Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

Okay hey guys, so I have this question.
Is it legal to have a quick release after the motor controller, but before a motor so that you could separate/sever the electrical connection quickly. The same quick release used to connect the circuit breaker and the PD Board to the battery.

Something like this:
http://www.ceautoelectricsupply.com/vhcconnectors.html

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

Many teams use Anderson connectors for this all time. 45/30 amp powerpoles work well and are much smaller and designed for 10/12 awg wire unlike most connectors for the large anderson connectors that we use on the batteries.

Powerwerx and Allied Electronics both carry them along with a host of other vendors.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

According to current rules, yes you can, but there could be a reason as to why they may change this in the future...

R49
Branch circuits may include intermediate elements such as COTS connectors, splices, COTS flexible/rolling/sliding contacts, and COTS slip rings, as long as the entire electrical pathway is via appropriately gauged/rated elements.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

My team did have quick disconnects this year. The only problem we had was that sometimes they would wiggle themselves out just enough to not work. It wasn't a huge deal but it was just an extra thing to think about before every match.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

Zip ties, or if you want to get fancy they sell clips to prevent this.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

Some type of connector is recommended to allow fast replacement of damaged or defective sub-assemblies. As pointed out the Anderson 30 and 45 amp connectors are one of the best ways to do this. However, a simple design where the speed controller is mounted near the motor works well. Quick connects on the controller itself, allow shorter motor wiring and less opportunity for failures. We use 1/4" spade connectors on the controllers and Andersons if we can't position the controller and motor close to each other.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

CHS Robotics used (pretty sure we still are) the Molex .093" series wire to wire connectors for interconnects between the PDB and the Motor Controller, and the Motor Controller and the Motor. These were only for the lower amperage circuits (20 amp max on a connect specc'd for 15 amps). We used a set of Anderson PowerPoles with a 30 amp rating for the 40 amp circuits (but we had some problems with failure of the solder joints. Possibly consider getting the actual crimper for the 45 amp contacts, or switching to a different connector, possibly a Molex).

At university, we use the XT90/60 and Deans T-connectors for high amperage circuits (75+ amps). The nice thing about these connectors is that they are actually fairly small, do not tend to come out easily, and very robust. Bad thing is they can't be panel mounted. Also, the Deans connectors are not the safest of connectors (unshrouded male pins).

One thing you should do is design your system to be modular and, well, idiot-proof. If you package your entire control system (cRIO, breakouts/headers, and PDB) and place modular interconnects between everything (use wire-to-wire connects for power, and 0.1" headers to DB9/15/25), you have made a system very open to prototyping (just plug and play, quite literally), and setting up your system for competition is fairly simple. If you standardize your connectors to the type of circuit, i.e. a particular connector for 20A circuits, a particular connector for 10A circuits, a particular connector for 40A circuits, and a particular connector for 5V circuits (this one is key!!!), and you do this between the controller and power, then essentially an idiot (i.e. a rookie) could wire up your robot for you.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

We always use Anderson Power Poles in the wire that connects a motor controller to a motor. They are reliable and fairly easy to crimp. This season, we also got the clips to go along with them, and they worked like a charm. In the past we have used zip ties too, however.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

You should double check what you're using... All connectors must be "appropriately gauged/rated", per R49, previously quoted. To me, that says that if you have a 20A breaker on a given line, any connectors in line with that breaker also need to be rated for a minimum of 20A. For 30A breakers, they should be rated for 30A or above, and for 40A breakers for 40A or above. With what you've suggested above, you are using connectors that are rated less than the breakers - as I read it, that violates the rules.

The crimper for the PowerPoles works really well, and i highly recommend it, although its not necessarily required. For the open PP connectors (shaped like a U), you can bend the tabs over carefully with a pair of pliers. Even with the crimper, though, I recommend everyone solder the terminals as well. So long as it is properly soldered, it'll never be coming apart. The key is to solder it properly... with people new to soldering, its very easy to get a cold solder joint and thus a weak connection that'll break off easily.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

Yes you came your team used them for all of your motor controllers

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

Amazon is a good source for a lot of things, especially Amazon Supply(formerly known as Small Parts).

Here is the 100 pack we ordered a few weeks back. They also have smaller packs, 50 and 10.

I have seen other teams use different colors for each motor and motor controller for quick visible recognition of where the connections go.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

Thanks once again! Okay so I've talked to my team's electronics guy and he'll be checking over this. Once again GOOD LUCK TO ALL TEAMS AND THANKS FOR THE HELP ^_^

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

Ham radio operator and a boater here: I've been using Power Poles for years and I love them. Spend the money and buy the crimp tool. The crimp puts even mechanical pressure on the wire, and creates wire/crimp areas that are pressure tight. Even mechanical pressure means the crimp will not come off in abnormal use. Pressure tight means no corrosion at that point (Corrosion is bad on a boat).

They come in colors and the right sizes for the job. They give you the ability to do both "correct wire colors" and allow for final decision at the device. Case in point, swerve drives have two motors close to each other. The wires coming to them are black/red indicating power. But the Power poles are Black and Red and Black and Yellow, and they mate to the same colors on the motors. (Drive and steer)

On the boat I have lots of pairs of items. Port side gets black/red starboard side gets black / orange.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

There are many crimpers out there, but we use the one from West Mountain Radio. Same guys that make the battery analyzer, CBAIII. The crimper is a military style ratchet crimper and does three sizes of terminals.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

Does anyone have a part number for the crimping die used for the powerpoles? I'm having a hard time finding them.

