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Upcoming Site Changes
How many people remember this version of ChiefDelphi.com from 1998?
The site started out over 15 years ago providing a system for the FIRST community to discuss anything and everything about their experience in FRC. Many things have changed since then -- new social media and online community sites Facebook, Google, Twitter, Flickr, etc., have all come along. In the next few weeks, we are going to be streamlining and simplifying the ChiefDelphi.com experience. This involves combining and removing some forums that aren't used that much, removing some custom features that aren't used much, making it easier to maintain the forums -- mainly keeping them up to date and secure. CD-Swap has already been removed .. If someone needs something / wants to give away something, they can just start a thread about it. CD-Events was never really completed or used to its full potential, and will be removed. The vBulletin calendar functionality will remain, though. Unsung FIRST Heroes -- there have been many attempts to revive this; and with the addition of the Woodie Flowers Finalist Award at the regional level, it has been even more difficult to get started again. This, along with the special WFA area, will be removed as well. Spotlights - There are a bunch of great quotes in here, but if you look through the thousands of quotes there are a lot of inside jokes and random things that really start to outweigh the useful quotes. These will also be removed. CD-Media, FRC-Spy, CD-Spy will remain as-is, for now. We know some people will be upset that these features are being removed, but these changes will help simplify the maintenance of the site and allow everyone to focus on what brought everyone to this site many years ago: the discussion. Once these changes have been made, this will allow us to easily upgrade vBulletin which has some new features which may be useful and provide other valuable features (Facebook/Twitter integration, blogs, groups, etc.). |
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Instead of removing the spotlights entirely, would you be willing to accept some volunteers to help clean it up of random posts/inside jokes that were submitted?
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One thing about the spot-lighted posts.
Many a time, I have been lead to a wonderful thread, where I learned many great things, from reading these spotlighted posts. If I am bored, I will often spend much time clicking through these. They will often bring you back to points in FIRST history, a random regional, some cool design, etc. That you would not find any other way. Often times they will lead to some good discussion points. I know they are a bit full of inside jokes, but I agree with Akash, we should keep the useful stuff, and clean out the junk. |
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I third the request to keep Spotlights. Perhaps cleaning them up or reformatting the way they are done is in order? I like to sometimes read the spotlit posts and get a laugh or see some truly inspiring material. On the other changes, i thought CD Swap was kinda convenient, but no one used it much so I suppose removing it is in order. Is there going to be any UI changed or is the UI going to stay the same minus a few links on the top nav bar?
One thing that I think does need to be fixed is the rep system. I don't know how many users are aware of its existence, but you either have no rep or full rep as it is. Not sure if we want to just ignore it or get rid of it alltogether or what. |
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I add my signature to the petition to not remove spotlights. I've actually found that the good quotes far outweigh the bad, and I have gotten many good laughs and learned so much through them. I would take spotlights over Facebook/twitter integration any day.
Besides that, I love to see that your going to be removing some of the excess features on this forum. EDIT: I can help out with removing bad quotes if you want me too. |
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In regards to CD-Swap, anyone who is interested in purchasing/selling/trading parts should join up this group on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/frcgaragesale/ |
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I also sign the petition to keep spotlighted posts. There are some seriously good (and/or funny) quotes in there!
I agree with Stogi at the top of this thread, maybe some volunteers could go and weed out some of the posts that weren't meant to be spotlit. I wouldn't mind helping out. |
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I agree with keeping the Spotlight...and who doesn't love the Valentine's Day Spotlight?
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I too really enjoy the spotlight posts. Sometimes I'll see an interesting one, find it thread, read it and learn soemthing. Or, I'll just browse through the list getting a little inspiration and amusement. I agree with Akash, maybe it should be cleaned up. (I'd help, if needed).
And would the UFH entries still be available to read? |
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I know a lot of people have already chimed in on this, but the spotlights are awesome. Most of the time they lead to useful threads, and I have learned quite a bit of things from referencing them.
If needed I can help sift through some if you want to cut down on the inside jokes and random things. |
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I can't comment on the original intent of spotlights, but as-is from purely a user perspective I think they're great-- I've gotten many laughs and discovered so many interesting perspectives and people that I wouldn't have seen the best of if it weren't for those spotlights. Plus they can be an excellent index of perspectives and important posts that a user has made throughout their time here.
I get that they may have strayed from the original intent, but I think they're something wonderful as it is. |
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When I read the post on the front page, my initial thought was "Finally, they're getting rid of the spotlights. I'm sick of seeing ridiculous inside jokes up there."
I'd be up for seeing some intelligent people cleaning it up, but if keeping the spotlight feature means there's even one iota of extra work to make the upgrade to the newest version of vBulletin, I say just scrap it entirely. I'm really looking forward to seeing the potential Twitter and Facebook integration, seems like a great way to further network the robotics community. |
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Another vote to clean up but keep the spotlights. I've found some great stuff, and links to great older threads, browsing through them. At the very least, maintain an archive of them somewhere.
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I like the spotlight posts, I hate to loose notable quotes from some of CD's top brains. I also think it's interesting on how they come up to match a relevant time.
I'll sign up to help trim them down to pull some of the inside CD quotes out of the rotation. |
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I'll add my vote to the pantheon of users who appreciate the Spotlight posts at the top. It sometimes provides insights into the community and the way things are/were. As a relatively new member of the CD community, the value of the spotlights cannot be overstated. It's like a window into the CD community's psyche.
I rarely see items I consider "inside jokes" and even then, if it doesn't make sense to me, I'll click on the link and investigate the context, discovering what was awesome/cool/neat/groundbreaking in past years. It's like an item out of a time capsule. I'll also add my name to the volunteer list to clean up. All that being said, I understand the need for progress and update. I have no idea how much custom coding is involved in putting the quotes at the top of every page. Certainly, the effort that Brandon and others who work behind the scenes on CD is much appreciated, and I wouldn't want to waste their time on little-used features. I disagree with Karthik's assertion that zero effort be put forward in keeping this feature. As stated in the original post, the intent is to bring focus back to the discussion. Without the highlighted posts, past discussions will wane into irrelevance, and gems of wisdom will be lost to all but the few who read old forums for the fun of it. |
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If they are going to go away, I assume it wouldn't be that hard to back them up in some other format? It would be cool if someone else could set up a separate spotlight page if CD doesn't want to be in the spotlight business anymore. Especially if the new spotlight was well curated. EDIT: Well played cgmv123 for spotlighting a comment about pointless spotlights. |
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I would like to keep spotlights but since some (quite a few/most/all, whichever you would like to use for the hyperbola) are in fact inside jokes I would be in favor of restarting the spotlights. Archive these spotlights somewhere. Old-timers and procrastinators can spend their time perusing them to their content. Allow the spotlights to start from scratch though and start accumulating new quotes (and inside jokes that will be cleaned out again in 5 years). I think at the very least it is worth a shot.
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I like the spotlights for the same reasons that were repeatedly mentioned here, but I see why you would want to scrap them.
Suggestion: Many people stated they found some very interesting threads, as a result of looking through the spotlights, that they wouldn't have found otherwise. If spotlights do get scrapped, you could have a "suggested threads" section, which'll be a collection of links to threads that were noted by X users (I think 5 is a good number) as worth reading. You could also link a random one on top of the page where the quotes are now displayed. That way the spotlight functionality of introducing people to interesting threads won't disappear. |
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A lot of times, searching on CD can help you find what you're looking for. However, occasionally clicking on an interesting spotlight can help you find things you didn't even know to look for, which can be even more valuable. It can bring you back year's in FIRST history to educate you about things that you wouldn't have ever heard of otherwise, inspire ideas from previous discussions that wouldn't have been thought of otherwise, and bring appropriate emphasis to a brilliant post that should be shared with the community.
I know I've stumbled across my share of threads containing valuable information that I wasn't actively seeking out because of spotlights. Just this morning I clicked on a spotlight about holding bots together and found a 3 year old thread about rivet implementation - something that our team has never done and will hopefully strive to do effectively in the future. I now know of a specific place I can turn for useful information on the topic when the time is right. That being said, I do see the general problem with spotlights. The majority of them are utterly useless. Case-and-point, the one at the top of my page at the moment reads: "What does code sound like going though a complier?" |
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I love the spotlights! Please keep them.
