Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Attention FIRST members:

Local news stations are currently reporting that there was a shooting right next to the Edward Jones Dome, where the FIRST Championship is currently being held:

http://www.ksdk.com/news/crime/artic...ard-Jones-Dome

This is scary news, and I hope that no FIRST members were affected by this. We're all here to have fun and experience the Championship for all its worth, but make sure you proceed with a little extra caution while you're here.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Sounds like someone who had not previously benefited from being part of the FIRST program.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

+1 !

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

This also isn't the first time something like this has happened. Way back in 2009 a guy committed suicide by cop in Centennial Park during the Einstein Finals. Fortunately the incident occurred a couple of hours before the teams were let out to go to the afterparty.
Also in 2012 there was a mass shooting at a medical clinic across the street during the Pittsburgh regional (2 people shot dead) that caused a lock down on the event and an evacuation of the people in the clinic to the arena. They just did extra practice matches til the all clear was given.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Considering St. Louis is considered the second most dangerous city in the country (at least it was last year according to Forbes), I can't exactly say I'm surprised. FIRST really needs to stop picking cities on that list. (Atlanta was #6). I hear Detroit is nice this time of year!

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

You heard wrong! It snowed yesterday.

In all seriousness, I'm guessing the CMP is given tons of extra protection, which could've been why there was a cop in the vicinity of the Dome at all. Being cautious is always a good idea, but I don't think this is a reason to feel threatened.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

If you are worried about crime then they could always bring it back to Orlando, I am sure no one would complain about nothing to do either

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Some helpful information. In St. Louis it is illegal to report that any violent acts are gang violence even though a vast majority of them are. My experiences in St. Louis have been pleasant and yours likely will be so long as your not affiliated with any gangs!! :) all the same though, be safe!

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Hope this incident DOESN'T distract FIRST activities.

Its time CMP comes to MI, bring it to BIG HOUSE in UofM or FORD field!:cool:

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Kind of goes with the territory of needing a city that can support the event. You need not only a large stadium/conference centre, but also enough nearby hotels to house the ~20-30k people the FIRST Championship brings to town, plus sufficient travel options for getting there, which leaves only a handful of major cities, which often have more violent crime. Only so much you can do.

That said, I agree that STL was a step in the wrong direction from Atlanta.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Yeah, this seems like an isolated incident, not someone going on a shooting spree near the dome. Most shooting incidents seem to be targeted at specific individuals and not random acts of violence. Though people can sometimes get caught in the crossfire or catch a stray bullet, I personally don't think this is much to worry about. Of course, everyone should practice common sense--don't go into sketchy areas, travel in groups, etc.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

In doing research for a novel, I searched for the worst possible place, crime-wise, in the whole country, and I found East St. Louis, Illinois... which is right across the Eads Bridge, a few blocks from the Edward Jones Dome.

My numbers are a few years out of date, but at the time East St. Louis had, compared to the national average:

Murder rate 20x.
Assault rate 17x.
Rape rate 8x.
Robbery rate 6.5x.

Fortunately the river helps; the City of St. Louis fares better than its eponymous neighbor, but not enough to make anyone comfortable. They're at 7.5x, 4.5x, 2x, 6x, respectively. For large cities, only Detroit and Flint fare worse.

That said, large groups are almost always insulated from all of the above; this means that being safe is a matter of awareness and common sense--stay in large groups, and don't wander off.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

As a St. Louis resident, I know that St. Louis is just like any city: you need to know where to go. As long as you don't go onto the Eastern side of the river, you're generally good. That said, it is a city, so you always need to be careful.

Here's an article my school's newsmagazine did this year on crime in St. Louis, if you're interested:
http://www.chsglobe.com/cover-story/...angerous-city/

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Toronto is a great place. Come visit and bring Champs with you.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

What? It seems like that might run afoul of the First Amendment.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Shooting and violence rarely happens in Detroit Downtown where FORD field, Joe Louis and COBO are located!:ahh: International Autoshow, and other major events is testimony for this.

Yes, Detroit city itself has its share of violence either due to drug peddlers or teens. CMP may be a good idea to motivate these teens into attending school, don't you think?

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Last year, there was a police action (their words) outside the MAR Championships at Temple University. It's a known risk of any urban (and many non-urban) area.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Yeah, though there is almost always police action in Philly around Temple. I don't think it's something that you'll ever be able to get rid of.

Hope everyone in St Louis is all right, and has a fun time at the Championships!

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Most of the Drexel/Temple/UPenn students actually find it odd if they don't get a few text alerts per week :p

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

I think it says something sad that I actually laughed out loud at that ...

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Temple also isn't in the heart of downtown Philadelphia. It's a relatively nice area, but it's on the border of some less reputable neighborhoods. The Edwards Jones Dome is in a much nicer part of St. Louis.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

At least there hasn't been a tornado and thunderstorm to lock down the Edwards Jones Dome.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Have any of you suggesting Atlanta or Orlando instead of St. Louis due to perceived lack of crime actually been to the downtown areas of either of those two cities? I suspect not.

St. Louis gets a bad rap crime statistic-wise because the city limits are legally restricted to a small land area size - while other cities just expand and take in more suburban areas, the city of St. Louis legally cannot. Since FBI crime statistics are taken by total number of crimes divided by city area size, St. Louis comes out higher than it accurately should.

