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BBray_T1296 13-12-2013 02:38

Re: Vex Versachassis
 
I personally love all the addition of all these high end quality (but not high end prices) being added to the FRC market. It is really driving the sport and will help bring more teams up to a highly competitive level.

While our team will still keep our own frame building methods, last year, and very likely this year will buy our entire drivetrain from VexPro.

One thing that may be good or may be bad is this: Teams don't really need to make their own custom drivetrains anymore. Practically every option is available quicker and as cheap as a home-built machine. A custom drivetrain may only be marginally superior to a COTS one nowadays. Perhaps this tampers with innovation on our parts, but it sure helps out a lot of us.

You are arguing whether the slight time delay of ordering a drivetrain puts off the advantages of one, but consider the time and effort your team put into the offseason to develop these drivetrains. Now you can focus on other improvements, like spreading FIRST and helping the community; you can focus your attention to bigger and better things. You know for a fact that come build season, a drivetrain just as good as you could have devoted your effort to is just waiting in a box somewhere in Texas or Michigan.

I'm just waiting for the 2015 product release when they announce the Versa-Swerve drivetrain. :P

Paul Copioli 13-12-2013 05:11

Re: Vex Versachassis
 
All,

Many points have been made in this thread so I will try to address these from VEX's point of view:

After evaluating the successes and failures with the sales of our products last season and sifting through all of the customer suggestions and comments it was clear to us that increasingly more teams are using the WCD style drive bases. Since our strategy since the original kitbot back in 2005 was a primarily sheet metal drive base, we saw that we needed a solution to offer the teams that prefer the live axle solution. We also noticed that some people prefer open plate designs for their gearboxes.

It seemed logical to approach WCP to see if there was a way that we could partner. RC and team were very receptive to our ideas and an agreement was made very quickly. During the process of reviewing what each company was planning for 2014, the VersaChassis was born. We were working on the 1x1 custom tubing and gusset plates and they were working on a flexible system to mount the WCD to a 2 x 1 framing system. The VersaChassis was born. We did not create it because we thought it was the least expensive option. We did not create it because we thought it was an FRC game changer. We created it because we needed a solution for teams that wanted to use this style of drive but didn't have the means to make CNC parts.

One thing to keep in mind with cost is that the VEXpro Single Speed and Ball Shifter Gearboxes all include the 12 tooth aluminum pinions and their respective mounting hardware. The WCP versions have so many possible options that they are broken out as a separate option.

Paul

Nemo 13-12-2013 07:39

Re: Vex Versachassis
 
I'm not sure if I came across as whining about prices. In case I did, I think the 2014 Vex Pro prices are perfectly fair given the apparent high quality of the product line and the prices of products available elsewhere.

Billfred 13-12-2013 07:42

Re: Vex Versachassis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli (Post 1311630)
...we saw that we needed a solution to offer the teams that prefer the live axle solution.

Who would ever be in that camp? ;)

This is definitely going to become an interesting year for teams that have the financial headroom to skip the kitbot. I look forward to seeing a few of these on the field.

Andy Baker 13-12-2013 08:43

Re: Vex Versachassis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Schuh (Post 1311604)
The main disadvantage of using a COTS drivetrain as I see it for a vetran team is tying up so much of their BOM budget before they even get to the parts that score points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billfred (Post 1311655)
This is definitely going to become an interesting year for teams that have the financial headroom to skip the kitbot.

However, what if the KoP Chassis (let's call it the AM14U) is just as good as any COTS chassis, with regard to efficiency, ease of build, expandability, acceptability to optional add-ons, and weight?

Andy

Andrew Schreiber 13-12-2013 10:23

Re: Vex Versachassis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Baker (Post 1311673)
However, what if the KoP Chassis (let's call it the AM14U) is just as good as any COTS chassis, with regard to efficiency, ease of build, expandability, acceptability to optional add-ons, and weight?

Andy

Then I'd be happy as a pig in mud. But what if information on it was released prior to kickoff so we could familiarize ourselves with the options ;)

(Or, really for those who run rookie quick builds so they weren't trying to figure it out as they go)

Akash Rastogi 13-12-2013 10:47

Re: Vex Versachassis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Baker (Post 1311673)
However, what if the KoP Chassis (let's call it the AM14U) is just as good as any COTS chassis, with regard to efficiency, ease of build, expandability, acceptability to optional add-ons, and weight?

