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Re: Saving Seats Epidemic
Personally, I like the idea of giving each team a reserved section for 12 members. Thats 2 people per robot and really not many teams go more than that. These seats get the best positions relative to the field.
I've rushed into the arena before, and my real concern is just getting a prime location for our scouts. If the rest of the team isnt as close as possible, or if we're a little spread out, it really isnt the end of the world. The priority is making sure our scouting can be successful, and that is a big priority. If the cheer-ers, parents, spectators, or whatever you want to call the not-directly-contributing members of the team cant see which discs go into the red top slot clearly, I (and they) wont care so much. I know getting there really early is not fun, but there really should be a way to prevent the initial mad run. And if a team is there a little later, they shouldnt not be unable to scout because 3 teams of 50 people took up all of the seats in the front rows. Are those the only spots scouting is possible from? No, not at all, but it just doesnt seem right. I have respect for waking up a 5 am, but still, every team should have a good chance to succeed at scouting, I mean, getting those people to watch a hundred match is hard enough as it is! :P |
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![]() Or maybe we should ask the Brits for some advice. |
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We don't control the crowd around the field. Makes the joint louder and FLR rock. Especially during the elims. |
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We moved someone's stuff in a couple of chairs and a woman came (literally) shrieking at us about how those seats were for her team. Joe looked at her and deadpanned, "Unless you're willing to commit assault, we're sitting here." She backed off, and we sat down. I've used that line twice more at FIRST events, and it's worked. But in general it is a problem. The Black Friday scenario increases the chances that someone will get hurt, and I'm sure FIRST wants neither the injury nor the liability. |
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Maybe print a bunch of business with the rule about not saving seats & hand out to all the teams in the pits. Then when someone comes up & complains about sitting in "their" seats, you could just hand them a card.
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Sure it made the teams get up and cheer but from experience you can do that in the stands. Just saying |
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Just a question that hasn't come up yet in this post...how absolute shall the adherence to the rule be? If we follow the letter of the rule, then a scout who runs to the rest room and is gone for only a couple of minutes is out of luck? Same would be true for anyone in the stands? There are teams like ours that have scouts (laptops) linked via ethernet or otherwise need proximity with the other scouts to exchange paper match data. Perhaps this is one of the strongest arguments for at least reserving seats for scouts?
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Making the championships unpleasant by requiring those who stay up late working on a robot or scouting to then get up to save a seat (especially when they won't let you bring in food) is not a strong recruitment tool for mentors. We need to think about the whole experience and what everyone should be getting out of it. Making it even more grueling is not a solution. |
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The Pink team won the Team Spirit award at championships as they did in 2012. The Pink team doesn't like to 'block people'. They always sit down when the matches start. They are cheering for every team every match - that is why they are standing.
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I think where most people have the issues is when small group takes up large block of seats and doesn't let anybody else sit there, not where one seat in a group of people opens up briefly and is saved for that sitter's imminent return. |
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I walked over early this year on Saturday at 8:30am, and there were already 5 other teams in front of me. As mentioned before, they are the 'top' teams such as 254, 148, 118, etc.
At some regional events, I have even heard of teams camping out in line, kind of like getting in line to buy concert tickets. Quote:
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What about a compromise: "your team may save n seats per m team representatives currently seated adjacently"?1
I think that in many venues, n = 1, m ≥ 3 would satisfy the people who are desperately hoarding the best seats in case a few more members of the scouting team show up. In the less-populated sections (e.g. upper bowl seating at the Championship, except at Einstein), n = 1, m ≥ 1 would be fine. 1 Yes, I know there are issues with overlapping groups and the definition of adjacency. |
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The bottom line is that you can only control the action of yourself and those of your own team. If teams wish to not be graciously professional and wish to save seats even though they're not supposed to, theres nothing that others are able to do about it other than control their own actions. And we really don't need to complain to FIRST about the issue, I think FIRST already has enough to worry about. Teams will do as they wish, and instead of making an issue over such a minor thing, we could just rise above their level of constructive attitude and only worry about conducting ourselves graciously and professionaly. You can see the field from anywhere in any of the stands at any of the venues, the venues were built to work that way. If there simply aren't enough seats, then just communicate that with the team reserving seats. If they continue to refuse, then you should talk to your regional committee. But other than that we really shouldn't complain to anyone about it. To sum it up, I hate to use slang, but nothing really describes the situation like it is better than saying: haters gonna hate.
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If FIRST is going to intervene then here's a solution that I hope for.
