Re: 2014 Game
 

I'd like to see a stacking game with multipliers that aren't incorporated into the actual game pieces being stacked, and I'd also like to see the same game have an endgame form in which teams must heavily interact with each other to accomplish the endgame. And to increase robot on robot interactions, it would be cool to have a coopertition component and having the rules allow heavier defense than in the past 2 years. And preferably no safe zones.

Re: 2014 Game
 

I would like it if the robots could actually expand next year instead of just being limited to a 54" cylinder (or similar)

Re: 2014 Game
 

It'd be nice to see some variations from the 27'x54' rectangle. Even though I know it won't happen, I'm still crossing my fingers to hear the words "This year's game will be played on a circular field with a radius of 27sqrt(2/π) feet..." at kickoff.

Re: 2014 Game
 

Maybe these :D

http://youtu.be/i0m8VtWesgw
http://youtu.be/e-nZeqnnEEQ

Sorry -- couldn't help myself

Re: 2014 Game
 

it would be cool should have an elevated floor for the robots

Re: 2014 Game
 

Robots playing poker...?
No? Didn't think so...

Re: 2014 Game
 

It might actually be pretty realistic. An alliance is shown two cards at the beginning of a match, and there are feeder stations where you have to feed in large cards, in order of the deck, and you have to try to score as many poker combinations as possible, but other teams are allowed to descore, and use them to score on their own racks. Kind of like Triple Play, but with Poker instead of Tic Tac Toe.

Re: 2014 Game
 

Robotic Billiards or Bumper Pool?

The alliances have 3 robots each- one could move the cue ball to the right spot, one plays defense on the other alliance, the other hits the cue ball? 2 alliances going at once, first to knock in 5 balls wins? (That is for billiards... I'm not sure how bumper pool would work).

Or maybe Robotic Ping-Pong!

Re: 2014 Game
 

Yes!

Now just raise the field up 10 feet...

Re: 2014 Game
 

The underside could be like an actual billiards table with tubes and such for the balls to roll through!

It'd save field reset a lot of time as they wouldnt have to pick up pieces from everywhere about the field!

Re: 2014 Game
 

Why not? :)

http://www.team987.com/the-dealer-shines/

Re: 2014 Game
 

Just to put it out there, in the future I think it would be interesting to have a flying game. Give the robots launch points, manipulatable field elements, and robots are disabled if they touch the ground.

Bear in mind however that FRC would need vastly cheaper and more efficient parts to facilitate something of this magnitude but it would be interesting. Either that or more sponsor donations to teams. Maybe it would wok better for FTC...

Regardless, I had to put this out there after seeing the ideas get wierder and wierder, hence justifying my wild idea.

Re: 2014 Game
 

FYI: Your username is perfect for this thread.

Re: 2014 Game
 

Ahem.

Re: 2014 Game
 

Hmmm... that's intereseting
Regardless, any thoughts on my flying game? It is rather unoriginal I agree but it would be interesting to watch.

Re: 2014 Game
 

I was thinking the same thing.

Yours too, although slightly less obvious.

Re: 2014 Game
 

What about the ornaments FIRST gave out at Championships for attending the Finale? Seems a bit random and not like FIRST to do. Maybe it's a game hint?

Re: 2014 Game
 

What were they?

Re: 2014 Game
 

Anybody got money on a water game?

I got my money on a water game. Think about it, the regular pushing, kicking, throwing, putting on pegs is getting old and older more experienced teams have a huge advantage. Granted they will always have somewhat of an advantage, but no frc team has done a water based game, in theory this could put more teams on the same playing field. And besides I think a water game is far overdue, were ready for a new element :)

Re: 2014 Game
 

Or they could throw a new version of the Hybrid mode at us. Since the xbox one was announced for labor day weekend that plenty of time for FIRST to start putting the new kinect in the KOP. Plus microsoft is a sponsor of FRC

Re: 2014 Game
 

I am really surprised that we have managed to get 9 pages into this discussion without 30 people suggesting a water game. Oh wait...

Re: 2014 Game
 

Oddly enough, a few members of my team decided earlier this year that in the event of a water game, they would name the robot after me.

Re: 2014 Game
 

Dodge ball any one?

Re: 2014 Game
 

this would be very awesome but i kind of doubt it will be a shooting game next year after two in a row

Re: 2014 Game
 

A great way to cheaply implement a water game is to have minibots that have to swim underwater.

