and if this stirs up some competition with LEGO -- resulting in better products & prices for both companies -- then that's a Very Good Thing.

Re: VEX Robotics Expands Into Elementary With Launch Of VEX IQ
 

Why is the half field kit and full field kit listed at the same price?

http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexiq/products/228-2550.html

http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexiq/products/228-3051.html

Re: VEX Robotics Expands Into Elementary With Launch Of VEX IQ
 

Launch error - got that fixed now.

Thanks,
Ricky

Re: VEX Robotics Expands Into Elementary With Launch Of VEX IQ
 

Honestly, I think that the price is worth it for the field. I'm fairly certain the field basics will be used over and over. Of course, don't forget that these kits are modular, which makes transportation super easy.

My team is not particularly invested in FLL, but our region is dense with FLL teams. We'd like to inject some VIQ teams into our region, but FLL might simply be too rooted for VIQ to succeed.

- Sunny G.

Re: VEX Robotics Expands Into Elementary With Launch Of VEX IQ
 

FLL = FIRST LEGO League

I don't think you can do FLL with the Vex IQ because the name would have to change :]

At first glance, I am excited about the Vex IQ as another tool to help teach the kids robotics. I am interested in seeing the programming software. That will be a large determining factor in the effectiveness of younger kids being able to program a robot.

I don't see the hardware platform as an advantage or disadvantage to LEGO Mindstorms except that kids are generally familiar with LEGO pieces and there is an extensive pallet of pieces available to build your robot.

I am a mentor to support the kids. The platform isn't that meaningful to me as long as the kids can use it effectively to achieve their goals.

Play well,
Bryan

Re: VEX Robotics Expands Into Elementary With Launch Of VEX IQ
 

** DISCLAIMER ** The lead designer on the Vex IQ project was my son. It's nice to finally see what he has been working on since joining IFI. I'll check the proud father here. The rest of this post will only be my observations and personal opinions will be kept in check. :D

My wife and I were asked to referee on the then Vex pilot fields (now Vex IQ) at the Vex World Championships. I was head referee on the main fields and Joy was lead referee on the Vex IQ skills fields.

- Robust Robots. The first thing that impressed us about the new system was the robustness of the robots the students built. One of the things that has been missed in the early conversations about this product is that the Vex IQ system was designed for full 3D assembly. Those that have built LEGO robots know it can be challenging to get good cross reinforcing and these robots love to shed parts occasionally. Very few robots lost parts during over 350 qualification matches! Most could have avoided losing parts with a little more work strengthening some parts subjected to higher moment forces.

- Driver Control. Here is where LEGO needs to step up their game. The students LOVED being able to drive their robots. This is usually where the middle school students start looking to move on from FLL to FTC, VRC, and FRC.

- Object Manipulation. While the pilot Vex IQ robots were using standard Vex tank tread, the production Vex IQ will have their own tank tread/conveyor system which is very similar. I watched dozens of robots with tank tread intake and delivery systems easily handling the tennis balls used in the pilot game. At least three robots were capable of collecting and scoring all 18 tennis balls on their side of the field in a single attempt. I'm not sure if the same could be accomplished with a LEGO robot as elegantly or efficiently.

- Ease of Use. I believe the pilot teams only had about five weeks to build these Vex IQ robots to play the pilot game. As with any competitive robots program, the robots varied from fairly simple to awesomely complex machines. It was amazing to see the quality of machines built in a limited amount of time. I was not able to gauge how many teams had prior LEGO experience, but clearly the students took to the new system easily.

- Durability. LEGO has been around for years and has that real world testing to back up the durability or lack there of. We will see how Vex IQ stands up over the next few seasons.

- Cross Compatibility. I did not have the opportunity to test for cross compatibility between Vex IQ and LEGO bricks. I suspect that when people start playing with both systems we'll learn of some ingenious ways people find to use both systems together. Whether this is ever allowed in competitive robots will yet to be determined, but for summer camps, demonstrations, and other public educational uses, I'm sure we'll figure out how to leverage both platforms together.

- Software. This will be determined once we get to work with the software offerings, but the demonstrations were very impressive and encouraging.

- Classroom Curriculum. Project Lead the Way at the elementary level. Awesome. Vex IQ is will have full classroom curriculum support through PLTW, Carnegie Mellon, and Autodesk. Catching students imaginations earlier in their education will be key to changing the world. FIRST needs to step up their game in this arena.

- The Game Format. This new format was received very well by all students that participated. Two robots on the field at the same time. One red. One blue. Sounds familiar, but the two robots are the alliance. They score cooperatively throughout the match. There is a subtle way for a team to score a few points more than their alliance partner, but it doesn't cause a non-cooperative environment during match play. Even when a team of much older middle school students were allied with a much younger team of elementary school students they worked as a team and the older students didn't try to tell the younger students what to do.

- Research Project. We did not get to see the research project or speak to any of the judges so I have little to share on this subject. Students will be keeping and being judged on their engineering notebooks just like the other levels of Vex robotics, and they will have an engineering project which is similar to the FLL research project. This makes both programs fairly similar and beneficial to the students.

- The Playing Field. It has been point out that the new Vex IQ playing field will have a higher initial investment cost than the FLL field. It has also been pointed out that the new Vex IQ field is extremely portable. The pieces break down into 12" square tiles and side walls are 12" long pieces. They will fit into two boxes that would easily fit into a compact car or a classroom closet. How many of you have tried to transport and/or store a FLL playing field? How about enough fields for a large state-wide event? This new system should be much friendlier to tournament organizers. Since playing fields tend to be a one time purchase, this is probably a minor problem. Price to FLL. Storage and transport to Vex IQ. Durability TBD.

- Game Specific Components. This will be determined over the next few seasons. Again I think price goes to FLL but storage, transport, and set up go to Vex IQ. Again, this is a once per year investment, and the cost is offset by Vex IQ's lower team registration fees.

- Team Fees. Price goes to Vex IQ. as mentioned above, if you support several teams this is a big cost savings and would offset the cost of the playing fields and components, and also allows teams to add to their Vex IQ robot parts inventory.

- Conclusion. Is one system better than the other? That is yet to be determined. What is clear is that competition has come to this level of competitive robots. That is a good thing. As we all know, competition helps all of us end users. Lower prices. Better products. Better support and services. We will all be winners (especially the students) with competition. Since we as a community are barely scratching the surface of how many students we are reaching, this will open up competitive robots to many more students.
Win. Win. Win.

Re: VEX Robotics Expands Into Elementary With Launch Of VEX IQ
 

In my opinion, this looks to be better at preparing students for FTC/VEX/FRC than FLL currently does. I'm actually trying to recommend this to some elementary schools in our district to see how things go. Hopefully, this turns out to be a winner, as Hazelwood school district keeps improving the base around the flagship FRC teams 2408 and 1985.

Re: VEX Robotics Expands Into Elementary With Launch Of VEX IQ
 

Was it a fun game to watch?

Re: VEX Robotics Expands Into Elementary With Launch Of VEX IQ
 

Is there any video of the pilot matches? This is so cool!

Re: VEX Robotics Expands Into Elementary With Launch Of VEX IQ
 

VEX IQ Pilot video match
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCHqpTKnOE0