Thoughts?
 

Posted by Kate T190 at 1/6/2001 3:16 PM EST


Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute.



What's everyone think about what's new this year so far as what's happening at the actual competitions??

The first being how seeding to eliminations works.. Seeds 1 and 5, 2 and 6, 3 and 7, 4 and 8 are together-- automatically.. And then from there teams go through the normal rotation of picking teams to be with them through the elimination rounds.. They get to pick 3 more teams!! Is it a good thing that there are going to be 5 winners at each competition?? What do you do if a backup team just gets a "free ride" up to the title and didn't go in for a single match?? Is it fair to be giving them claim to the title??

The other thing is that the nationals have been split up into different "regions", but this isn't geographically related.. Betcha it's gonna be random.. And we most likely won't be finding out until we get to nationals who's going to be in our group.. These groups, good, bad, neutral??

Share your thoughts on this.. I'm interested.. :)

T190 XO
Kate

Kate posted the same message! I'll answer her's!
 

Posted by colleen -- T190 at 1/6/2001 3:25 PM EST


Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Massachusetts Academy of Math and Science and WPI.


In Reply to: Thoughts?
Posted by Kate T190 on 1/6/2001 3:16 PM EST:



So yeah----

I think that the auto pairing of those in the top seed is a cool idea.. it kind of makes sure everyone gets two decently strong robots (hopefully) and then can strategically choose the rest...

As for divided Nationals... I think it's a good thing.. it will help ease scouting and keep the flow going (since there are 4 air-conditioned fields at nationals.. i assume you will play all your matches in your division on that field (4divisions, 4fields ya know..)) This should help people from getting lost or the whole "we thought we were on that field.."

We don't need no stinkin' air conditioning!!
 

Posted by Kate T190 at 1/6/2001 3:32 PM EST


Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute.


In Reply to: Kate posted the same message! I'll answer her's!
Posted by colleen -- T190 on 1/6/2001 3:25 PM EST:



Bring back the heat exhaustion!! It's no fun if you're not practically dying!!

But in all seriousness.. I had A LOT more fun back in the day where we didn't have the privilege of air conditioned tents.. Besides, then, I actually got a tan.. Because the sun just doesn't come through those tents that are air conditioned to give you a tan.. And I'm not exactly getting any more color in my skin by sitting in front of a computer screen!! :P

T190 XO
Kate

must agree :-)
 

Posted by colleen -- T190 at 1/6/2001 3:35 PM EST


Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Massachusetts Academy of Math and Science and WPI.


In Reply to: We don't need no stinkin' air conditioning!!
Posted by Kate T190 on 1/6/2001 3:32 PM EST:



in that respect... i have to agree... i definitely miss the days outside...

you just have to learn how to drink a lot of fluids... i know disney water is like $7 a drop or whatever.. but i do miss it outside

Re: We don't need no stinkin' air conditioning!!
 

Posted by Nate Smith at 1/6/2001 3:35 PM EST


Other on team #66, GM Powertrain/Willow Run HS, from Eastern Michigan University and GM Powertrain.


In Reply to: We don't need no stinkin' air conditioning!!
Posted by Kate T190 on 1/6/2001 3:32 PM EST:



But then there's those of us who didn't get to spend any time in it anyway...there was supposedly air conditioning in the GM tent(my home for the entire 2000 national competition,) but I couldn't tell...oh well, maybe this yeah...


Nate

air conditioning!! . .. sure we do
 

Posted by Veronica at 1/6/2001 9:41 PM EST


Student on team #27, Team Rush, from Osmtech and Textron.


In Reply to: We don't need no stinkin' air conditioning!!
Posted by Kate T190 on 1/6/2001 3:32 PM EST:



: Ihave to disagree a tan is good but all that time in the sun equals burnt team members and that is no fun, plus sun worshiping is no good for ur skin! And also, you would always be all hot and sweaty!! way gross! i'd perfer to stay non sweaty and yucky. and there is plenty of sun out on the Einstein field or it's equivlent this year

Bring back the heat exhaustion!! It's no fun if you're not practically dying!!