We don't currently use these connectors, but I was interested to see how much it would cost to get into the game.

There's a number of complete ratcheting crimpers online for ~$40, but we already have a number of ratcheting crimpers that the dies can be swapped out of. Doesn't make sense to buy another full tool when all I really need is the die...

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

It would help to know what tool you have now.

The one I have has a die set for other things:

http://www.powerwerx.com/crimping-to...ping-tool.html

but I'm going to doubt it will work with your tool.

OTOH, buy the new one. Figure 40 crimps a year, year 1 its a dollar a crimp. By year 5 you are under 25 cents a crimp. Loan it to the three teams in your area to use and soon you are at a penny per crimp.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

I believe our crimper is made by Xcelite, not sure on the exact model, but something like this.

I have purchased Paladin dies for it in the past (like this one)

The dies you linked look like they would fit our crimper, and I saw them when I was searching, but do any of the ones listed work for the powerpole connectors? My impression was that this die set would allow you to crimp other style connectors with the TRIcrimp powerpole tool, but does not include the die that comes with the powerpole tool.

Plus I was looking for a single die, at $55 I might as well just buy the crimper I linked previously (which appears to be the tool that this set of dies is meant for).

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

Some Google work got me to these:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000JJJ6B6

My crimper is not nearby, maybe Al or someone else can look at the die picture and see if it matches their tool.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

We use the Anderson Powerpole connectors. If you do them right, they shouldn't come apart. However, we wrap tape around ours just to be safe.

If you were to put motor controllers that far out, wouldn't you have to make your PWM cables really long, too? We try to keep all of our wires short to minimize resistance/emf interference.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

We use this crimper and have not had any issues.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

Evan,
There is very little current in the PWM cables so it really doesn't matter how long they are. Putting the controllers near the motors to cut down on the number of connections helps reliability. Are you adding tape to hold the connectors together? Another method is to secure the wiring with cable ties close enough to the connector that they cannot be pulled apart. If you are coming to IRI, find me and we can talk.
The West Mountain Radio Crimper is the best I have seen so far but the others are a close second. Another good crimper that I bought for myself at home (I have dies for RF connectors for various cables, I asked for this as a Christmas present) is available from High Sierra Communications on this page...
http://www.hamcq.com/coax-connectors...ax-connectors/
I recently bought the Power Pole die set but have not used it as of yet. When you look at the page you will see several crimp tools but I think two of them are the same and the price difference is the dies that are included. The coax cutter at the top of the page works nice on #6 wire (stranded) too.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

Does this crimper have the bucket on the non-wire side which I see on an number of other crimpers out there? I'm assuming that piece is just to ensure proper alignment along the length of the contacts.

For those who have a powerpole crimper that they like, would you say this feature on a crimper is beneficial? Does it make crimping faster / easier?

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

James,
If you are referring to the contact retention device as a "bucket" then the answer is yes. The contact retention will improve the time it takes to make a crimp. With the other, interchangeable die, crimpers, it is a little more trouble to get the contact into the tool with the wire. With both types of tools, a little practice will usually develop a simplified procedure to getting the contact crimped. With the West Mountain Radio tool (and the one you link), you put the contact in place then add the wire and then crimp. With the others, I add the wire to the contact and then using the wire as a handle, insert the contact into the tool and crimp.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

The retention device is both good and bad. On the good side, it makes it very easy to get everything lined up and crimped quickly. On the bad side, if something goes wrong it can cause you to destroy a perfectly good contact. We've found that contacts will occasionally get "stuck" in the crimper (we have the one from West Mountain Radio). When this happens, they get pulled upwards when you open the crimper, which resulted in the contact getting manged by the retention device - we have a contact that can't be used with a perfectly good crimp on it! So, we removed the retention device. It's not as easy to get things crimped without it, but now we don't mangle the contacts if they get stuck while crimping and can easily pry them out with a small screwdriver (usually the WAGO tool).

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

To be honest, I don't know. It's at the school locked up for the summer. It's one of the few things we forgot to grab. I vaguely remember there being a retention bar or something similar to the picture you posted, but I'm not positive.

I can say that the students picked up on it very quickly. We have only lost a few contacts and that was mainly during training. We have grown accustomed to this tool and debating on ordering a second.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

Thanks everyone for the info. It's certainly helped me make a more informed decision. If we decide to use poerpoles in coming seasons, it sounds like it makes sense to just get an entire crimp assembly w/ dies that has the 'retention device'.

Have you tried to lubricate the area of the crimping die which the contact is placed in? I've seen this recommended for header pin crimpers for PWM cables. When those get stuck in the die (the male ones at least) you often end up bending the contact enough to make it fun to insert into the jacket. Sounds like you've found a workaround, but it may be worth a shot to make thinks a little easier.

Re: Electrical Quick release after motor controller?
 

Yes, any time it gets stuck the tool gets a little TLC, and it probably helps (at least, it seems to resolve the issue for a while). Honestly, I've never taken the time to figure out exactly why they get stuck, or we'd probably try to fix it in a more permanent fashion.