Re: 2014 Game
 

Here's something interesting. The dean's list winners were given glow in the dark tape measures and were told that they were a game hint. To get into the science center, you got a glow in the dark bracelet.

Re: 2014 Game
 

And the new kinect will work in the dark. Hmmmm.

It would be neat to have a game with blacked out driver stations and you had to use a video stream.

Re: 2014 Game
 

A glow-in-the-dark game would be very cool.
Also, keeping with the winter olympics idea....
What if we had a field with a hill on it and the robots had skis?
Robots would ski down the hill (the hill would preferably have moguls) and would pick up a game piece. Then they would climb back up the hill. Points are given for how high you climb back up.

Re: 2014 Game
 

Can we mess with gravity? Please please please???!!!!

Re: 2014 Game
 

We did. We don't speak of that year anymore.


*2009 Okay, so we didn't actually mess with gravity as that's fairly hard to do, at least cheaply. We modified the coefficient of friction to simulate the lack of gravity. Close enough.

Re: 2014 Game
 

2009 :)

Re: 2014 Game
 

See, I told you we don't talk about that year. :p

Thanks for catching that though. Fixed it. xD

Re: 2014 Game
 

I talked about this earlier, but it seems FIRST tends to skew the game one way or another (probably unintentionally) with the points.

2010's endgame was way too difficult for what it scored (IIRC, it was 2 points if you hung on your own, 3 if you hung off another robot, versus 1 point for each soccer ball scored). 2011 was the opposite end of that spectrum, where pretty much everyone agreed the minibots were WAYYYYYYYY too many points.

I think 2012 hit a happy medium; you cared about the primary scoring element and you could, in theory, bury an alliance under the weight of the basketballs, but the endgame also mattered a large portion of the time. It also helped that with the automated scorer that year, teams knew exactly what had to happen in the end game to achieve a given result.

This past year, was again, close, but an argument can be made that the pyramid scoring is off - whether you are in the 10 is too much or 30 isn't enough camp, something about the pyramid was off. Otherwise, I think the game was fairly balanced.

This coming year? Who knows, (oh wait, the GDC), but what I can tell you is that they've gotten better in recent years about getting scoring right and not completely devaluing a certain part of the game. I hope they have a game where they can use the high speed laser receivers again and avoid the debacle with 2013's *cough* "Automated" Scoring System.

</walloftext>

Re: 2014 Game
 

If any of these ideas are right I sincerely think that FIRST should send that guy a plaque unless it a water game in that case send every team a medal

Re: 2014 Game
 

I feel like that wouldn't fly for safety reasons. What if your camera broke and you were blindly driving around a 120lb machine at high speeds?

Re: 2014 Game
 

How about a Hybrid Hockey-Pinball game? it would at least be fast-paced and original.

Re: 2014 Game
 

I really think that dodge ball would be unique, and cool. Teams could be required to put a strip of reflective tape above their bumpers, there would be a line in the middle of the field that no one can cross until the last thirty seconds of the game. Human players can through balls in the end game as well. Also there is something like in empty sells from 2009. This wold push the great teams to make small but effective robots.

It would also be cool to have a game with two types of projectiles such as pucks and frisbees. Although i doubt. That they'll have another throwing/shooting game for a while.

Re: 2014 Game
 

Also, there needs to be a game with ping pong balls soon.

Re: 2014 Game
 

I'm putting my money on an arm game, descoring, and an easy endgame. Possibly an endgame that translates to the teleop mode. Meaning if you're good in teleop, you will be good at the endgame, like zone scoring or something.

Re: 2014 Game
 

I feel like golf balls are more likely considering how fragile ping pong balls are, unless that was part of the challenge, but on the other hand they are much cheaper

Re: 2014 Game
 

There was recently an off-season event here in the north west that involved up to 700 ping pong balls. There were many ping pong balls destroyed, but they were cheap enough that the hosting team replaced any broken ones between matches. The game involved shooting the ping pong balls at other robots. This would have to dangerous with golf balls.

Re: 2014 Game
 

A water game would be cool.

Re: 2014 Game
 

@Bryce: Holla! Yeah ping pong balls were great for us because they were cheap and easily available, plus you NEVER had to worry about running out in a match. My one concern with using them in an FRC game would be just that so many of them break, and they're a nightmare to clean up (our carpet still has pieces ground in).

