Chief Delphi - Back for more..VEXpro 2014 Product Unveiling

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Re: Back for more..VEXpro 2014 Product Unveiling

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli (Post 1311121)

The plates for the WCP PTO transmission are the same plates as the WCP 3 CIM shifters. When you purchase a WCP 3 CIM Shifter, you get the plates necessary to do a PTO. Please note that only the WCD version of the 3 CIM shifter supports the PTO option.

So there would be no PTO on the 2 cim shifter. That clears up a lot.

Re: Back for more..VEXpro 2014 Product Unveiling

Quote:

Originally Posted by s_forbes (Post 1311004)

11 tooth pinion with the same pitch circle diameter as a 12 tooth pinion? Sounds like dark magic to me.

We discovered these three years ago and have been referring to them as the "tricky trickster" pinions ever since. They are fantastic for having multiple options for top speeds in a drive gearbox without having to modify anything.

Re: Back for more..VEXpro 2014 Product Unveiling

Will the versaDog be available on its own?

Re: Back for more..VEXpro 2014 Product Unveiling

A COTS 3 pound PTO gearbox. FRC certainly has come a long way.It used to be only the top 1% of teams could pull something like that off.

Re: Back for more..VEXpro 2014 Product Unveiling

Does anyone know how they plan on mounting the transmissions to the versa chassis? Is it something they will have a mounting plate for or will we be responsible for however we want to mount them?

Re: Back for more..VEXpro 2014 Product Unveiling

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie314 (Post 1311166)

Does anyone know how they plan on mounting the transmissions to the versa chassis? Is it something they will have a mounting plate for or will we be responsible for however we want to mount them?

I'm hoping that Vex/WCP will elaborate on this as well. After looking at the pictures and release video, it looks like they drilled holes in the sides of the frame rails and face mounted them, but I'm hoping there's more to it than that. Trying to get the mounting holes properly aligned with just "a saw and a drill" would be rather difficult. :confused:

Re: Back for more..VEXpro 2014 Product Unveiling

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky3D (Post 1311191)

That is where I was getting at. They said a drill and wrench so we might have to wait till the manual is published to see what they have planned. For a lot of teams that would be rather difficult but the good part is that hopefully as long as you can get it fairly square and the flush mount on the face of the shifters to the 1x2 face then the versa blocks will automatically put your sprockets in line and allow you to still have a decent drive line. That is if they designed them to be offset the same...I assume they did:)

Re: Back for more..VEXpro 2014 Product Unveiling

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie314 (Post 1311166)

Does anyone know how they plan on mounting the transmissions to the versa chassis? Is it something they will have a mounting plate for or will we be responsible for however we want to mount them?

On a typical WCD, you use the bearing block to bolt and clamp the gearbox to the drive rail. Most teams also utilize the bottom standoffs to bolt though one face of the tubing and the gearbox. Not sure if those bolt hole dimensions have been standardized or not.

If those holes aren't provided, you could essentially mount the front plate of the gearbox to the tubing using the versablock, and then just drill through the standoff holes in the faceplate. Wouldn't be too difficult as long as the versablock keeps the plate aligned.

Re: Back for more..VEXpro 2014 Product Unveiling

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie314 (Post 1311166)

Does anyone know how they plan on mounting the transmissions to the versa chassis? Is it something they will have a mounting plate for or will we be responsible for however we want to mount them?

It appears that they attach to the VersaBlock which is clamped securely over the tubing. The only hole you would have to drill is the clearance hole for the hex shaft. You could use a step drill to bore an oversized hole to allow for chain/belt tensioning on the end blocks.

Re: Back for more..VEXpro 2014 Product Unveiling

Quote:

Originally Posted by btslaser (Post 1311201)

They are planning to put the entire shifter on the versa block...? That doesn't seem like the best idea, not saying they are not strong enough but doesn't seem like a rock solid idea to me. Please share ideas on this.

Re: Back for more..VEXpro 2014 Product Unveiling

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie314 (Post 1311204)

That would be plenty strong if bolted up right.

Adding two outer bolts by match drilling would beef it up, but that versablock clamping the frame is a serious joint.

Re: Back for more..VEXpro 2014 Product Unveiling

Could you guys provide some of the information pertaining to HTD versus GT2 specifically in ratcheting performance? I tried finding data to back up the claim of HTD being better for rapid direction changes and can't find anything to substantiate this.

Re: Back for more..VEXpro 2014 Product Unveiling

Thank you everyone at Vex Robotics/IFI for introducing all of these new products, it is evident that you really listened to everyone's feedback and have produced a great suite of products to meet everyone's needs. 225 is already working on our pre-kickoff purchase list.

Re: Back for more..VEXpro 2014 Product Unveiling

Quote:

Originally Posted by Answer42 (Post 1311130)

A COTS 3 pound PTO gearbox. FRC certainly has come a long way.It used to be only the top 1% of teams could pull something like that off.

We do not know the rules for 2014, so I'll ask this question in reference to last year. Would the PTO gear box from WCP have been legal in 2013? The gear box without pneumatic cylinders is around $350. With both cylinders it's $430-ish. You can purchase the gear box without them, but it won't function. Of course the same is true for motors and pinions. If you purchased the full assembly with pneumatics, motors and pinions for just over $525 would it have been legal?

Quote:

4.1.3.2 R12
No individual item shall have a value that exceeds $400 USD. The total cost of COMPONENTS purchased in bulk may
exceed $400 as long as the cost of an individual COMPONENT does not exceed $400.

Quote:

4.1.3.5 R15
If a COTS item is part of a modular system that can be assembled in several possible configurations, then each
individual module must fit within the price constraints defined in R12.
If the modules are designed to assemble into a single configuration, and the assembly is functional in only that
configuration, then the total cost of the complete assembly including all modules must fit within the price constraints
defined in R12.

Quote:

In summary, if a VENDOR sells a system or a kit, a team must use the entire system/kit
Fair Market Value and not the value of its COMPONENT pieces.

Example1: VENDOR A sells a gearbox that can be used with a number of different gear sets, and can mate with two different motors they sell. A team purchases the gearbox, a
gear set, and a motor (which are not offered together as an assembly or kit), then
assembles them together. Each part is treated separately for the purpose of BOM
costing, since the purchased pieces can each be used in various configurations.

Example2: VENDOR B sells a robotic arm assembly that the team wants to use.
However, it costs $700, so they cannot use it. The Vendor sells the “hand”, “wrist” and
“arm” as separate assemblies, for $200 each. A team wishes to purchase the three
components separately, then reassemble them. This would not be legal, as they are
really buying and using the entire assembly, which has a Fair Market Value of $700

PS. If FIRST had a goal of more teams doing their own design work they could lower the $400 limit. If they wanted to lessen the amount of design work they could raise it instead.

Re: Back for more..VEXpro 2014 Product Unveiling

I agree it starts to get into a grey area on the legality. IMO, I would argue that the cylinders are a separate entity. You can use them on their own for other purposes. Presumably there is some way you could lock the transmission into one gear only, so I don't think the cylinders should count as part of the transmission's BOM cost.