In addition, teams like 935 would have to spend twice as much for gas and hotels (total of 12 hour drive time!). Funny thing is, KC is our closest regional.

Re: KC Regional Considering District Model
 

Funny thing, when I Google city to city directions it places Oklahoma City 2 minutes closer to Newton than Kansas City, Missouri. :rolleyes: Perhaps if I googled school to arena distances I might find KC closer. It's that close.

Regardless, the point is clear. In a less population dense area the GKC regional is the most attractive option for some relatively distant teams. Travel expenses would increase while still only vying for 5 or 6 spots at championship. For a similar travel expense (albeit a much larger registration fee) you could travel to two separate regionals, meet twice as many teams, and double your chances to qualify. For teams with the resources to go to two tournaments that still sounds like the better option. For teams without that kind of financial capital...?

When the comittee meets I hope they seriously consider travel grants to schools in your situation as an associated cost. I know they were hoping to be able to redistribute some money to teams with savings in this new model.

PS. If I didn't get to sleep in my own bed during the KC regional I doubt I'd find this proposal the least bit intriguing.

Re: KC Regional Considering District Model
 

Spending two weekends for only one event would be a deal breaker for our team.

Why are they looking at an in-between solution instead of figuring out how to make a district system work?

Re: KC Regional Considering District Model
 

Only thing I am going to add to this thread is to mention that the Sunday we held the FTC tournament was also Super Bowl Sunday.

Re: KC Regional Considering District Model
 

I'm not sure I understand the point of this system over other potential systems. What is the true benefit of more than doubling the qualification matches with no increase in the number of intense elimination matches? Sure the more qualification matches you run the more "accurately" the standings will sort the teams. But what do teams get out of playing the same teams over and over again in qualification matches. With only 48 teams and 25+* qual matches you play with or against every team almost 3 times! Seems excessive to me.


Plus if you are going to change the model of the competition why not change the way teams are selected to go to the championship? What is stopping them from splitting it into two "district" events with the top three point accruing robots going to champs after the second event? Teams don't need 29 qual matches and then one set of elims. But they could use 20 qual matches and two sets of elims. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think that the three "best" robots should accompany the RCA, EI, and RAS winners to the champs. Even though a two event system isn't nearly as good at this as say a 15 event system I think you would still get closer than just sending the winners from one event.

When I heard this idea I was sort of baffled. I hope this isn't what they end up going with. This totally takes away the clout from the event and I am almost positive that after the first year the RPC will see a significant drop in corporate financial support meaning that there will be even less money to give to teams that would have to travel a significant distance.

*Fri1:9am-6pm, Sat1: 9am-6pm, Fri2: 9am-6pm, Sat2: 9am-noon with 1 hour lunch breaks on Fri1, Fri2, Sat1 yields about 230 possible matches with a 7 min turnaround time. With 48 teams this turns out to a little over 29 matches per team.

Re: KC Regional Considering District Model
 

So going off of the 39-48 teams estimate:

Why not just directly implement what MAR and FiM do, but skip the Regional Championships aspect?

Hold two "district" events, and have every team compete at both events. Practice matches/inspection Thursday night, 10-12 qualification matches Fri/Sat AM, and then eliminations on Sat afternoon. Repeat at a different venue. Award RCA, EI, and RAS at the 2nd event, and then qualify the 3 highest rated teams by points. Every team would get 20-24 qualification matches, you would have two sets of elimination matches, and there's no problem if teams come one weekend and not the other (separate schedule). If you have ~42 teams, you should be able to squeeze in 12 qualification matches (same as MAR/FiM). If you end up with 48 teams, you would still have 10 qualification matches (same as the current KC Regional).

With a little more growth, you can go to 3 district events. 48 teams would give you 3 district events with 32 teams at each. Add a district championship if/when you grow to ~4/5 district events (80-100 teams).