Re: 2014 Game
 

Sorry for joining the party so late. My thoughts:

Water Game: Ain't gonna happen. How many regional venues have pools?How many schools have pools that they'd be willing to devote to robotics? What kind of clean-up is required when various lubricants spill / leak, or when bits and pieces fall off?

Shooting Game: Agreed, we've thrown a lot of things in recent years, time for a break. (Unless, as some suggested, we tie this in with the Olympics, and have a biathalon game -- with REAL shooting! :ahh: )

Stacking Game: My personal favorite, although it should be noted that Stack Attack in 2003 came so dreadfully close to BattleBots that the GDC is probably hesitant to repeat this. Stacking (or even "building"?) could be very cool, though.

Dodge Ball / Laser Tag: Potentially interesting, but A) how do you detect hits? Wouldn't this be a bit boring to watch?

Poker: VERY cool from the building / programming standpoint. But again, boring to watch?


Okay, let's combine ideas: Robots have to build a house of cards? :cool:

Re: 2014 Game
 

Simple: I would STOP!

Maybe have it so that if the camera fails the robot automatically shuts off.

I'm not sure how people would watch the game though if the lights are off...

Instead of turning off lights they could black out the window to the field from the drive station so the drivers couldn't see the field

Re: 2014 Game
 

I think if FIRST even decides to do another sports game, which I don't think they will, I think they will do a tennis game. I don't think they will do a shooting game because they have done two in a row, It will probably be a stacking game or something we have never seen before in a FIRST game ( music, glow in the dark, cooking, dancing, etc.) So I think 2014 will be the best game in FIRST ever!

Re: 2014 Game
 

You drive blind hit someone and get penalized for it. You then realize its a bad idea to drive blind. There's no rule that you can't close your eyes currently :D

Re: 2014 Game
 

There may or may not be a hint from Andy in his recent video! Water game?

Re: 2014 Game
 

I can't wait for those sealed Talons.

Re: 2014 Game
 

Lacrosse!!!!!!!

Re: 2014 Game
 

do you know what would be better then a water game, an air game.

Re: 2014 Game
 

I hope next years game has the same mindset of this years game in a sense. Forcing teams to not just know how to build, but to figure out what to build. Very few robots looked the same, and almost all teams had different roles.

That's what I loved about this year. No 2 robots looked the same. Many were doing the same thing just in completely different ways. I think a water game would be perfect in this sense. No teams have done it before so no one would really know what to build

Re: 2014 Game
 

american football/rugby

Re: 2014 Game
 

Actually, several teams have been doing NURC for a while now. I'd pick them hands down for a water game.


The last time we had a game this wide-open in terms of design choices was 2007 (2008 doesn't count, as anybody could build a lap-bot) with the armbots, the rampbots, and the "hybrids" that could do both well (and there weren't many of those--lots of attempts, though!). The time before that was 2004, with the bar specialists, the small-ball specialists, and some that could do everything to some extent or another. I'd love to see that sort of thing return.

Re: 2014 Game
 

You are making an assumption that the robots will be the same size/weight again this year. Think outside the box! What if they limit us to 60 lbs? :yikes:

Re: 2014 Game
 

Hm...has the weight always been 120 lb. or have they changed it in the past?

Let's see...not frisbees, not soccer, not basketball...

Beach volleyball anyone?

Baseball would be fun to watch

Re: 2014 Game
 

American Football/rugby

There are pvc or aluminum pipes scattered around the field. There are white, red, and blue pipes. You can stack these pipes on 2 bases placed on your side of the field.
The autonomous period is the first 30 seconds. Each robot can start with one pole and other poles will be placed in specific places around the field. Your alliance scores 5pts for every pole stacked during this time. After autonomous, points can not be scored for stacking.
There will be oval shaped balls scattered around the field. The "goal" is to shoot these ball from a zone behind your opponents goal, across the field through your own goal or into alliance robots on the other side of the field. You can only shoot between your alliance color pipes. The higher your alliance pipes, the more points you score. There will be sensors on these pipes that will count the number of balls that go through them. Opponents can't touch your alliance pipes, however, they can take other white pipes. The goals are made up of two towers of stacked pipes on your alliance side.
You score 1pt for every ball shot into one of your alliance members (you must be behind your opponents goal posts, your alliance member must be past the center of the field). You score 2pts*lvls tall that your alliance poles are, for every ball shot full court, from behind your opponents goal post. You can only score if the alliance poles are at the same level. You can unstack your opponents goal as long as they havn't placed an alliance pole on top yet.
During the last 30 seconds the engame occurs. At that point, you are allowed to begin unstacking your own goal posts. For each post completely unstacked your alliance gets 10 pts.