: But in all seriousness.. I had A LOT more fun back in the day where we didn't have the privilege of air conditioned tents.. Besides, then, I actually got a tan.. Because the sun just doesn't come through those tents that are air conditioned to give you a tan.. And I'm not exactly getting any more color in my skin by sitting in front of a computer screen!! :P

: T190 XO
: Kate

no more a/c! ;-)
 

Posted by bill whitley at 1/6/2001 11:09 PM EST


Student on team #70, Auto City Bandits, from Powers Catholic High School and Kettering University.


In Reply to: air conditioning!! . .. sure we do
Posted by Veronica on 1/6/2001 9:41 PM EST:



Who needs a/c? Being from Michigan, I will relish the warm weather! Plus I love going back to school and being so tan. It makes it so fun when somebody tries telling me I'm geeky for being in robotics. Their arguments usually fall apart when you mention the tan, and the 5 day expenses paid trip to FLORIDA. ;-) I can't wait for nationals.

Bill.

No more INDOOR FIELDS!!!
 

Posted by Lora Knepper at 1/7/2001 4:40 PM EST


Other on team #419, Rambots, from UMass Boston / Boston College High School and Seeking Sponsorship.


In Reply to: We don't need no stinkin' air conditioning!!
Posted by Kate T190 on 1/6/2001 3:32 PM EST:



: I had A LOT more fun back in the day where we didn't have the privilege of air conditioned tents..

I totally agree with you Kate! I got a few odd looks from the FIRST staff when I groaned as they announced the indoor fields again - but I absolutely HATED them. I miss being on the outdoor fields, and last year, the only time my team (69) played outdoors was for a practice round....it was horrible! Not to mention with 3 fields in the same tent it was impossible to *think*, nevermind hear what your coaches/allies were saying! I have nothing good to say about them at all.

If a/c is so important, then move the national to somewhere cold...why bother with Florida if you are going to hide in a tent all day?

~ Lora
(who really really really really hated the *concept* of indoor fields, hated them even more in practice, and is praying for the return of the 3 outdoor stadiums from 1998)

Another vote for a change in venue setup..
 

Posted by Jon at 1/8/2001 3:25 AM EST


Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute.


In Reply to: No more INDOOR FIELDS!!!
Posted by Lora Knepper on 1/7/2001 4:40 PM EST:



booyah!
While i like the comfort factor, i highly dislike the indoor setup... if its gonna be indoors, make it like a three ring circus... surround each field with bleachers and preferably put each field in their own tent. the noise spillover was horrible and i really don't like having only one viewing angle... then teams can't get close to the field to cheer, there are cameramen in the way... why can't they be on the other side? aiiieee!



: : I had A LOT more fun back in the day where we didn't have the privilege of air conditioned tents..

: I totally agree with you Kate! I got a few odd looks from the FIRST staff when I groaned as they announced the indoor fields again - but I absolutely HATED them. I miss being on the outdoor fields, and last year, the only time my team (69) played outdoors was for a practice round....it was horrible! Not to mention with 3 fields in the same tent it was impossible to *think*, nevermind hear what your coaches/allies were saying! I have nothing good to say about them at all.

: If a/c is so important, then move the national to somewhere cold...why bother with Florida if you are going to hide in a tent all day?

: ~ Lora
: (who really really really really hated the *concept* of indoor fields, hated them even more in practice, and is praying for the return of the 3 outdoor stadiums from 1998)

INDOOR FIELDS
 

Posted by Kyle Fenton at 1/10/2001 8:37 PM EST


Student on team #121, The Islanders, from Middletown High School, Middleton RI and NUWC.


In Reply to: No more INDOOR FIELDS!!!
Posted by Lora Knepper on 1/7/2001 4:40 PM EST:



I agree with you Lora.
Last year the indoor fields were way over crowded.
It was impossible to tape. The lighting conditions
were horrible, people were always in the way of the
shot, and so maybe other things. Another thing is
that there was barley enough walking space,
robots who were not on the field had to stand out in
the hallway waiting forever. And another thing is
that there had to be a traffic person with red batons
slapping people to go the right way, and you
couldn't stop for a moment.
Florida is warm enough, I will rather be outside in
more open space, than setting in the aisles of the
bleachers.