Re: KC Regional Considering District Model
 

How about we take a little more expanded/crazy view for a future district model(I have been dreaming about this for months it seams just a bit "too" crazy right now :D ). First priority we add a new regional in Memphis and Rolla or Cape Girardeau (will be a "little ;) " difficult right now). Next priority we get both Missouri Regional, the Oklahoma Regional, and the just added Razorback Regional all on board(a bit more easy than priority one). Third priority we make sure that Iowa, Eastern Kansas, Western Illinois, Western Kentucky, and Western Tennessee teams all have an opportunity to join the district. Final Priority we get the University of Missouri-Columbia on board to host the district championship in the Hearnes Center(it would be a perfect place for a district championship).
In total I had around 125 teams plus growth, 6 large district events, and 1 championship or around the same numbers as MAR, except for land size. I think we are close to being able to do this the problem is that travel would be hard for teams/volunteers for their second event. I would love to hear others opinions on this system setup.Sorry for putting this hear but I think it is possible.

As for the KC area going to a "mini" district I believe it would be good for the KC area local teams and bad for the KC teams that are not so local, Iowa and mid-Missouri teams come to mind. I also would miss seeing all of the KC teams heading across 270 for the St. Louis Regional.

Re: KC Regional Considering District Model
 

How would it be bad for Iowa teams? Our team currently travels to two regionals that are 4+ hours away, so traveling wouldn't be anything new. If we can go to two events for the price of one, I'm pretty happy.

Re: KC Regional Considering District Model
 

My thought was the two weekends for 5 qual. spots would be a turnoff. But the price for two weekends of competition is nice.

Re: KC Regional Considering District Model
 

I agree, Sunday mornings are not really ideal for many. But missing nly Friday school solves that issue...

Where is the geographic center of the 48 teams, and what is the furthest travel distance? I ask because a 3 event system might be a better choice. Or a two event system, but teams are "obligated" to attend only one, and highest points winds the CMP berths. Award chairmans, EI, etc at the last event, teams "in the runnng" are asked to attend for awards (being a Saturday it may be easier to justify).

Find another 48 teams and run it like MAR....

Just thinking out loud.

Re: KC Regional Considering District Model
 

I agree that a full district system like FiM or MAR would be preferred. These events started by folding multiple regionals into the system. Rumor is we haven't found a neighboring regional to pair with yet. :( St. Louis, Arkansas, and Oklahoma are all attractive options for a partnership with Kansas City. Did some thinking about what it would look like to partner with the other regional in our state and create a Missouri district. Below is my introductory analysis. Again keep in mind that I am not currently on any regional planning committee, and have limited influence to motivate change.

Unlike many states considering the district model, Missouri’s population (and FRC) centers are on the borders of the state. It would make sense to have a Missouri-plus state championship and allow teams from neighboring states to join in. It would be super if teams outside of the state could opt in or out on an annual basis.

61 teams from the state of Missouri participated in FRC in 2013.

• 29/61 played at the GKC Regional.
• 31/61 played at the St. Louis Regional.
• 1/61 played only at the Oklahoma Regional.

21/61 participated in a 2nd regional. (1 of those went to a 3rd regional)

• 7/21 teams also participated at Cross Roads.
• 8/21 teams also participated in Razorback.
• 3/21 teams also participated in Oklahoma
• 2/21 teams also participated in Alamo.
• 1/21 teams also participated in Queen City.
• 1/21 teams also participated in Hub City

Kansas had 20 teams participate in 2013, 16 of which played in the GKC regional. Most of the Kansas Teams are just over the border from Kansas City. There are no regional events currently in Kansas. 4/20 teams participated in a 2nd regional, split evenly between Razorback and Oklahoma.

Illinois had 7 teams participate in the St. Louis regional. Chicago has a regional on the opposite end of the state. None of the 7 teams aforementioned attended Chicago this year. 6/7 have attended the St. Louis regional every year of their existence and those 6 have never attended the Midwest regional in Chicago.

Iowa had 5 teams participate in 2013. 4/5 have a history of attending events in the state of Missouri. There are no regional events currently in the state of Iowa. (If Minnesota ever closes their border like Michigan has this would also greatly impact these teams.)

