Andy this is a goo idea but for some schools here in NYC this game would just be a lil too emotional to do

For example team 694 is just a few blocks from where the trade center stood and can still smell the fires that are burning

Seconds Team 713 Comment
 

I really think it would be quite inappropiate to have a contest on that idea. As they mentioned Team 694, Stuyvesant High School, is literally within a few blocks of the site. Furthermore, I think it would be quite disrespectful to the New York Fire Department. I suppose you might have to grow up in New York City to appreciate the work these heroic individuals perform on a daily basis. They are not like auto workers who can be replaced by robots. I realize you probably did not mean your comment in that way, but virtually all of the 40 teams in the city have probably had members who have experienced the loss of family and friends, in some way as a result of those ungodly attacks. I personally hope FIRST has some type of recognition ceremony for New York City's uniformed services at this year's Columbia University Regional.

-Mike Team 375

Points taken but isn't this a brainstorming post?
 

I see the points where having a motif such as mentioned by Mr. Baker would be invalid for people participating in the event.

However looking at the post, and seeing what has happened with our team in the past years it would be good to note that the topic of this post is a "Brainstorming"

Now if I remember correctly the idea is not to shoot down ideas in a brainstorming.

Of course, one could also argue that the forum is here to voice opinions, but I felt that I would not be doing a service to many a new team to see ideas being shot down in a brainstorming.

Re: Points taken but isn't this a brainstorming post?
 

************
Dictionary.com:

brain·storm·ing (brnstôrmng)
n.
1) A method of shared problem solving in which all members of a group spontaneously contribute ideas.
2) A similar process undertaken by a person to solve a problem by rapidly generating a variety of possible solutions.
************

Idea contributed.

-Mike Team 375

......IMHO, I think that Andy wasn't trying to suggest that we replace firemen with robots, but give them another tool in which to use..... personally I think that anything that would help firemen would be a good thing.......

~Tom Fairchild~, who not only thought that the idea was harmless, but also a good one.

Right
 

Thanks, Tom...that's exactly what I meant.

Mike375 and team 713 have good points. By all means, I meant no disrespect. Of course, robots will not and cannot replace firemen. I realize that this is a very sensitive issue... but I was simply trying to help. These heros who spared and risked their lives should always be revered and remembered. For those in the NYC area who are directly affected by the atrocities of 9-11, my heart goes out to you, your families, and your friends.

The meaning behind my suggestion was to only provide a tool for our firefighters and rescue workers to use. I cannot even imagine what the NYC community is going through and I thought the suggestion might spark some thoughts that could help the situation.

Respectfully,
Andy B.

Tom we're not saying that its a bad idea or that they are trying to replace the firemen, but you have to understand that we lost 5,000 people. Earlier this month the American Airlines airbus 300 crashed in Rockaway. NYC is very sensitive yo the whole plane and fireman situation.

However, right now FIRST should try to stay away from anything that would represent a fireman. This is for the simple fact that I could be taken the wrong way. Not to mention many of the students participating in new York regional have lost firefighters in the tragedy. just out of consideration for the students first fighting won't be the best of options

Wow...where is this thread going? Talk about taking an idea and running with it. Now, I understand how the whole fire fighting thing could be a sensative topic and I (thankfully) didn't lose anyone because of the whole event. But, I can say, that living an hour away from NYC on Long Island, having a sister and a brother in law that lives in Manahttan, and having another sister and brother in law that works in Manahttan as well, I wouldn't be insulted by this idea at all. And trust me, I spent *many* hours that day trying to get a hold of my siblings, praying that they were okay (my one sister works one block away from the WTC and saw everything happen from her office window). Andy was just trying to be helpful, and it wasn't in any way meant to "replace" a firefighter. And, I, personally, would think it was a good idea, but since I (personally) know how sensative of a topic it is, that's why I wouldn't do it. I do know people who lost loved ones (I know a woman who lost her husband, brother, and son) and because of that, I know the impact this has had on everyone.

I think it would be a good idea not to use this as a game because of all the people who might have trouble with it. But, I do think Andy had a good idea. And, just in my opinion, I don't think it's reason to jump down Andy's throat about it either. But hey, that's just my opinion.