And before culling them, can you at least preserve the current list in a thread somewhere? |
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I'm with Karthik on this one. If it is blocking or hindering a vBulletin upgrade, we can live without the spotlights.
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Since this is becoming an impromptu poll of sorts, I'll chip in my agreement with Karthik and BigJ. It would be nice to keep the (good) spotlights, but it's a lower priority than upgrading the boards as a whole to the latest vBulletin.
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On the topic of spotlight, it really depends if we can get the staff to upkeep it. If there are enough volunteers that fit moderation requirements to pick out the good spotlights, then the feature should definitely stay. I've learned a lot from helpful spotlight posts. Coincidentally this one which I think is very good advice is above me right now:
.However, I'd argue 90% of them are "this was funny once in that one thread" and wouldn't be of any valuable knowledge to those who see them (see below). ![]() |
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Are we upgrading to VB 4 or VB 5 connect?
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Just for reference, I refreshed the page 10 times and copied the spotlights here:
Code:
FIRST cannot enforce Gracious Professionalism on the participants in this program, you will have to do it on your own.Another thing to note: look at the join dates of the people who want to keep the spotlights versus the people who don't care about them. It's generally the newer folk who like spotlights. To me this is solid evidence that one of the major reasons people like spotlights is because they provide a glimpse into the past. |
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There are certainly some great quotes in the spotlights... but unfortunately a lot of stuff that, as has been pointed out, isn't that great to anyone who isn't "in the know" on what was going on 5 years ago, or to the various personalities on this site. Additionally, There are many great posts out there where spotlighting a single line isn't appropriate, but spotlighting the whole post (which is too long to spotlight) would be.
I would be in favor of doing away with the spotlights while providing another method of highlighting good posts. Another forum I frequented in the past included a "Thanks" button on each post - you could select it to highlight something you felt was great. Including something like this, with a way to list posts sorted by the number of "Thanks" (a couple of top-100 lists - ever, past year, past month) could serve the same purpose, and over time the posts with inside jokes would slip down while great posts about teams or technical advice would filter to the top, ideally. |
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Hey did you know 1114's robot went up in smoke in 2006? I did.
As a 2012 rookie, people are often amazed about how much I know about FIRST history. 95% of things I know about FIRST history come from spotlights. People who've been active on these forums for 10 years have little need for the spotlights, but it is an invaluable resource for newer dedicated (read: obsessed) members of the community. Progress is great, but anything that can be done to preserve spotlights would be fantastic. I would argue that you don't even need to weed out the inside jokes. I only click on spotlights that I find interesting. If you don't want to click on it, it's only 1 line at the top of the page taking up space. |
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If it poses a significant code hurdle, I understand (it's not like I'm trying to maintain it!)--but it would be the feature I'd miss the most from the trim-down*. *No slight to the UFH and WFA areas; they've just collected dust for so long that it's easier to let them go. |
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I guess a good middle ground to losing spotlights would be some way the site could spotlight threads outside of build/competition season.
I know I'm not the one maintaining something like this, but maybe spotlights could come back in the form of a Twitter bot that pulls a part of a good quote and links it there? I don't know. I like it, but progress is key. |
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+1 for the vBulletin upgrade! Thanks Brandon!
For now, maybe just archive the spotlights somewhere (would be easy for anyone to do, in fact) and consider reviving them later once the upgrade dust has settled. |
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When will reputation be removed?
I always liked Spotlights and would be sad to see them go, however I do understand that it's mostly just clutter. If individuals had the ability to trim the quotes they spotlighted and/or the quotes they are spotlighted in then maybe you'd see a little less random quotes if posters could go back and revoke their choice of what is good to highlight...but how you pull that off I have no idea... If the only options are keep spotlights or toss spotlights, I choose not to vote and trust in the webmasters of the forum. |
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As a person that approves or denies spotlights I will throw out my 2 cents Canadian.