The Razorback Regional in Arkansas had 41 teams this year, and is located only 45 minutes outside of Missouri’s southern border. Nearly 1/4th (9/41) of the teams playing at Razorback would likely be drawn away by a Missouri district. No Arkansas teams played in Missouri this year. (I believe the health of the Arkansas regional is strong enough to deal with a district forming on their northern border, but it should be pointed out that 8 out of the 9 teams mentioned did play in the elimination rounds.)

I would love to see a 4 tournament district set up with 2 events in St. Louis, and 2 events in Kansas City. Each district venue would need to hold between 42 and 48 teams, with an event needing at least 32 teams attending to be viable. I could see KC on weeks 1 and 4, and St. Louis on weeks 2 and 5 with the championship in week 7. The championship should be somewhere between 48 and 64 teams in size. By combining 2 regionals together we should have 12 slots to send to champs. I would propose sending 2 chairman’s winner, 2 EI winners, 3 member winning alliance, 1 RAS, and the next 4 teams not already qualified based on points.

PS. I'm afforded the luxury of daydreaming here. No doubt the move of a local city to host 2 or 3 events instead of 1 is no small task. Maybe the KC proposal that started this thread is the first step in securing volunteer resources to help with the transition.

Re: KC Regional Considering District Model
 

Being in a district system where there were two events in KC and two events in STL would be great for our team. I'd be excited about it if it happened.

Re: KC Regional Considering District Model
 

Some interesting ideas for a Missouri district from another thread.


Since GKC and St. Louis were on the same weekend for the first time this year we never had the opportunity to get all the top teams in the state together. An invitational state championship offseason event would be a fantastic way to practice the logistics for a potential district championship without having to pay FIRST an exhorbinant entrance fee (which does not funnel back to the local tournament organizers). Lots of models (Minnesota, Indiana, etc..) to choose from. Noticed that St. Louis does not currently host an offseason event... (No pressure. :p ) Since it doesn't make sense to border off Southern Illinois, Iowa, and Kansas from Missouri, I'd invite them too based on points.

Jaxom already did a nice job of tallying up district points for Missouri and Kansas here. Just need to combine the lists and sprinkle in the Illinois and Iowa teams who attended Missouri regionals this year. (Maybe include 525 too for fun even though they, for the first time since 2006, did not play in Missouri and by school policy wouldn't be able to attend an offseason event here.)

Re: KC Regional Considering District Model
 

Sorry to "hijack" the thread but I think this would be a viable option for the offseason event that we are planning to run this fall. The event would be ran on either Aug.9-10 or just the 10 depending on what the teams want. I think we would want to invite the top 32 ranked teams that competed at both Missouri Regionals.(We would also invite teams 16 and 525 if all 32 decline.) Registration would be for $200 if we would only run on the 10th then we would run the event just like Indiana except that we would have elimination alliances of 4 with alliance selection based off of Cowtown's and VRC's additions to the selection process.(i.e. 1-8 can't pick themselves, 1 picks first during the first two rounds of selection then 8 picks first in the final round, and all 4 teams have to play at least once during each elimination round). We would highly consider doing this if teams are on board for it.

Re: KC Regional Considering District Model
 

Ran the numbers for Iowa and Illinois teams that played in KC or SL to combine with Jaxom's Kansas and Missouri Rankings.
Total is the sum of 2 events. Best is the highest of the 2 events. Average is the average of the two events. I ranked on average. Of course teams who only played one event will have all 3 numbers the same. Ranking based on this. The ranking system does not award points for Chairman's, Rookie All Star, or Engineering Inspiration.

(By the way 1625 and 2451 are Northern Illinois teams, much closer to Chicago and probably not a target for an expanded Missouri district. They are marked in blue. Teams in red did not play in a Missouri regional this year.)

There are 94 teams in this list. Green line represents the top 32. For an Indiana style championship the purple line represents the top 24. If I was running a district championship with to qualify for champs I would be tempted to invite 48 teams (orange line).