~Christina

::extends olive branch::
 

First off, I fully understood that you in no way personally meant disrespect to this city or the heroic individuals who ran into those burning towers that horrible day, while so many others ran out. And you are right, in the future, I'm sure that robots will be employed in fire operations. There was even a piece recently on a local news station about how FIRST style remote control robots were being used to search the vast debris field for any signs of remains.

I guess partially part of my anger was your mentioning of 9/11. Frankly, even if every fire truck in the nation was at the base of the towers, for countless reasons, those fires were not going to be put out, and they were doomed to come down. I just can't envision FIRST holding such a competition. To give some prior examples it would be like a competition to design a bomb removing robot after Oklahoma City, or the first strike on the towers. If you had mentioned this idea September 10th, I would have probably agreed that it was a good idea. But in this new age, I'm looking forward to this year's project as a way to sidetrack my thoughts from the events that have recently unfurled in my backyard, not to focus on the what-ifs.

I apologize for over-reacting, I've just been bottling up quite a bit of emotion for a while. I just hope the eventual result of this is that everyone doesn't wait for such an unimaginable tragedy to happen in your community to grow a higher level of respect for your local public safety officials.

-Mike Team 375

PS: I realize in advance some of you will feel this has nothing to do with this topic, but you need to learn that no matter what self-assigned role you've given yourself on this board to make yourself feel important , people need and deserve an opportunity to express themselves.

.... what to say?
 

Mike, I really don't know what to say.... I agree with your post for the most part, especially the olive branch, but your P.S. baffles me. There's no one on these boards that I know of who isn't supportive of people expressing their ideas.

~Tom Fairchild~, who treasures the opportunity to express himself and hopes that he has offended or annoyed anyone.

Peace, love, and happiness to all.

Logic is missed in the time of a loss...
 

I hate to rain on this parade, but if the FDNY wanted to use robots to help them, they would use the ones that are already in use. Specifically, I'm talking about the robots used in Mexico City when their subways caved in recently. Granted, the rubble wasn't nearly as deep, but the small, rugged, camera-toting robots performed magnifisantly during the time in which survivors were a possibility. These robots helped save 17 lives that could not have been saved without the help of the locator bots. I'm looking for pics right now, and I'll try to get back to you all on this topic.

I guess my post last night disappeared...
 

You're mistaken
 

My PS was not intented at Andy. If you read this thread, I think it is fairly obvious I apologized for venting like this. If you look through the thread I feel it's very obvious who this was directed at.

Mike 375

Settle down, folks.
 

Okay. . . .chill out.

I think that we always should try to look at the good in a situation. I know - it's cliche.

I didn't find anything inappropriate about Andy's suggestion, nor do I, personally, feel like it was the wrong time to bring it up.

Quite the opposite is true, actually. With the horrible tragedy of having lost so many brave firemen, I think there's no better time than right now to bring the nation's focus to viable alternatives to placing human lives in danger. That does not mean, of course, that we have any less respect or admiration for those who are eager to place their own lives on the line to help others.

But, as you've noted, there's a definite role for robotics in firefighting. A FIRST competition geared toward innovations in that field might not only prove to be useful within the existing scope of FIRST, but also in the greater outside market. It's entirely possible, if not probable, that some of the great teams out there can come up with some unique, intelligent solutions.

Now, with all of that said, I think I can pretty safely say that Andy wasn't suggesting we set fire to the playing field, and have two eerily reminscent tower-like goals or anything like that. Instead, he was just trying to think of a way our experiences with FIRST could be extended even further into society, and he was suggesting that there's a way we can do our own part to help out.

Re: You're mistaken
 

lets let this one end
 

Good discussions often go astray - let's just let this one end. Maybe this years game should be about people communicating with other people, and skip the robots all together. Everyone has apologized and re-stated their opinions about every aspect of this issue. This one is done. There are far too many other interesting topics to discuss. No disrespect intended on anyone involved, but its time to let this thread end - and move on to solving other FUN topics! May I suggest, instead of responding to this - START a NEW thread !

well said