Atlanta is a sprawling city that gets to count its nice suburban areas in its crime statistics because it has annexed them as part of the city. It is 132 square miles, while St. Louis is 62 square miles. Believe me, if St. Louis could take 70 additional miles of suburban St. Louis County and divide its crime rate by that land size, there is absolutely no way Atlanta would have "less" crime than St. Louis. Orlando is 110 square miles, same phenomenon.

Bottom line - FIRST attendees are as safe as they would be in the downtown area of any city, if not safer. St. Louis does not have a history of violence at major events, like Cardinals games and that sort of thing, and its crime is generally confined to certain neighborhoods, not prime areas of downtown. That's why it is major news when anything happens downtown.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

A Canadian championship would be very intriguing.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

I like this idea, lets do that.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

How quickly we forget that most Americans don't have a passport... (Yeah, it's unfair, but it's a reality that FIRST would have to deal with.)

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

I re-read this post a few times waiting for the sarcasm to hit me, but it didn't. Hopefully there was some there, because Detroit is one of the last places I would want to see CMP move to. Since we're already talking about dangerous cities...I'm going to actually respond to this.

While shooting and violence aren't as prolific downtown by the sports venues (for lack of a better general term), that doesn't mean they don't happen and that that it's a safe area. More safe than many other areas of Detroit, but that doesn't make it great. Most of downtown is actually a really, really nice place during the day (Midtown, museum district, sports venues, RenCen area), but I would be more concerned about at night. It's always a little worrisome to be wrangling a group of students at night in a large city, and the same concerns apply to Detroit.

I just looked at the crime statistics for both St. Louis and Detroit, and they don't differ as much as I originally thought, but there's a lot of other factors that make it a bad choice for a host city. Crime aside, there's also a lack of nearby (cost-effective) hotels and fast food joints, a pretty terrible police department, expensive parking near all of the large venues, lack of trailer/bus parking, and some pretty bad driving*. The city just doesn't have the means to support an event of this scale - the Auto Show attracts a huge (mostly adult, mind you) audience, but it doesn't have an audience that needs to stay nearby overnight for several nights without breaking the bank.

*Side story: I was watching the news once, and it was live reporting from a street in downtown Detroit. You could clearly see the cars passing on the road behind the reporter...and you could also clearly see a van doing a completely illegal U-turn in the middle of a busy road. No big deal. Again, bad driving.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Neither do most Canadians... but we're happy to get one so we can visit our neighbours.

Besides... Americans don't actually need a passport to get into Canada, only to get back home. Which, admittedly, is something of a big deal to most people. Minors, however, travelling as part of a school or community group, don't even require a passport to get home.

Come up to Canada... where shoot outs happen only when the game isn't settled in overtime.*

Jason

*Yes, that's a joke. Our gang members like to shoot each other, too.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Coming soon.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

A. You responded to me with your 1551st post. Awesome.
B. I have an enhanced driver's license, so it's no big deal to me, but I also live on a border state. Most FRC adults do not.

I'm not saying it's a non-circumventable problem, I'm just saying it's an obstacle that needs to be considered. Personally, I'd love to see CMP in Toronto!

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Agreed. They deem it legal because it is "better serving public safety" They are under the philosophy that if you pretend it doesn't exist and don't give the gangs attention then they will disperse. It's not working....

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Just to be clear, when you said "In St. Louis it is illegal to report that any violent acts are gang violence even though a vast majority of them are." did you mean that there is a State or City ordinance that makes this illegal? And people have been prosecuted under this law? Or were you saying that it is the policy of the city to not mention gangs when talking about crime to the media? There is a big, big difference.

I have to believe you meant the latter. A google search on "St. Louis gang" turns up plenty of news stories on gang violence in St. Louis, by local media outlets. I simply can't believe that reporting these stories is illegal.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Crime rate statistics are NOT given on a per land area basis. They are given on a per inhabitant basis.
http://www.cityrating.com/crime-stat...l#.UXqcMHdc2f0

From the Wikipedia entry: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_statistics)
"Because crime is a social issue, comparisons of crime between places or years are normally performed on some sort of population basis."

It can be argued that larger cities have lower crime rates because their populations include suburbanites who commit less crimes. But it is not true that their crime rates are smaller solely because their land area are larger.

For a more detailed discussion of crime rates and their limitations, see this document:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...eir-proper-use

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

More of the latter. The local stations are not allowed to broadcast about gang violence. I live in the viewing area of all the major news networks and they never refer to it as gang violence.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Isn't that the former? You're describing a restriction imposed by the city on news media, not a choice by the city's representatives to frame the issue in one way.

From the way you describe it, it sounds like an illegal prior restraint on free speech. (There are ways in which it could be legal, but they depend on the nature of the government's interest in restricting such speech.)

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

That cannot possibly be true.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

I will leave this here:

I have lived close to downtown St. Louis for 16+ years. I am around to type this message,

I have not been involved in (victim or aggressor) of any shooting or violence crimes.

Yes, I do know some victims and aggressors, but, as stated by Justin earlier, they were involved in gang violence.

As long as you do not get involved with gangs, I have found St. Louis to be very safe.

Re: Shooting by Edward Jones Dome
 

Well this article explains clearly why a shooting happened outside the Dome. We're right next to the 22nd most dangerous neighborhood in America! Oh joy!