Chief Delphi - Paper Airplanes

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Re: Paper Airplanes

Quote:

Originally Posted by three_d_dave (Post 1269868)

...
Don't underestimate the dignity in every job.
<Soap Box mode = off>

I don't entirely disagree with your post, but if you want the workers to be able to take pride in their work, maybe they'd prefer to spend a couple hours really polishing the stadium above "par" rather than just picking up airplanes to get it back to "par". What you've got there is the broken window fallacy: you're claiming that by making something dirty, you're employing someone and thus creating activity in the economy. But really, the global quality of life is higher if the dirtied/broken thing had remained clean in the first place. In this case, the cleaner's time could either be spent with his/her family or by cleaning the stadium to a higher standard.

Also, you say that "wouldn't they rather be cleaning planes than sticky goop: they still have to clean up all the sticky goop left by us as well. It's not like everyone said: "hey, let's toss planes instead of drinking pop/sandwiches/candy/etc" that day.

Any solution to the paper airplane issue has to include cleanup. Whether that is banning them entirely or creating a reward system for cleaning them.

Re: Paper Airplanes

Quote:

Originally Posted by three_d_dave (Post 1269868)

<intro>OK - not covering anything about respect for the speakers, sponsors, the possibility of losing an eye, or damaging memorial pages from programs. Those are negatives that need dealing with. This reply is only about jobs and cost.</intro>

<Soap Box mode = on>
Ummm - I'll bet plumbers hate cleaning out drains, and trash collectors hate collecting trash, and I'm pretty sure urologists are not keen on the location of the prostate, but they all (mostly?) like the paycheck.

The stadium workers have jobs they would not have if there wasn't anything they could do. If everyone just brought lunch, those food kiosk workers could go home. If there was nothing to pick up, the cleaners wouldn't have to work. If everyone was completely honest and knew where everything was, the rest of the staff could be let go as well instead of looking after the property and answering the same question about fifty times each day.

But, of all the messes, paper airplanes have got to be the lowest on the list. They aren't sharp (paper cuts aside), sticky, wet, smelly, or particularly contaminated with spit, snot, or drool.

If FIRST gets stuck with the equivalent of a mini-bar charge for paper airplane disposal, then it's time to reconsider based on the cleaning cost. But if you were one of the cleaners, would you want to clock out an hour or two early, or would you be thankful for a couple more hours in the paycheck?

Don't underestimate the dignity in every job.
<Soap Box mode = off>

Those stadium workers already have jobs. Their job is to clean the stadium. They would be there cleaning that night whether paper airplanes were thrown or not. That doesn't mean it's okay to make a ton more work for them. Creating a bigger mess does not create more jobs, it just make the ones that exist harder.

Trash collectors come by each week to collect your trash, no matter what. That doesn't mean you should leave your trash strewn all over your front yard instead of in the can.

Janitor's job is to clean a building, and keep it running. Just because they mop the floors doesn't mean you should pour soda all over it.

Re: Paper Airplanes

I personally thought it was cool, I was on the field and to the rookie who made it in the five point goal you are my hero. There is a time and a place for it and it is before the finals start, and maybe when they anounce the champions, but while there are guests speaking and matches being played i mean c'mon really?

Re: Paper Airplanes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libby K (Post 1269114)

I'd like to share a horror story - and yeah, this is personal. Deal with it.

I was down on the floor, as I was speaking during the ceremony. So I got to see quite a few airplanes.

Now, I get ripping up your programs and making airplanes, because you clearly NEED to throw those airplanes since they're so VITALLY important to the mission of FIRST...
...but did you guys really have to use the page that was my father's tribute?

My father - Dean's older brother? He was a huge part of the FIRST community. He died this September, and the program page with his face and his story should have been at least somewhat respected and not used for that purpose. None of the things FIRST works so hard to create should have been, but that one is very personal to me. I was absolutely horrified.
[/b]

How could this possibly keep going for 3 pages after that horrific story? And even then, when people are justifying it by saying that "Oh, well, janitors and whatnot. I'm keeping them in a job right now, so you should back off telling me to not throw a paper airplane."

I'd be all for a designated paper airplane contest at a specific location with no chance of someone downrange of the flyer, USING DESIGNATED PAPER, but on Einstein? Really? Is it necessary? It's hard to watch the match ahead of me when I'm afraid of being nailed from behind me. I came to St. Louis to actually watch the FIRST Championship, not for a chance to toss a paper airplane from an upper balcony.

Re: Paper Airplanes

I always thought the paper airplane thing (which I remember from at least one year in Atlanta) was a creative, pseudo-engineering, organic/spontaneous, participatory activity. From the stands, it didn't seem embarrasing at all when done before the actual closing ceremony/matches.
I was not hugely concerned about the risk of serious injury; given the number of planes thrown over the years, with no reported (on CD, at least) serious injury means the odds are quite low.
I was even planning how to get our team involved in recycling the airplanes as a fundraising/community assistance opportunity.

Then I read this thread.
Libby Kamen, I commend you for not losing it on stage during the Image Award presentation and telling people how grotesque and disgusting their actions were.

The story of the Rockwell executive is telling.

You all have convinced me - this is not an acceptable activity.

But the big problem, and I think the big impetus for the airplane throwing in the first place, is the "down time" BEFORE the Einstein events begin. Not the length of the Einstein events themselves, but rather the time between when seating is opened for the general public, and when the action/awards/recognition begins. This can be hours, if you want any kind of a decent seat. There is nothing on the big screen, no music, just sitting in the seats with lots of adrenaline flowing because of what you just saw on your competition field and what you anticipate.

So I think an official ban on paper airplane throwing is reasonable, but I think it is much more likely to succeed if there is something to do/watch in the Einstein seating areas before the Einstein events begin.
Some thought/suggestions:
Show the videos the students have made, i.e. the Safety videos, and if it returns the AutoDesk Animation Award videos.
Have music for dancing
Have lessons for some of the more popular dances (e.g. Macarena, Electric Slide, etc.)
Show highlight reels from some of the District/Regional competitions (yes, someone would have to make/narrate these; but I bet people would be happy to help)
Mascot/flag parade.

I strongly feel the main reason paper airplane throwing begins is boredom. Alleviate that, and stop it before it starts, and no one should be throwing anything while the Einstein events themselves are occuring.