Re: A New Way to Scout
 

My team has access to over 20 NXTs that is a great Idea.

Re: A New Way to Scout
 

I also think this would be great. It would be fun to play around with even if teams waited till after the season.

As for a format, one year we had a scouting program that stored everything in text files in the form:
<match#> <team#> <property name> <value>

So you'd get lines that said something like:

Re: A New Way to Scout
 

Yep. That kind-of doesn't seem too accurate because this is about the 2006? control system!

Re: A New Way to Scout
 

So, with this data storage, are you using text-based database? If so:

match/team#/climb code (0=no,1=10,2=20,3=30)
That would be a lot more readable to PHP and easier to implement. However, it would be important to note that text-based isn't so reliable. If this software is running for multiple teams, every time a match ends, the server will get a huge load. Multiple appends to the same file at the same time, many times, means a corrupt file. Instead, MySQL or some other database server built to store information may be the lifesaver!
The only time I used text databases is when I was learning PHP and using it on a site that maxes out at a view per day!

Re: A New Way to Scout
 

I'm very interested in your platform; 20 has been working on our own solution called Gemini. It too isn't designed to replace paper scouting, but to aggregate and calculate statistics. We've also scouted with other teams at WPI, Connecticut, Champs, and IRI, so our system was designed with that in mind. Once the finishing touches get finalized, I'll post the codebase here.

Re: A New Way to Scout
 

My apologies. I was actually agreeing with you. I see no point in keeping raw data away from teams.



Now, I offer a more broad question to those not interested in waiting to make the information public.

As a community, we see nothing wrong with helping a team make their robot more competative at an event. It's considered a good thing. It helps lift the floor of the competition, right? We share all our "best practices" in hopes that it makes others better.

For those of you against this, or even just suggesting we wait until after the competition: why? I don't understand why you have a problem with it, and I'm trying to understand. In my mind, I see it the same way as helping a robot. We're trying to make teams better.

Perhaps I'm understanding this incorrectly (or others are), the goal would be to share the raw data, correct? We're not asking anyone to share how they manipulate the data. Just work together to get the data and let teams do whatever they choose with it. Correct?

Re: A New Way to Scout
 

I agree; that's why we've scouted collaboratively before. Not only does it share data that would be hard for smaller, more challenged teams to get, but it also develops great inter-team relationships.

However, not all teams share that view, and that's perfectly fine.

I think that's a topic that deserves more discussion. It seems we have three platforms that have been brought up, and if a unified system is to be achieved, we should discuss how that's implemented.

There are arguments to be made for both sides.

As of now, few enough teams are able to collect good data that good data is itself a competitive advantage. That's why I originally thought that data should be kept within teams of the scouting alliance.

In any case, data will eventually become so widespread that good data will be everywhere (think stock market data). When that comes, data analysis (which is already extremely important) will become even more important.

It's up to us as a community to decide when that will be though. I liked 1306scouting's idea of giving out separate lists to teams pause the scouting alliance.

Re: A New Way to Scout
 

I agree 100%. There is no substitute for hard data, but having someone that actually remembers what the robots look like, how they play,what they do in a match and so on is very benefical. At events for my team, I watch one or two teams a match and write qualitative notes down. At the end of the event I know the basics of every team (and a lot about certain teams) and could make a pretty good pick list. But, I'm always surprised when going through the data to see how well or how poorly some teams actually do (consistency, especially in autonomous, is typically the biggest source for deviation). It simply comes down to not being able to watch every match for every team.

Re: A New Way to Scout
 

On the topic of keeping data private versus sharing it with the world:

It's a huge waste of time for every team to dedicate 7+ people to compiling the same exact set of statistics. If a community effort produced the same thing with far less total effort, the teams with the most effective scouting systems could instead put that effort into creating more advanced statistics and improving their qualitative scouting and their methods of collecting and using that qualitative data. Those teams would still have a competitive advantage to show for their efforts.

Re: A New Way to Scout
 

I agree that it can be a waste to have 7+ people constantly looking for the same set of statistics. However, some larger teams use that as a way to help teach newer members about scouting/strategy. Every experience helps a younger member.

Re: A New Way to Scout
 

That is what FRC is about, right? Anyway, I wouldn't see a problem if raw data was released, and not the analysis, interpretation, or anything similar. While we might think the game is the primary focus, we're all here to learn.
The only problem with releasing data, is that it'd be hard to get all the data world-wide in a real-time format, with enough time for choosing good alliance partners.
But those are the musings of a 1-year veteran. Shared data would help a lot of teams, esp. those with small or non-existant scouting teams.

Re: A New Way to Scout
 

Well, if you can't believe Mycroft, who can you trust? :) (You're just lucky Mycroft is too lazy to prove he's right.)

It's also true that not every team has a "Mycroft", so alternatives have to be made anyway. Our team is also developing a "crowd" type scouting system, which does seem the way to do it -- the more data in, the better. Though in general two people can always have opposite conclusions for the same bit of data.

Re: A New Way to Scout
 

It's a challenging task that students can learn from, true. But it's still duplicating the same work dozens of times at each event, and that carries an opportunity cost. Think of all of those hours of work put to use in other ways. I think the product on the field would improve.

I think we'll eventually have a system that makes stats from every event freely available, much like results and standings are available from FRC Spyder / TheBlueAlliance / usfirst.org / etc. When that happens, we'll still see people developing their own scouting systems to gather, aggregate, analyze, and report on additional types of scouting data.

Re: A New Way to Scout
 

No, all of Erich's information is about the current-ish control system. The 2006 control system was based on a 900mhz system. In other words, what are you talking about?


As for the questions earlier on why you can't run 2.4Ghz at low power - Simple, it's easier to say "No Wifi" than it is to say "No wifi except in this situation" because then you have to police that. It's more work for an already over worked group of folks.


Nah, I think we should be sharing how we manipulate the data. Data manipulation and visualization is as much engineering as learning CAD even if it is relegated to the back rooms of scouting meetings in FRC. Course, I'm biased…