Regional Space Shortage
 

The Registration 2014 Thread is highlighting a major problem with Regionals this year.

We have too many teams who want to attend multiple events. The spots for those teams are limited

Anyone have any ideas on how to handle the problem?

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

Might free up a few spots by stopping district teams from playing in regionals. [puts on flame suit] Probably won't be enough, though--that tends to be on the order of 10-20/year. Ditto for teams going for >2 events, which is an even smaller number.

Larger-capacity regionals are an option, though not an attractive one due to higher costs to local committees (bigger venue being the biggest cost I can think of), and reduced plays for attendees.

That leaves one option--two, let's say. One is, obviously, more offseasons in the spring and summer--more plays, but they don't count towards official stuff. The other? MORE regionals (or, more likely, MORE DISTRICTS). Longer-term solution, mind you, and more volunteers would be needed for those more regionals, but that's about the best way I can think of opening up space.


The big problem is that the only one that will really work right now is larger capacity + restrictions on teams playing outside certain areas--and for the latter, it's probably too late anyway. Larger capacity... there aren't a lot of venues that could squeeze in extra teams, even by dropping the pit size to the minimum 8'x8'.

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

I like the idea of double fields, it makes it easy to add space without over crowding championship.

An 80 team event with two fields is doable, it also increases the pace of matches which is good for spectators. We do that at all of our VEX Events and it runs very smoothly. It's definitely harder in FRC and requires a lot more space but there are several venues that could easily do it.

If you have a double field event could you run a 2nd elimination bracket just for fun? Pick a standard 24 team bracket and play it on one field then get the next 8 teams in the ranking and draft again. Sort of like the NIT in college basketball. You would still alternate which field is playing a match but one of the fields decides the event winner while the other field just gives more teams playing time and something for the fans to watch between matches.

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

More regionals

Completing placement of teams from the regional wait list before opening unlimited registration so those teams know to move to other available options.

Not allowing district teams to fill regionals slots....unless Regional teams can fill slots in a district.

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

As stated...that won't be enough. Many events (ie Smoky Mountains) were full long before second event registration opened, so attending a second event was even difficult for some teams this year. (Can't blame district teams or 3+ regional teams here.)

Larger capacity seems to be an obvious answer where it is possible. I'd be glad to give up some pit space or some aisle space between pits to be more likely to get the second regional we'd like.

More events will help too - and it should be a mission to entice more mentors and graduates to volunteer (I plan to volunteer this year).

Finally Regional Directors need to do all they can to create complementary event schedules - so nearby regionals are not in back-to-back weeks (realizing that they are at the mercy of the venue schedules).

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

If this was the rule in 2013, 1477 wouldn't be a world champion right now :rolleyes:

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

hahaha 4 regionals

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

Would more people volunteer if the event were shifted to be friday,saturday and sunday? Its hard for me to volunteer when I have responsibilities to my own team at regionals and no spare vacation time to go help another regional.

I feel there is abundant volunteer activities after church on a sunday. If I were inclined to volunteer more and had to choose volunteering at a FRC event thursday, friday, saturday once a year versus volunteering at a soup kitchen on a sunday afternoon; I would pick the soup kitchen. I don't volunteer there any more but I have put in way more time at soup kitchen than volunteering for an FRC event. I don't have plans to change that fact.

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

In the case of an argument against switching to district systems, people cite unavailable volunteers. If I could volunteer Fri/Sat or Sat/Sun and not a cumbersome Thu/Fri/Sat schedule in my area, I would probably be volunteering at at least 3 events. I know this is a bit anecdotal, but I don't think it's that far off-base.

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

I understand the logic behind the "no district teams in regionals" and vice versa but from a practical standpoint it makes little difference. I can't speak for other districts, but there are only 3 MAR teams currently signed up (not waitlisted) for a regional (2016, 3314, 2237). And almost all of the districts have already reached capacity.

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

A Friday-Saturday would be my favourite event. Only one day missed of work/school, yet you still get Sunday as a sleep recovery/homework/travel home day.

I'm not looking forward to GTR W being Fri-Sunday. That Monday morning is going to be brutal, and there's no time to catch up on missed work.

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

Travel to an event that has space... http://www.usfirst.org/whats-going-on/event/10899/teams

Jason

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

An 80 field tournament gives teams at smaller tournaments a great chance to win awards ie, Chairman's, Engineering Inspiration, Rookie All Star.

Dallas had a double tournament under one roof two years ago. This provided more teams a tournament while still allowing 2 sets of winners for all of the awards. It also provided the teams with the ability to see more teams at one location. I do realize this does mean additional cost due to two fields, larger venue, etc.

I think District teams have a distinct advantage in the current system (not a popular stance, but true I think). They know they will get two district tournaments but they are allowed to register for Regional tournaments outside of their districts. This essentially means they get to register for their third tournament on the same date that non district teams get to register for a second tournament.

or Do I misunderstand how registration occurs for district teams (if I am wrong, please let me know)?

Can a district team register for a district event on the first registration date as well as register for a regional event? If so, that is even more of an advantage.