The design of the poles is probably the most complicated part in making this game work.

This is basically a stacking/unstacking/shooting game.

Re: 2014 Game
 

Dude, that actually sounds pretty cool! The only problem I can see is that the points scored might depend too heavily on autonomous and may end up meaning that what's 2 points for 1 alliance could be 6 for another, and that may not be so good. (I just finished my rookie year, so I'm not really sure how bad that would be...I'm just guessing) Also, if you stack 0 poles...well then maybe I guess just 1 or 2 pts?

BUT on another note, I'd like to see how the poles are...also, it requires teams to REALLY think. The best way to have both stacking AND ball shooting. Coolness.

Also, I really like that you thought a whole game through with this!

Re: 2014 Game
 

Groups of 3:

2014: tube?
2013: strange object
2012: ball

2011:tube
2010: ball
2009: strange object

2008:strange object
2007:tube
2006:ball

Re: 2014 Game
 

I wonder if a game could be made around the Bernoulli Principle. That is, suspending a ball on an airstream and maybe guiding it through hoops or something.

It would certainly make building a fast, lightweight bot a no-no.

Re: 2014 Game
 

Water games would be difficult and expensive. I'd go for football any day but it would be really hard to work with.

Re: 2014 Game
 

I would take a football over a frisbee any day, especially if it is custom made like with the basketballs.

Re: 2014 Game
 

First off this is way way too early for this thread to pop up. There are still off season events happening. But never the less (and I can't believe I am doing this) I will fan the flames by saying this.

Hopefully FIRST realizes that when they hand us Frisbees we figure out how to fling them. There have been many people who say it is too hard to throw a football in FIRST. This year there were many that thought it would be too hard to fling a Frisbee. They said it would be too hard to pick them up off the floor. And some said a Frisbee would never make it all the way across the field accurately. All of these of course were proven wrong. So with that said I hope we have a football game soon. Talk about an easy to understand game for spectators. I for one would love to see the innovative ways people make a football spiral across the field and into a goal. Or better yet make it spiral with on mechanism and kick it for bonus points at the end with another mechanism.

So to FIRST please keep in mind that we will figure out what to do with any game piece you throw at us. There is no bad game piece and there is nothing impossible when it comes to using a game piece. We will figure out what needs to be accomplished to utilize your game piece to its fullest potential.

Re: 2014 Game
 

I hope you haven't stumbled upon the 2016 game thread...
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ight=2016+game

I believe trying to come up with possible game scenarios is a great brainstorming exercise. It gets students thinking of creative ways they could solve theoretical games. It is a little distracting that half the posts every year suggest a water game but some of them are really good and sound like a blast to play.

Wrong, please see 2008

Re: 2014 Game
 

;) Just saying. In fact, in that vein, there are plenty of bad game pieces.

I think it must have been Dave Lavery that pointed out FRC game design has more complicated and contradictory requirements than some NASA project he'd worked on. While teams might not have known that frisbees would work, the GDC didn't pick it out of their ear and say "well, they'll figure it out". They knew, at the very least via the same way we all did by kickoff Sunday: by searching "frisbee launch" on YouTube. (They also do some prototyping themselves, though apparently they're not things we'd want on robots.) I've wanted to do football for years*, and I think we could, but the GDC would have to put serious thought into how they can interact with the bots & field.

The GDC under- and over-estimates us sometimes, but never forget they've carefully created this world. Using teams' predictions of previous games to demonstrate that teams can manage anything is a circular argument, and cuts out a lot of the work the GDC does to make them handle-able in the first place.

*Apparently Aiden, the head referee (on the GDC) has also wished this for years. There's a reason they keep saying no, but maybe next year...

Re: 2014 Game
 

I feel that a trackball would have done better if it was used in the game differently :)
Ex: adding a dodge ball element to overdrive, though I feel like that wouldn't exactly foster gracious professionalism :p .

Re: 2014 Game
 

I think you stumbled upon a new game idea :P .

Granted, the way FIRST would have to implement it is using targets like in the 2010 game, just stuck on robots.

Now that I think about it, that sounds a lot like Lunacy without the annoying regolith and without trailers. I'll pass.

Re: 2014 Game
 

Actually, I do not think water balloons would be a good game piece. Just sayin'.