It is very difficult to decide what is and isn't a spotlight. I, an old man, may think something is great were as Karthik, a young 'un, might think I am totally wrong. Sometimes I see 20 bad spotlights that I do not approve then wonder did I do the right thing. It is a slippery slope on what is good. I am willing to cull if requested and know that there are a lot that I would remove but would all people agree with my selections? If there was a way to have any recommended spotlight approved by, let's say, 3 authorized approvers before being added then that would help. If it means a lot more work on everyones behalf, is it worth it? |
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I'll fall in with the "I like spotlights, but if they hinder an upgrade, adios" crowd.
I won't repeat what everyone else said, but I will add that sometimes it's a thrill to see one of your own quotes up there. You definitely get great "cred" when you're demonstrating CD to someone and one of your own pops up. As for the rest: I'd even be a bit more aggressive in removing & consolidating several fora. |
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+2 for the VB update. 3.6.4 seems like an old and quite vulnerable version...
As for the other changes, I like them. Keep everything clean and simple. It's going to be sad seeing it change though, it's been the same since I first came here in 2008... |
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Throwing in my weight, I too did like the spotlights for the various reasons posted above. I think my knowledge of things FIRST would not be nearly as vast as it is had it not been for spotlight posts.
With that being said, a VB4 or VB5 upgrade would be greatly appreciated, and I'd hate to see one feature hold up the upgrade. I'm always a huge fan of stripping down and streamlining things, and I'm glad to see CD go in that direction! |
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Spotlights....... I too enjoy these greatly. I've found many interesting and informative topics by simply clicking and intriguing spotlight. I would be disappointed by their removal. As for cleaning them up, (as mentioned previously in this thread) I really don't have much of an opinion. Whether they do or they don't, won't make a whole lot of difference from my point of view. I'm still a relatively new member of this forum after all.
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I too enjoy looking at the spotlights. Some of them are good for a laugh (usually from the "quotes" thread). Others go to places that make people think. The great thing about them is that you never quite know what the link will bring up--technical discussion, chit-chat, or maybe Car Nack.
Edit: However, a number of them do seem to lead to "Invalid thread specified". Those should definitely be removed if there's any removal. |
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Spotlights rock.
Sticky threads - not so much. There are a BUNCH of outdated/obsolete/just plain useless stickied threads that take up a ton of space at the top of the forum pages. |
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Did some thinking last night when my computer was off; what if you limit spotlighting posts to those with a full bar of rep/ >1000 posts? That way whoever is spotlighting a post clearly knows what they're doing and won't waste the forum's time with useless tripe.
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I understand a lot of the sentiments in this thread, and overall I'm somewhere in the middle in terms of the spotlight system.
I totally get and agree with Karthik and the others thinking along those lines. Spotlights lately have been at best silly and at worst something no one will understand in the future at all. Seriously, look at page 1 of the Spotlight list and compare it to page 51. You can't argue that there hasn't been a drop in quality content. I also agree with Gregor. So much of what I've learned about FRC was from months of reading every spotlit thread I could get my hands on. When I was a bored, inspired high schooler with a whole summer of nothing to do, I read at least a dozen of those threads a day and soaked up knowledge like a sponge. Some method to preserve quality threads and posts is beneficial. Ultimately, though, I want the solution that lets us upgrade VB as quickly as possible. There are a lot of new features that would be very beneficial to the community. I personally don't care for / won't use social media integration, but VB's Social Groups in particular have a lot of potential. Depending on implementation, teams could make their own private Social Groups. This would help encourage more CD use and also provide a place for teams to collaborate online that isn't Facebook. So my proposal is simple: Get rid of Spotlights in software as we know them. Archive all of the threads and quotes somewhere. Then, on an independent website (or at least, not a VB page), we can start compiling links to good threads. If there's a resource somewhere with lots of insightful CD threads that's kept up to date by a handful of users, then students can still learn from them as Gregor and I have. It could also collect inspirational quotes like Spotlights are supposed to do, if we want. Basically, I'm saying there's no reason we can't replicate the functionality of Spotlight as a community outside of a custom vBulletin plugin that impedes updates. Quote:
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+1 to everything Chris is Me said. I'll move my earlier sentiments to that camp.