Re: INDOOR FIELDS
 

Posted by Geoff Sensel at 1/14/2001 6:42 PM EST


Student on team #45, Technokats, from Kokomo High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.


In Reply to: INDOOR FIELDS
Posted by Kyle Fenton on 1/10/2001 8:37 PM EST:



I agree and scouting is a pain on those fields. Like
if you wanted to leave the field and the score of a
match was announced that you needed to write
down, so you stopped to get it there would be so
many Disney people on your butt in 5 seconds or
less. Also if the air conditioning goes out it will
wind up as hot if not hotter than it is outside.

Passing on Nationals w/o indoor fields...
 

Posted by Joe Johnson at 1/14/2001 9:32 PM EST


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.


In Reply to: Re: INDOOR FIELDS
Posted by Geoff Sensel on 1/14/2001 6:42 PM EST:



The Nationals are an important part of FIRST, but
honestly, 2 years ago I swore that wouldn't go back if
they held them at Disney outdoors in late April ever again.

I am not much of a whiner, generally, but the heat that
year was grim. About 20 people from the teams that
were not in the finals actually watched them live
(Brian Beatty and myself were amount them). The rest
(a few hundred) watched them on the Jumbotron in the pits.

I am a big fan of the indoor pits at Disney. Is there
room for improvement? you bet. But let's not throw the
baby out with the bathwater.

This year, if they do it right, it could be almost as
fun as a regional. With 1/4 of the teams always
playing on the same field and always playing teams from
the same subgroup, I thing that the atmosphere of a
good regional is realistically possible. Let's hope
they do it right.

Joe J.

Re: INDOOR FIELDS
 

Posted by David Kelso at 1/15/2001 8:40 AM EST


Coach on team #131, C.H.A.O.S.-, from Central High School and OSRAM SYLVANIA/ Fleet .


In Reply to: Re: INDOOR FIELDS
Posted by Geoff Sensel on 1/14/2001 6:42 PM EST:



As an advisor, it is really a bad choice to send groups of kids off to outside fields for a few hours at a time in that heat. Student health comes before getting a nice tan. Our New England kids can only take so much sun in April before they dry up like a prune. Keep the indoor fields. Having to watch matches inside on monitors is pretty dull

Re: Thoughts?
 

Posted by Nate Smith at 1/6/2001 3:26 PM EST


Other on team #66, GM Powertrain/Willow Run HS, from Eastern Michigan University and GM Powertrain.


In Reply to: Thoughts?
Posted by Kate T190 on 1/6/2001 3:16 PM EST:



: What's everyone think about what's new this year so far as what's happening at the actual competitions??

: The first being how seeding to eliminations works.. Seeds 1 and 5, 2 and 6, 3 and 7, 4 and 8 are together-- automatically.. And then from there teams go through the normal rotation of picking teams to be with them through the elimination rounds.. They get to pick 3 more teams!! Is it a good thing that there are going to be 5 winners at each competition?? What do you do if a backup team just gets a "free ride" up to the title and didn't go in for a single match?? Is it fair to be giving them claim to the title??

As for the "free ride" teams, you were seeing that already to a point over the past couple of years...I don't think that, without getting rid of the "standby" team completely, you could ever eliminate this problem...well, you could put in a rule that would require each team to play at least once, but I'm sure there would be just a few people not very happy with that...

: The other thing is that the nationals have been split up into different "regions", but this isn't geographically related.. Betcha it's gonna be random.. And we most likely won't be finding out until we get to nationals who's going to be in our group.. These groups, good, bad, neutral??

I've been mixed on the whole "regions" at nationals idea since it was first brought up, but if you really think about it(like I finally did), it's always that way to a point...with the large number of teams down in Florida, you're only seeing a small portion of them anyway...at least you won't have to scout everybody at first...I'm seeing the possibility of a "region" option on the scouting system this year...still too early to tell, however...

