Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST® Choice Adds Additives
 

I am not an authority but all NASA funding is tied to US based teams, so I would think it's likely there's a similar restriction for this (though the fact that they didn't mention it seems like a glaring omission, so maybe it won't be a problem).

Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST® Choice Adds Additives
 

They could probably play games and say "Well, these international teams are getting funded by money from Makerbot/etc. while these American teams are getting funded by NASA/Government money."

In the end, it would put a cap on how many non-US teams get funding.

Sounds kinda sketchy, but it sounds legal to me (and, of course, that's all that matters, right?)

Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST® Choice Adds Additives
 

The kitbot can have specific parts for the game. I can't remember if it was 2010 or 2012 that it had a 'lift kit' to help it over the bump. But you generally know exactly what you're getting. You're getting c-channel (unless they changed to sheet this year) with some belts, pulleys, wheels, and a couple transmissions. There is really no mystery.

We've never struggled to use all the parts that come with a kitbot, though last year we opted for not getting one.

People looking at the 3D printers need to think very very hard about it.3d printers require specialized technical knowledge to set up, print, and maintain. In addition, teams have to ask themselves how useful a 3d printer would be to their FIRST program. I can't think of a single part on our robot last year that could have been 3D printed. Not one.

A lot of people think '3d printer! cool!" but don't really think about everything that has to go into making one work effectively. Heck, look how many FIRST choice 3D printer jobs were never purchased.

Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST® Choice Adds Additives
 

While I know that we will opt out of the 3d printer, I think a 3d printer can be useful. If our team had a 3d printer, we wouldn't use it as a replacement for current manufacturing techniques. We would find new parts to make with a 3d printer that would make it a benefit to our team. Furthermore, we might use it to speed up our manufacturing. For example, even though we can turn spacers, we might start printing spacers so that we can spend our manpower on making other parts.

Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST® Choice Adds Additives
 

They did release that this year's kit bot is sheet metal construction and it's aprox top speed.

As mentioned it could give hints to the game or rules. Last year it was set up to confirm to the new perimeter rules and keep a similar L x W ratio as the previous max dimensions. As you mentioned they included the lift kit in the past and they also included the game specific wheels for Lunacy.

Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST® Choice Adds Additives
 

Wait, I was so caught up in the 3D printing part of the blog that I missed the most important part of it. We get 150! credits for round 1 of first choice and 450! for round two. That will either mean that some parts are going to have to be way upped in value or they will fly off the shelves faster than the towels at a Walmart on Thanksgiving! :yikes:

Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST® Choice Adds Additives
 

Or there are a lot of game pieces....

Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST® Choice Adds Additives
 

This is critical to the decision. After kickoff, once we know the game, and game-specific materials are available for 'free' on FIRSTChoice, those of us who have opted for, and received, the 3-D printer will have given up the privilege of obtaining these resources through FIRSTChoice.
So the decision becomes this: Do we want to buy a 3-D printer, after we have researched it, know exactly what we're getting, and can select any necessary upgrades with our own money? Or get one that may or may not be precisely what is perfect for our team, for 'free'? And in doing so, making us pay for any game-specific objects in January that other teams are receiving for 'free'.
Certainly makes the cheese more binding.
Also, I wouldn't automatically assume the kit chassis is c-channel-based. I have no direct evidence to the contrary, but it may be a dangerous assumption to make.

Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST® Choice Adds Additives
 

Tom, you hit the nail on the head here. I've been responsible for running and servicing the 3D printers at my job for the last 5 years or so, and they're quirky machines at best (These are 'production' capacity machines). Yes, they do provide an awesome medium for prototyping and small parts production, but to truly make use of the machine's capabilities, the person operating it should have a good understanding of how the machine works. I can only imagine how the experience could be with a 'DIY' or Entry Level machine.

With that being sail, the 'ground floor' level of 3D printing is probably a bit more useful than you might think. There are a lot of parts that I've made over the years, spacers, mounting fixtures, gears, etc, that are fairly forgiving when printed as long as you know how to turn the machine on and press start. Things like sensor mounts and interfaces are probably a perfect example of this, last year our encoder mounts for just about everything (I think everything, by the CMP) were made using a 3D printer. None of them required exploitation of any of the 'tricks' that can be done with 3D printing, most were just plastic 'plates' with some sort of integrated spacer or interfacing geometry.

Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST® Choice Adds Additives
 

The kit chassis is sheet metal, that was announced over the summer somewhere.

As for game pieces, with a 3D printer maybe you can print them?

..
In any case, THANK YOU to FIRST for coming up with a reasonably sane distribution plan.

FRC Blogged - FIRST® Choice Adds Additives
 

So our team is debating this decision right now. Our biggest question is whether we could buy the parts we would usually get from FIRST choice after getting the printer. Would they be out of stock? Would they even be available to buy? It's a huge risk. And shipping times after that - especially for crucial prototyping equipment (game pieces!).

It might be beneficial financially (we're buying a printer regardless), but what about logistically? Especially for a team up where we live.

Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST® Choice Adds Additives
 

Dollars ≠ FIRST® Choice credits.

Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST® Choice Adds Additives
 

The FC Rules specifically describe the international shipping options for 3D printers, so this is open to internatonal teams and US teams.

Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST® Choice Adds Additives
 

I see your point, and materials is typically the inhibiting factor with the 3-D printing. Although I have had a different expereince with the technology. I have been a part of team 3824 since it's creation and we have had the privilege of utilizing 3-D printing for 3, coming on 4 years now. We have partnered with Oak Ridge National Laboratory and UT Battelle to open up a government facility, the Manufacturing Demonstration Facility, to ourselves and 9 other area teams. With this partnership all fo the teams involved have had extensive exposure to additive manufacturing. Our team had the first fully printed robot 2 years ago and last year had a printed robot that incorporated carbon fiber.

That being so we have used 3-D printing to a large extent and use it in many practical ways such as: Brackets for pulleys and tensioners and housing/ mounting brackets for electronics (lights, cameras, battery boxes,sensors, etc.) We also have used 3-D printing in higher stress areas.

The main thing to remember is that with 3-D printing you can almost make anything you can design and test it within the day.

Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST® Choice Adds Additives
 

I think it's reasonable to point out the level of performance and quality you are getting out of your parts is NOT what teams will be able to replicated with the printers available on FC.