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Would you mind generating a version of the Spotlight table with all of the entries on one static page? That way the content can be preserved in context (as opposed to sifting through the old posts manually).
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Thanks for everything you do, Brandon! |
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Is it just me, or are the spotlights that appear at the top of the page a small subset of the full list? Maybe keep only that subset on the spotlight page?
I agree with others that have said there are too many forums and too many stickied threads in the popular forums. And will there be any discussion of the reputation system? I certainly think it could, at least, use some changes... |
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That means a quarter of the threads displayed per page are exactly the same every page, and some have been locked for years. One is even a link back to another sticked thread! They're all important, but they're also using up some really important screen space and repeating each other a lot. It's silly that you have to scroll down (at least on my monitor) before you even see a 'real' thread in the general forum. A bunch could be moved into the READ THESE THREADS FIRST! announcement at the top of the page, or a new 'bestof' subforum. |
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I know that by now there have been hundreds of posts commenting on the spotlights. Personally, I really enjoy seeing some new gem of wisdom (or silliness) every time I look up! And just like many have said, having someone clean out the junk would be a much better alternative to just deleting them all together. It is true that there are wonderful links to past discussions that are hidden under all of the inside jokes piled in that section. I'll add my name to the petition for keeping the spotlight posts:)
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UFH did a fantastic job introducing many outstanding but lesser-known mentors (including many who are now pretty much legendary for their contributions to the world of competitive educational robotics*). There were also multiple active CD members that volunteered to oversee the administration behind the scenes, but this is no longer. Now there are many programs and endeavors that have effectively replaced this type of recognition. They served their purpose. It's time to go. *In today's world they call this legendary listing "the IFI company directory". |
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I have always enjoyed the spotlights. I make it a point to read them. Honestly, it makes me smile when I see one of mine. It's a grass roots pat on the back from the community. When I maintained my blog, I set up a feed from them on it.
We need to do what is best for Chief Delphi. Adding in the social media aspects hopefully will bring more users in and bring some traffic back. Could we make it an user option? Turn it on or off depending on how much value it adds to your Chief Delphi experience? |
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Re: spotlights:
As for being impossibly long: I am probably only 5 or so pages from reading *all* of the spotlighted quotes. (I took a break from CD for a while... ;)) The "good" quotes can remind us of what FIRST stands for and why we're here. But, even the funny/"bad" ones can brighten someone's day (namely, mine :)) as they see some engineer/programming joke pop up. Sure, there are some that would totally require clicking the "view thread" link to see, but even the silly comments can bring up some interesting threads. Technical difficulty aside from upgrading, do they really annoy people that much? If you really hate them, you can use Adblock Plus to block the "spotlight" table element. As a programmer, I totally understand the desire to retire the feature if it requires more work for an upgrade. So, I totally support removing the feature if it's too much work to upgrade. That said, if they're removed, would saving an archive of all of those quotes in a *.csv or *.txt file should be pretty straightforward? (I forget if it was disclosed how those spotlights are maintained/stored, but I have this odd feeling it's in an XML, CSV, or text file.) If they could be archived for future readers, that would be totally awesome. :) |
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Originally it sounded like the changes would be seen over the next few weeks, but it's been a month since the headline hit CD...
I'm sure I'm not the only one who is eagerly awaiting the new CD :p Any news on where we are in the process? I realize this is a big undertaking, is there anything the community can do to help? :) |
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They have started making some minor changes. For example the unsung first heros feature has been removed.
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It's the tried and true method.
Put a CDer in a pot of boiing changes and they will hop out. But slowly make changes, and the CDer won't notice until it's all done (cooked) :rolleyes: |
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I am of the opinion that the spotlights are a good thing to have around. Maybe there are some inside jokes in there, and maybe it's not all useful. But it's fun to go and explore in there. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have a committee go through and weed out the ones that don't belong there, but I have to say that I can't really see a downside from keeping them.