Re: 2014 Game
 

What was wrong with the 2008 game piece? Just because you didn't like it doesn't make it a bad game piece. There is a difference between a bad game piece and a game piece that is disliked. A bad game piece would be something that can't be manipulated by a robot and used to score points. It would be like asking a a Vex robot to carry a pile of 50 bricks to a scoring zone. This would not be possible since the transmissions that Vex robots have a available are not capable of carrying 50 bricks in the duration of a match. What was wrong with the track ball from 2008. Yes it was heavy but it was still utilized very nicely by many robots. Yes 2008 was an overall unpopular game but that does not mean we need to cast the game piece as bad. I for one hope to see that track ball again one day.

Also I never said the GDC chose a Frisbee without first testing. What I said is no matter what they chose FIRST teams will step up to the plate and deliver a good season. It doesn't matter how hard a game piece is to manipulate FIRST teams can figure it out. So using a football to play a FIRST game is completely possible.

Re: 2014 Game
 

Just thought of this one...

Golf?

Golf isn't as boring as people say it is. There's so much strategy behind it (how hard to hit the ball, what angle + wind, which club).

HP can switch clubs for the robot.

I think it'd be interesting.

Re: 2014 Game
 

how about they bring back the lunacy trailers only they only have one peg in the center and during tele op you try to stack inner tubes in the opposing teams trailers.

Re: 2014 Game
 

I think FIRST will try to get away from tradition in the coming years. With the stacking/shooting paradigm having been in place for a while, with a few exceptions, I think the GDC will break from the pattern. Think about the bridges in 2012 and the pyramid jungle gym in 2013. It seems like they are pushing towards more robust, mobile robots that can overcome large physical obstacles. My prediction for 2014 is a bumpy or mobile field, with the main objective being to transport a large or heavy object from one side of the field to the other, and then placing/shooting it in a goal. Autonomous might include some shooting/placing of secondary game pieces, and endgame might be a king of the hill type objective. Anyways, I think there will be a focus on overcoming obstacles of various kinds, like hills/bumps or a climbing objective.

Re: 2014 Game
 

Rebound Rumble with Regolith-covered bouncy octahedrons.

Re: 2014 Game
 

What it FIRST gives us all three phases of water such as regolith floors (ice) have to pushe an object with wind (air) and miniboat races on tracks (water). The miniboats would be the end game the "main game" would he a hockey type game and the pushing with air would be the auto mode.

Re: 2014 Game
 

Human players get water bottles for every disc they can score in a basketball hoop. That's my water game.

Re: 2014 Game
 

No, that is the kind of things that nightmares are made of.

Re: 2014 Game
 

Anyone think of non sport related games? Tetris maybe?

Re: 2014 Game
 

I would say, based on past experience, that the game piece will be roughly spherical for 2014. Whether or not it actually qualifies as a ball remains to be seen.


Past experience in question:
1997, non-spherical, followed by 1998, spherical.
1999, non-spherical, followed by 2000, spherical.
2003, non-spherical, followed by 2004, spherical.
2005, non-spherical, followed by 2006, spherical.
2007, non-spherical, followed by 2008, spherical.
2011, non-spherical, followed by 2012, spherical.

2013 had a non-spherical game object; therefore, if past experience is anything to go by, 2014 will have a spherical game object. (Also to be noted is that odd game pieces have tended to occur in odd years, while spheres of various types have tended to occur in even years, with 2001 and 2009 being the exceptions.)

Re: 2014 Game
 

There will be inflatable balls that cannot be thrown, and a step, bump, or strairs that robots must cross multiple times, like 2010/2012. Like the pyramid this year, there will be a large obstacle to overcome.

Re: 2014 Game
 

cannon balls:)

Re: 2014 Game
 

How about a sand based game? That would just be the best, talk about locked up motors and gearboxes!

Re: 2014 Game
 

Shooting these would be simple: Since a typical shooter with wheels would be out of the question due to friction issues, we will use air cannons! Or catapults/trebuchets.

Almost sounds like Punkin Chunkin! Except we could use a typical shooter with pumpkins.

Re: 2014 Game
 

And it's a water game. :D

I'd like to see a "carnival" game. You know...all the games you see at carnivals that are slightly rigged. That would be pretty fun IMO.

Re: 2014 Game
 

Hockey with hovercraft robots.

Re: 2014 Game
 

If they ever do a regolith field again hockey is the only way to go.

Re: 2014 Game
 

Well, I've put it off as long as I can (this is going to be long).