Nate

Re: Thoughts?
 

Posted by Kate T190 at 1/6/2001 3:40 PM EST


Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute.


In Reply to: Re: Thoughts?
Posted by Nate Smith on 1/6/2001 3:26 PM EST:



Where would people not be happy about having to play at least one match to claim a title?? I mean, isn't a title supposed to mean something?? It's usually something to be earned.. Maybe it's just me.. But y'know.. Whatever..

So far as "regions" go at nationals.. I haven't really thought about it since it's become a reality.. But I really like nationals for the fact that I get to see all my friends-- WHILE I'm doing my job of scouting.. And now that it's going to be split in 4.. I doubt I'll get to see my friends a lot.. In my mind, winning regionals is a higher "honor" than winning nationals (no offense to anyone who's only won nationals and no regionals yet).. I just think the competition is closer to home and better competition..

And on the whole thing about the "regions".. Do you think they're going to be splitting the tent up into those regions at all??

T190 XO
Kate

Re: Thoughts?
 

Posted by Nate Smith at 1/6/2001 3:48 PM EST


Other on team #66, GM Powertrain/Willow Run HS, from Eastern Michigan University and GM Powertrain.


In Reply to: Re: Thoughts?
Posted by Kate T190 on 1/6/2001 3:40 PM EST:



: Where would people not be happy about having to play at least one match to claim a title?? I mean, isn't a title supposed to mean something?? It's usually something to be earned.. Maybe it's just me.. But y'know.. Whatever..

Well, I guess just those of us who have gotten a title without playing(not either of my teams, of course =) would be the ones upset by it...but we'll see...

: So far as "regions" go at nationals.. I haven't really thought about it since it's become a reality.. But I really like nationals for the fact that I get to see all my friends-- WHILE I'm doing my job of scouting..And now that it's going to be split in 4.. I doubt I'll get to see my friends a lot..

Well, that's why you can just spend time tracking us down like you've done before...and hopefully, you won't end up playing "pit tag" like you and I did in '99...but I digress...

: In my mind, winning regionals is a higher "honor" than winning nationals (no offense to anyone who's only won nationals and no regionals yet).. I just think the competition is closer to home and better competition..

: And on the whole thing about the "regions".. Do you think they're going to be splitting the tent up into those regions at all??

I'm guessing you mean the pit tent...and unless they have the regions figured out early enough for them to get the info to Disney/Freeman Decorating, it's hard to say if they'd be able to do this...

Just the latest ramblings from the mind of Nate

Re: Thoughts?
 

Posted by bill whitley at 1/6/2001 4:01 PM EST


Student on team #70, Auto City Bandits, from Powers Catholic High School and Kettering University.


In Reply to: Re: Thoughts?
Posted by Nate Smith on 1/6/2001 3:48 PM EST:



: : Where would people not be happy about having to play at least one match to claim a title?? I mean, isn't a title supposed to mean something?? It's usually something to be earned.. Maybe it's just me.. But y'know.. Whatever..

: Well, I guess just those of us who have gotten a title without playing(not either of my teams, of course =) would be the ones upset by it...but we'll see...

: : So far as "regions" go at nationals.. I haven't really thought about it since it's become a reality.. But I really like nationals for the fact that I get to see all my friends-- WHILE I'm doing my job of scouting..And now that it's going to be split in 4.. I doubt I'll get to see my friends a lot..

: Well, that's why you can just spend time tracking us down like you've done before...and hopefully, you won't end up playing "pit tag" like you and I did in '99...but I digress...

: : In my mind, winning regionals is a higher "honor" than winning nationals (no offense to anyone who's only won nationals and no regionals yet).. I just think the competition is closer to home and better competition..

: : And on the whole thing about the "regions".. Do you think they're going to be splitting the tent up into those regions at all??

: I'm guessing you mean the pit tent...and unless they have the regions figured out early enough for them to get the info to Disney/Freeman Decorating, it's hard to say if they'd be able to do this...

