Chief Delphi - NI releasing/designing new controller for FRC

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Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)

- Technical Discussion (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=22)

- - NI releasing/designing new controller for FRC (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116424)

Jared Russell

29-04-2013 16:52

Re: NI releasing/designing new controller for FRC

Combining the functionality of the cRIO with the Digital Side Car is a great idea that will no doubt eliminate many current failure modes, and make wiring/fitting the control system easier than ever.

Looking Forward to the new system!

gixxy

29-04-2013 17:25

Re: NI releasing/designing new controller for FRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon_L (Post 1268894)

Why? NI has done a wonderful job taking a product that wasn't FRC-Specific and bringing it into FRC. It was a little clunky but by far the most powerful system FRC has seen yet. What I loved about it - Its not FRC Specific. cRIO and LabVIEW are used in real world environments, its a true hands on experience. I can't wait to see what they come up with for the new system. From what I heard so far its absolutely amazing. My only concern - with it being all CAN based and the pneumatics module being the way it is - its becoming too "plug-and-play" for my taste. Theres no real electrical work.

As for the "non-labview friendly" statement, I don't know why you would want to limit your options. LabVIEW is built by NI and used with NI products, it shouldn't have issues. If there are, you know exactly who to contact.

LabVIEW is no more stressed than any other language. When you set up your control system in week 1, the manual offers setup instructions for each language with no bias.

If I remember correctly, CAN talons are coming its just a matter of when.

As long as they keep NON-CAN talons too.

Meshbeard

29-04-2013 18:17

Re: NI releasing/designing new controller for FRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV (Post 1269296)

I'm not sure I understand this statement. The DSC was made specifically for FRC robots.

I guess what I meant was that they are not suited to use in robots that often get covered in swarf and have students plug things in backwards. They are much too prone to failure for use in FRC. I guess it does teach students not to screw up with electronics, but it should not break so easily in a learning environment.

Brandon_L

29-04-2013 19:05

Re: NI releasing/designing new controller for FRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by gixxy (Post 1269386)

As long as they keep NON-CAN talons too.

I'm pretty sure cross the road as a company would, but from what I'm hearing it sounds like they won't be compatible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Laverdure (Post 1269344)

6mm lugs for the main power terminals on the next-gen PDB. WHY???

I second and third that. 7/16th or 1/2 would be nice.

timytamy

29-04-2013 19:24

Re: NI releasing/designing new controller for FRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Laverdure (Post 1269344)

6mm lugs for the main power terminals on the next-gen PDB. WHY???

Because the rest of the world uses metric and is forced to use imperial, it's only fair that your forced to use metric every now and then ;)

Brandon_L

30-04-2013 20:02

Re: NI releasing/designing new controller for FRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon_L (Post 1269503)

I'm pretty sure cross the road as a company would, but from what I'm hearing it sounds like they won't be compatible.

Correction, I've been told there may be a CAN controlled PWM "sidecar"

Gregor

30-04-2013 20:05

Re: NI releasing/designing new controller for FRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon_L (Post 1270421)

Correction, I've been told there may be a CAN controlled PWM "sidecar"

Where are you getting this information?

AllenGregoryIV

30-04-2013 20:06

Re: NI releasing/designing new controller for FRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon_L (Post 1270421)

Correction, I've been told there may be a CAN controlled PWM "sidecar"

The Athena overview linked above says it will have PWM built in for motor controllers and servos.

Brandon_L

30-04-2013 20:07

Re: NI releasing/designing new controller for FRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV (Post 1270425)

The Athena overview linked above says it will have PWM built in for motor controllers and servos.

ooooooo

EDIT: Went back looking for the link, I don't see it. Maybe I'm just blind.

EDITEDIT: http://i.imgur.com/eA3Bvfu.jpg

apb2390

30-04-2013 21:21

Re: NI releasing/designing new controller for FRC

One thing I'd like to see would be onboard WiFi. It'd remove another thing to put on a robot, as well as removing another source of wiring error (speaking from experience, as I've let the smoke out of a router before).

Gdeaver

01-05-2013 07:58

Re: NI releasing/designing new controller for FRC

To integrate WIFI into the Athena may not be a good idea. Ni would have to deal with FCC certification and allot of the time the controller is buried into the bowls of the robot. Not the best location for RF. We lost one WIFI this year. Better than last year. Would be nice if we had a hardened WIFI solution with a better power connection. Could be done but, cost would be a big issue.

FrankJ

01-05-2013 09:25

Re: NI releasing/designing new controller for FRC

Putting WiFi in would actually be pretty easy. But that locks us into WiFi. I understand they (The big they, not just NI) are looking at other options than standard WIFI.

Anybody notice the big Qualcomm booth at worlds? Any idea what they do? :]

ajlapp

01-05-2013 11:09

Re: NI releasing/designing new controller for FRC

Quote:

Also, I think I worded the second part of my comment badly. Here goes: I really want to see what IFI and other companies came up with. Some of them may not ever release what their idea was because they got turned down for this contract: that would be a shame.

You can see our submission here.

We submitted a combined sidecar/controller concept based on an Arduino Mega 2560. The idea was to make an entry level, easy to use controller that would appeal to educators and makers. We met every FIRST requirement except USB host and CAN capabilities. The price point for the controller was less than $200 in mass production.

We were careful not to shoehorn in extra power or glossy features so we could keep costs down. We were hoping FIRST might consider allowing multiple main processors so teams could choose the best fit. It's likely that Sasquatch would become popular with rookie teams because of the friendly Arduino development community.

We are moving forward with the board for hobbyists and are using it as the basis for our new line of controls products.

The proposal process was exciting and disappointing. We never had high hopes of beating out the other major competitors, but we did dream. :)

Racer26

01-05-2013 11:14

Re: NI releasing/designing new controller for FRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankJ (Post 1270646)

I'm fully expecting Qualcomm is involved for the radio communications on Athena's platform.

IIRC, didn't Qualcomm make the radio chipsets in the old Electrowave radios (branded as IFI) that we used to use in the pre-2007 days? http://www.electrowave.com/products/screamer422.shtml

apb2390

01-05-2013 15:01

Re: NI releasing/designing new controller for FRC

Didn't think about the RF issues, though those could be helped by using an Antenna.

I also didn't consider different wireless systems. I assumed that it would be WiFi because the DS was shown to connect via Ethernet to the field. It's certainly possible that the Athena could use a different form of wireless. It'd certainly make some scouters happier, as they'd be free to set up wireless hotspots for tablet-based scouting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajlapp (Post 1270689)

*snip*

I saw the Sasquatch at the AndyMark booth, I loved the look of it, especially the web-based dashboard and the ability to program it as an ATMEGA. I'm a big fan of using generic microcontrollers, because they're incredibly versatile and used extensively in the real world.

The main problem I see with using it as an FRC Controller would be the lack of a system for FIRST to put their locked-down code. I believe they do this with the cRIO currently, based on all of the information that comes up when compiling code for it.

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