Scheduling of close regional events in back to back weeks or even on the same weekend. I can only speak for Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana region here. (I am sure others can speak for other regions). For example, Bayou and Lone Star are on the same weekend (although one day difference) thus making teams who have traditionally attended both of these to chose one or the other.
Other same weeks include: Arkansas and Hub City - second weekend
Back to Back - Alamo and Hub City - 1st and 2nd weekends

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

No, district teams could not sign up for a regional at all until unrestricted registration in early November. In other words, district teams sign up for their third event at the same time as everyone else.

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

This is due in large part to the new registration process. The process changed this year so that District teams cannot register for Regionals until Open Registration. Previously it was one stage earlier, during "2nd Event Registration". This, combined with the overall scarcity of spots at Regionals in general, makes me believe that there is a significant number of District teams on waiting lists that will cleared over the coming weeks.

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

Two regionals at one time also means you need twice the queuing crew, twice the judges, twice the awards. A double field event (single regional) could be added today for Lone Star 2014 and not really change anything. You would need more volunteers but not double the volunteers. It does decrease teams chances of winning awards but that seems like an okay price to pay while we are working through this problem. I would prefer a double regional but that also means we would have to figure out how to divide teams that are already registered for the event.

The long term answer to this problem is the expansion of the district system but that's not something we can do for the 2014 system.

Also moving events doesn't really help the capacity problem just the choice problem. I was disappointed that Bayou and Lone Star is the same weekend but I also know that there is nearly nothing that the RDs can do, most of the time they struggle to even get the weekend they can get. When we move to the district system it should be much easier to get High School Gym dates than it is to get convention center dates.

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

I don't have the statistical analysis in front of me (just some research for a paper) but I think district teams going to regionals is last on this list

->More teams
->Fewer regionals (I think the net loss is 3?)
->More teams opting to go to two regionals than before because
-->Fewer matches are available at regionals now
-->For the most part, CMP is qualify-only now
->District exclusivity applying to regional teams looking for district play nearby/nearby districts looking for inter-district play
->District exclusivity not applying for district teams looking for a regional

Is that all?

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

It' be nice to see Louisiana, Mississippi, and Texas combine for a district system.

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

Thanks for the clarification. I had just made the assumption but am glad to know for sure.

Norman

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

I feel like this will fast forward the conversion of most/all of the remaining regions into districts and district championships. Part of the issue is the teams from districts (and I'm on one) that have the resources to hit one or more Regionals as well as their 2-3 districts are taking spots away from teams that don't have districts. Don't flame me because I don't believe that district teams should be limited to only their district events.

Obviously, the quick answer is more Regionals, more room but that adds more cost to more communities to host them. I think with the plan to move completely over to districts may limit how many more Regional competitions will be created.

I hope they figure out an innovative fix, which I have full confidence that FIRST will, for this problem.

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

I'm just spitballing here. What if an event tried hosting two consecutive regionals in the same venue with the first one taking place Thursday through Saturday and the second one running Sunday through Tuesday. You'd still need about twice as many volunteer hours, but maybe there would be some significant cost savings associated with only occupying the venue for one weekend, and it might be logistically easier than planning new regionals in new venues.

Meh. Let's grow the volunteer base and sprout a whole bunch of new district events in gyms.

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

How about Dean & Co start a campaign to get sponsors to donate employee work days as an innovative way of sponsoring FIRST? Send an employee to an event for two days to volunteer and don't charge them any vacation days.

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

Glad someone posted on this.

1678 is waitlisted for Inland Empire and SVR. We will continue to do everything we can to get into these events, namely talking to our RD and begging to be let in. IE is a high probability, and SVR is most likely not going to happen. (PS. Anyone know what LVR waitlist is like? Might consider hopping over there)

California has always been hard to get the events you want. It's getting even harder now that more rookies are coming on board than expected (not bad, just makes it harder for teams like us)

My question: Canada, what are you doing right? 1114 is already registered for 3 events in Canada! They obviously have the space for their teams, while California does not.

I love CA FIRST, but I think when it comes to Regional Events, the teams here get hosed, especially in 2014. 6 events for 230+ teams is rough.

-Mike

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

This is true and should be planned for well in advance.

QUOTE=AllenGregoryIV;1304386]A double field event (single regional) could be added today for Lone Star 2014 and not really change anything. You would need more volunteers but not double the volunteers.[/quote]

The additional expense of having two fields at a site would have to be factored in. I know that Lone Star has the room but not all venues do.

I do agree with you here especially if it gets teams more matches at a tournament.


Getting smaller venues and high schools will open more possibilities for locations for sure.

Good conversation here that is very thought provoking.

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

Having 5 events in Ontario for 115 teams makes it a lot easier for Ontario teams to get into multiple events. 1241 was able to get into 4 Ontario regionals this year!

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

That's what 4322 ended up doing. We tried for San Diego and LA, but both were already full, so we grabbed up a spot at Inland Empire and did the wait list at SD. Then we got worried, so we decided to travel to our second regional at Las Vegas instead.

It would have been nice to be able to do SD and LA though. Las Vegas is going to be both a logistical and competitive challenge. (Not that SD and LA are easy...)

I agree that it is more difficult to get two or more regionals in CA this year.

Re: Regional Space Shortage
 

On top of that, they also have started a new veteran team, 1285, going to the same regionals as 1241, sans GTRW.

I guess they'll be very busy this season.