So let me start by reiterating the things that are important in a FIRST game. These are the things that FIRST needs to include and seems to be trying to include.
The most important aspect is having strategy choices. Dean and Woody love to make parallels between the game and real life. Ultimate Ascent was the pinnacle of this so far, but the GDC can achieve more if they think through it and are very objective.
Another very important thing is how fun the game is to watch. How fun the game is to watch relates directly to the amount of activity on the field which also poses a challenge for scouters.
As well as having an entertaining game to attract a crowd, having a game that can be explained easily is very important. It also benefits teams. Having a game you can understand as simply as “get the balls into the baskets” helps peoples’ comprehension rates and allows them to slowly “sink” into the more subtle rules and twists of the game and approach it in an organized manner. This goes back to work well with understanding how to put together an effective strategy.
Some people have been saying that FIRST needs to eliminate safe zones and allow more defense. This is a bad idea. You have two ways to win: Win by tearing your opponent down or win by rising above them. Which one do you think is a better example to set for thousands of students entering their next stage of life? FIRST is (and should be) making a trend of carefully balancing scoring and defense. The scoring is the main focus and the defense functions as a way to keep teams from getting lazy in their designs and strategies.
That brings up my next point. FIRST is going a great job promoting more robust robot designs. They should continue this trend (and probably will).

So, the popular suggestion seems to be hockey. I really like this idea. It would be unlike anything FIRST has implemented before. Hopefully it would involve actually hitting a puck around the field (like real hockey), as opposed to picking them up and depositing them in a goal. I wouldn’t have a problem with them bringing back some sort of very slick surface as long as the only purpose it serves is to allow the pucks to slide and not to impede robot movement. Look at professional hockey, the players have no problem moving around the field. In fact they move around a lot faster on ice than most people do off the ice. FIRST needs to allow us to solve the problem of maneuverability on the field with different types of wheels and materials making contact with the floor (not make us use those dumb hard plastic wheels). Oh, and don’t even think about making me put skates or skis on my robot.

The other popular game is some sort of stacking. FIRST had a REALLY bad experience with this in 2003 so they seem to be really shying away from it. They’re going to have to face it some year but if that year is 2014? We’ll have to see.
They don’t have to use cubes for stacking, but I really think they should. I don’t want to see those stupid tubs that when tipped over don’t stack! They also need to really get the scoring right. Forget all this crap about multiplier stacks. Do it right. My team hosts a summer VEX day camp every year. This year we had them stack wooden blocks. Our scoring was that each cube (when stacked in a special zone) was worth two more points than the one below it. So a stack of 1 is 1 point, a stack of 2 is 1 + (1+2) = 4, a stack of 4 is 1 + (1+2) + (1+2+2) + (1+2+2+2) = 16. Strangely this also means that a stack is worth its height (in cubes) squared. I didn’t notice it until after the fact.

Let’s talk about the glow in the dark tape measures. Try not focusing on the glow in the dark part. I would bet that it’s not important (it’s probably a Red Herring to distract you). However I could be wrong.
Dark fields are out of the question because they’ll make the game hard to watch in two ways. One because the spectators won’t be able to see, and two because the driving won’t be as good due to the decreased visibility. This also might result in some robots just sitting there because their drivers can’t see to safely drive them around.

I would really like to see the cylinder rule go away. Or at least be increased in size.

I think the chances of another shooting game are slim. It could happen, but I don’t want it to.

As for endgame, I think that minibots may make a return eventually. But I think it will still be a few years. They’re weren’t very fun to watch. And there wasn’t much creativity or flexibility involved in them.
FIRST hasn’t done a good ‘ol king of the hill for a while, so that could make a return sometime soon. It could also be coupled with a chin-up bar like in 2003.
A unique endgame that I would like to see implemented is climbing to the top of a rectangular pillar. They would just be robust boxes (with no lips, grooves, bars or any other place to grip) anchored to the floor. There would be several heights available with different point values associated.

For personal preference. I would like to see the concept from 2009, of goals attached to your opponents brought back and made to work better with a more standard field surface.
Another thing I would like to see is several hundred tennis balls on the field which have to be launched/dumped in huge quantities into horizontal goals (like the hoops from 2012). This would be quite amazing to watch I think.

Tell me what you think! :D

Re: 2014 Game
 

I would love to see a game where there are no rules as to how many game objects you can hold at one time during the match. I also think you are correct when you say it would be amazing to see say 100 tennis balls all being dropped into a goal in one swift action.