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In a pique of irony, I found this thread because of Karthik's spotlighted post about getting rid of spotlights....
I like the spotlights, even the silly ones. |
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You should really add some AJAX chatrooms for people to discuss about a topic without having to wait for a forum reply. It may boost forum efficiency by a lot
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For one, it would complicate things. Someone starts a topic about a specific issue, which has been already discussed in length in chat. Also, it would be harder for users to search the forum to find past threads, if things had been discussed in chat (this is a big concern actually, since most of my CD use has shifted from reading random posts to using it as a resource, somewhat like google search) The second point is that chatrooms cause forum traffic to drop, and discourage regular posting. Why make a thread if you can just ask it in chat? And because of that, forum participation drops. This happened on another forum I am on, that one almost died. As for efficiency, I need to point out that most users don't stay on CD for prolonged amounts of time. Mostly, we come on, check the frontpage, forums and sub-forums we're interested in, and that's it. Oh, and there's a chatroom, #firstchat on Freenode if you really want. Warning: it's highly disused... |
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Forums are designed to encourage people posting collected, coherent discussion to fuel the discourse of a community over a long period of time, also providing a place to be referenced in the future for ideas and a cornerstone of a community's history. Chief Delphi is a slice of FIRSTthropology, or something, like our own little town hall. A chatroom doesn't have any of these benefits and comes with drawbacks that create word vomit and provide nothing of use to the community long-term. There are "chatroom opportunities" through other outlets with FIRSTers, be it webstreams or Facebook messaging, but I don't think a chatroom here is in the best interests of the community. It's like putting a middle school cafeteria in a courthouse.
Of course I'm not an admin, so this opinion is worth about as much as a disco record or AOL Free Trail CD. |
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When you upgrade, do you have a plan to combat the ridiculous amount of spam?
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Serously though... IMHO, CD-Swap was one of the greatest things here, especially during the build season!... FYI - It has helped out (and saved the bacon) for MANY teams. True, it is not used much OFF season, but over the years it has been a real lifesaver for several of my teams during the build. OOC... Was there REALLY a lot of "overhead" in running CD-Swap? If the "auto=delete-post-upon-ageout" tool is automatic and already running, it seems to me to be an extremely high value added sub-forum, with little need for admin time overhead. It also helps keep the other sub-forums much cleaner. Now if you aren't interested in restarting CD-Swap, can you at least create a general "Swap & Sale" sub-forum instead (possibly off of the General forum)? That will at least help keep a lot of part exchange and "Help Me find {whatever}" postings from cluttering up all of the other forums. Thanks! - Keith ... Very sad, to see CD-Swap go... |
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Just throwing my opinion in but I think Twitter/Facebook integration would be awesome, and though I have never used it and wasn't aware of it untill now, CD-Swap sounds like an amazing idea. Threads on that topic are too easily 'lost in the weeds' with all the other threads.
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In case anyone misses CD-swap and wants to buy/sell stuff: https://www.facebook.com/groups/frcgaragesale/
There's a decent bunch of us that actually use it, picked up some good stuff recently. |
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Thanks for waiting until after Valentine's day to delete the Spotlight feature. I always think of penny Valentine's cards we gave away to classmates in school. And how appropriate is the one I'm looking at "You're so Vexy.". :rolleyes:
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I would love to see a section added to CD-Media for STL/Cad printer files.
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Hey Brandon, any idea when the vBulletin upgrade is gonna happen?
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Is this a good place to put feature requests Brandon? I think conversations here will be a lot more civil if there's a way to (publically) show appreciation without a "me-too" post. You could use a plug-in like these: 1, 2, 3 to add "thanks" or "like/dislike" buttons (and totals) to posts.
Are you considering moving to another platform like Xenforo? |
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I'd ask for a revised ETA, but I'm betting it'll be "later this year, hopefully". :p |
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I have been waiting on some new forum software to be finished before I do anything else. Once it is out of beta, I plan on migrating ChiefDelphi from vBulletin to Flarum. If that happens to be after FRC kickoff, I'll wait until after the season is over.
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