: Just the latest ramblings from the mind of Nate

I think that the regions were a very necessary change. One 370 team region was just too big. The 80 team regions will make the competition much more intimate.

I'm not much of a fan of this game though. It's taking all of the competition, out of FIRST. It's no longer red alliance vs. blue alliance. It's robots versus a problem. I think this is a leap backwards from FIRST going mainstream. I envision these matches becoming incredibly repeditive.

Although, everytime I have doubted FIRST, it has overwhelmed me in every aspect. I hope the same will happen this time.

Bill.

Re: Thoughts?
 

Posted by Veronica at 1/6/2001 9:43 PM EST


Student on team #27, Team Rush, from Osmtech and Textron.


In Reply to: Thoughts?
Posted by Kate T190 on 1/6/2001 3:16 PM EST:



: as far as the free ride for the fifth partner it was the same way lasy year say u picked the l;ast ranked team for your back up bot and they never played they still got the first place title. i'm not sure if i like this or not

read my other one first lol my bad sorry guys
 

Posted by Veronica at 1/6/2001 9:49 PM EST


Student on team #27, Team Rush, from Osmtech and Textron.


In Reply to: Thoughts?
Posted by Kate T190 on 1/6/2001 3:16 PM EST:



in addition to my other post . . i think though that if you get rid of the back up team because it is gettin a free ride then u will be hurting yourself. Think how many times you have had to put the back up team in for a broken bot, all of those matches probably would have been lost and plus it is nice when the alliances let all three bots play


: What's everyone think about what's new this year so far as what's happening at the actual competitions??

: The first being how seeding to eliminations works.. Seeds 1 and 5, 2 and 6, 3 and 7, 4 and 8 are together-- automatically.. And then from there teams go through the normal rotation of picking teams to be with them through the elimination rounds.. They get to pick 3 more teams!! Is it a good thing that there are going to be 5 winners at each competition?? What do you do if a backup team just gets a "free ride" up to the title and didn't go in for a single match?? Is it fair to be giving them claim to the title??

: The other thing is that the nationals have been split up into different "regions", but this isn't geographically related.. Betcha it's gonna be random.. And we most likely won't be finding out until we get to nationals who's going to be in our group.. These groups, good, bad, neutral??

: Share your thoughts on this.. I'm interested.. :)

: T190 XO
: Kate

don't TOTALLY get rid of backup team
 

Posted by Kate T190 at 1/7/2001 8:09 PM EST


Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute.


In Reply to: read my other one first lol my bad sorry guys
Posted by Veronica on 1/6/2001 9:49 PM EST:



I'm not saying that I want to get rid of the backup team all together.. It's more that if it's a free ride, then I don't feel they should get a title for doing nothing.. I'm totally for a team that plays 1 match but sitting out for the rest of the time.. But I don't want a team that did nothing to get a title.. Doesn't seem right to me..

T190 XO
Kate

they already proved their worth
 

Posted by bill whitley at 1/7/2001 8:25 PM EST


Student on team #70, Auto City Bandits, from Powers Catholic High School and Kettering University.


In Reply to: don't TOTALLY get rid of backup team
Posted by Kate T190 on 1/7/2001 8:09 PM EST:



The 5th team doesnt get just a title. That team had to prove their worth to get chosen in the alliance. I don't think there should be a requirement for them to be in any of the finals matches.

Bill

I agree with Kate
 

Posted by colleen -- T190 at 1/7/2001 9:29 PM EST


Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Massachusetts Academy of Math and Science and WPI.


In Reply to: they already proved their worth
Posted by bill whitley on 1/7/2001 8:25 PM EST:



I think that if you're going to receive the title for doing something.. it's only appropriate that you earn it...

Maybe... FIRST should have you declare a "spare" team in advance... such that they can't be switched in as last year and may only be used in replace of a broken robot... if they play.. they are considered part of a winning alliance.. if they don't.. they were the spare...

I agree.. if you didn't do anything.. you didn't do anything to earn a medal..

But.. seeing as we're heading into the "You can't win, you can't lose.. you can only score points..." era, I see many free rides in the future