Re: 2014 Game
 

I would like to see a game where the robots have to actively work with each other and coordinate to accomplish the main goal like the bridges in 2012. So far each robot in an alliance doesn't need the others to score points for that alliance. It's 3 robots working individually to score points for the alliance not 3 robots working together to score points for that alliance. Other than the bridges in rebound rumble I don't recall robots on an alliance having to work together to manipulate a game piece and or field element to accumulate points.

Re: 2014 Game
 

You weren't around for 2010 (suspensions--one robot hanging off another that was already hanging--though those weren't used often if at all), 2007 (one or two robots climbing on the third alliance member virtually every match) or 2001 (oops, didn't mention the 4v0 bridge-balancing year, ignore that). 2008 and 1999 required coordination for some items; 2010 had some teamwork like passing from one zone to another.

Here is why you'll rarely see that, and why it'll even more rarely be the main main goal:

Random qualifiers.

If you have an item that requires more than two robots to accomplish it, you need to have it be important enough that everybody builds for it to some extent. Even for only two robots, you need only a subset to not build for it. Now, this isn't as important in eliminations, when the alliances are selected and stay together, but in quals...

Let's assume that y'all are paired with two random robots in the first match. You can handle half of the goal (or a third if it takes all three robots); one partner is a no-show because they're trying to trace something and miss their call (or their robot is still being inspected). The other partner is a Brave Little Toaster, AKA defense only (assuming the task isn't something a boxbot with no other mods can do). If that's a major goal you need to accomplish, you are stuck. And I do mean stuck. If you get lucky, your opponents are in a similar situation, so it balances out. If not, you draw two of the local powerhouses, and lose the match badly.

And, I point you to the "worth it" part. Triple balances were worth serious points in 2012; Co-op worth a lot too. The time before that that teamwork was required to accomplish the end goal--from all three robots-- was 2005: 10 points for all three robots being behind the end line. I can't recall a SINGLE instance of those 10 points being awarded. (For 2006 and 2007, a staggered point system was used: X robots in Y position worth Z points, X+1 or Y+1 worth Z+A, etc.)


Incidentally, the years and game elements that required the most coordination and cooperation tend to be some of the least-liked game elements, if not the least-liked years.



For Orion, you missed one CRITICAL element: It has to challenge the skilled veterans while still being easy enough for the rookies (and unskilled veterans, should there be any). This is a stated GDC objective. (Oh, and please don't swap the 2003 and 2004 games--it gets confusing after so many years, even for those who played them.)



Me personally? How about unlimited small balls on the robot that CANNOT be shot (preferably due to field design), but must be dumped into various goals somehow, a la 2000 or maybe 2002 (and recycling would be optional)? Or stacking traffic cones, another perennial favorite?

Re: 2014 Game
 

*Facepalm* Yeah I meant 2003. It's fixed now.

That's a good point. I kind of assumed it in the strategy choices part.
FIRST does want the games to be equally challenging for veteran teams and rookies, but it doesn't seem to affect every area of the game. Interestingly enough it does not seem to have a large effect on the game pieces. The balls from 2006 were very similar to 2012 and the tubes from 2007 and 2011 (not to mention the beach-balls that FIRST used extensively in their early years). That being said, we can be sure that next year won't be frisbees again.
FIRST levels the playing field by making games where it's hard (or impossible) for a robot to do everything.
Thanks for pointing that out. I thought I had covered that.

Re: 2014 Game
 

One thing seems for certain to me though, FIRST will keep an easy scoring system and a spectator friendly design. If FIRST is truly trying to be the varsity sport of the mind, which I fully think they are, then they will follow in the steps of varsity sports in which spectators are a huge part! :cool:
I'm not trying to say this is a bad thing because I actually think that this is an awesome thing!!

Re: 2014 Game
 

For sure!! I like to invite as many of my friends to watch our regionals as possible. Every year that goes by it get's easier for them to do so as well as more entertaining. I think it's great!

Re: 2014 Game
 

I really want to see a game in witch the robots can't touch an important game piece. Something like a large multiplier ball that must be moved by throwing smaller game pieces at it.

Re: 2014 Game
 

This sounds like the game I proposed earlier in the thread!! I'm glad we are on the same page, (does that mean we are right?)

Re: 2014 Game
 

For those thinking water game and sealed talons... I present a new product andymark is selling: http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2521.htm