10 seats be saved for each teams scouts. As a scout I know that 6 people is not enough. Ideally a team ha6 people scouting data, a data entering person, a team sheet organizer, and 2 strategic scouts. You may even be able to argue 11 or 12 seats cause having a mentor is useful too. Having two rows of 5 or 6 would be nice. Also, wouldn't this be up to individual regional/distict coordinators? |
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Ahem....here is my modest proposal:
It is a melancholy object to those, who walk through these great competitions, or travel from event to event as volunteers, when they see the walkways and the stairways crowded with unfortunate students of the FIRST generation, attempting to view their team's matches and importuning other teams for just a little bit of their space. These vagrant teams, instead of enjoying prime seating, are forced to employ all their time begging for their helpless students who, as they wander aimlessly around the venue, either turn seat-thieves for want of their own space, or leave their dear native team, to fight for seating among their opponent Red Alliance, or sell themselves to the event coordinators, hoping for at least a seat for one match. I think it is agreed by all alliances, that this prodigious number of seatless-students at the heels of their mentors, and frequently of their sponsors, is in the present deplorable state of the FIRST kingdom, a very great additional grievance; and therefore whoever could find out a fair, cheap and easy method of providing these children sound and enjoyable seating among the elite, would deserve so well of the ChiefDelphi community, as to have his statue set up for a preserver of the FIRST nation. I shall now therefore humbly propose my own thoughts, which I hope will not be liable to the least objection. I have been assured by a very knowing Michigander of my acquaintance in FiM, that a young healthy student well geeked, is, after 6 weeks of build season, a most delicious nourishing and wholesome food, whether fried, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve as a side to roasted corn on the cob or cheap $2 nachos in a bag at IRI. Those teams who are populated (as I must confess, growth is inevitable) may flea the carcass; the skin of which, artificially dressed, will make admirable handouts for other teams, and team-shirts for next year... A Modest Proposal |
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But I do question if anyone is "delicious, nourishing, or wholesome" after the fare one eats for the six weeks of build season... |
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(oops. We're not supposed to be saving things. Nevermind.) |
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Anyway, that extra weight that everyone puts on during build season will mean there's extra meat on the bones. Just need to balance it out with a few carrot sticks. |
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I find this entire topic almost laughable.
I understand we do not have the best system for seating at events. I hate to be a the pessimist, but do you really think FIRST is sitting around thinking what type of raffle system would work best for seats? Somehow I get the feeling they have bigger concerns. Not only that, but if FIRST actually needed to design an elaborate system to assign seats I would feel silly as if I was back in elementary school. Quite frankly, I'm not convinced the idea is possible nor desirable to be organized on a FIRST wide level. The variation in venues etc makes this questionably feasible. On a humorous note how about a "15 Minute Parking Section" meant for teams to just walk up watch their match and leave. Social experiment: Section off a small, but easily accessible area in front of the field, with a sign that looks official saying "These seats are available to teams while their robot is playing on the field, please remain no longer than is appropriate." See what happens. In all seriousness you should probably ask somebody in some sort of position of power before you try something like that, but I would like to see how trustworthy our fellow FIRSTers are. |
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http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...5&postcount=52 The only thing I would add to the post: Cheering section people should stay seated during their match, so others can see the field. Simple, simple, simple. Whatever we propose has to be nearly zero effort from the event staff. |
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The real issue is in St. Louis where the most motivated teams come together. And again, this is an important issue if Kammen truly wants to spread the popularity of this program. On the other hand, in my experience these types of issues are never addressed ahead of time until a true crisis arises, at least in part because many people dismiss its importance early on. So we'll see how this plays out--it doesn't mean that I and others need to sit back complacently simply because a solution isn't likely in the near term. |
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There is usually a 3-5 minute break between matches. Scouts can get their assignment for say, 6-8 matches, take their notes, then swap out with fresh scouts, deposit their notes at the central location (which doesn't need prime seating and typically will have lots of files / equipment with it, takes lots of room). Plenty of time. Also, you don't need to watch every robot every match. You could watch one side the entire event, and you should get each robot at least 3-4 times. You could also pair up with another team to take notes, and you'd have a block of 12 eyes on the field. Use the extra 3 people to watch interactions. |
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Cory made a great post a couple pages back. This topic may seem ridiculous, but people have been seriously hurt in the mad rush for seats at Championship (and I'm sure other events as well). IMO, something needs to be done about the queue for seating. I linked to Cory's post because he explains the situation perfectly. It basically comes down to total chaos and teams having to take their OWN measures to protect themselves from being trampled. If you haven't experienced being right at the doors when they open in St. Louis, it may seem trivial, but in my experiences is needlessly chaotic and dangerous. -Brando Quote:
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