Andy

Then we would feel very silly about taking the AM Voucher option for 2495. :)

Taylor 13-12-2013 10:54

Re: Vex Versachassis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber (Post 1311702)
Then I'd be happy as a pig in mud. But what if information on it was released prior to kickoff so we could familiarize ourselves with the options ;)

(Or, really for those who run rookie quick builds so they weren't trying to figure it out as they go)

I get the feeling that if they were allowed by FRC to release the 2014 KoP chassis, they would.

Silly Non-Disclosure Agreements.

Andrew Schreiber 13-12-2013 10:56

Re: Vex Versachassis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor (Post 1311710)
I get the feeling that if they were allowed by FRC to release the 2014 KoP chassis, they would.

Silly Non-Disclosure Agreements.

I know, I'm really just trying to float that idea to someone who might be able to get it to the right people.

Electronica1 13-12-2013 10:58

Re: Vex Versachassis
 
Quote:

However, what if the KoP Chassis (let's call it the AM14U) is just as good as any COTS chassis, with regard to efficiency, ease of build, expandability, acceptability to optional add-ons, and weight?

Andy
That would explain the AM14U Chassis link on this page
http://www.andymark.com/AM14U-s/510.htm -they got rid of the links to the quick upgrade packages around 20 minutes after I put this up

I really like the idea of quick upgrade packages (giving it comparable abilities to the versachassis if I had to guess). The best part is it is sheet metal!

Akash Rastogi 13-12-2013 10:58

Re: Vex Versachassis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber (Post 1311711)
I know, I'm really just trying to float that idea to someone who might be able to get it to the right people.

Wanna move to another thread? I had the same feeling about this when we had to make the voucher decision with barely any info. It would be good to talk about.

mrnoble 13-12-2013 14:04

Re: Vex Versachassis
 
I know the people at Vex often visit here, so I have a concern I'd like to address and see if they have a response.

I love the VexPro products; we binge-bought gear boxes, motors, and parts last spring, and we're really looking forward to using them for this year's game. When VersaChassis was unveiled, it significantly changed our plans for the structure of our bot. Today, I bought about $700 of the chassis parts in anticipation of using them. My concern is the delivery date. The email I received simply said that it was on hold due to extended lead time. When I called, I was told that they were hoping to ship "sometime in January". While I understand that this may just be a way of avoiding broken promises, I am concerned that we have now invested our budget in materials that might not arrive in time for us to actually build a robot. If I can't get some assurance that we will be able to use the parts, we will probably have to look at other options and cancel the order.

Hoping to get some feedback. Thanks!

Brandon_L 13-12-2013 14:24

Re: Vex Versachassis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi (Post 1311708)
Then we would feel very silly about taking the AM Voucher option for 2495. :)

We chose the voucher, but in retrospect we somewhat wish we did not. A huge part of that decision was just having no idea what the hell the kit was going to be.

To whoever is responsible for that, I feel like forcing teams to choose blindly was a horrible idea.

Nemo 13-12-2013 15:37

Re: Vex Versachassis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon_L (Post 1311782)
We chose the voucher, but in retrospect we somewhat wish we did not. A huge part of that decision was just having no idea what the hell the kit was going to be.

To whoever is responsible for that, I feel like forcing teams to choose blindly was a horrible idea.

If you like having options, I think the voucher is still a good choice even if you ultimately build a near-exact copy of the kit bot. It just depends if there's any possibility that your team would choose different gearboxes (such as shifters) or a different frame. If that's a possibility, the flexibility of the voucher is very nice.

"Forcing us to choose blindly" is putting it a bit melodramatically; they needed to know our choice far enough ahead of time to allow the kits to be put together in sufficient quantities. I felt that we had enough information about the kit bot (sheet aluminum frame with Toughbox Mini gearboxes, likely with 4" wheels) that we could easily make the decision that fit our team's needs the best.

BrendanB 13-12-2013 16:22

Re: Vex Versachassis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon_L (Post 1311782)
We chose the voucher, but in retrospect we somewhat wish we did not. A huge part of that decision was just having no idea what the hell the kit was going to be.

To whoever is responsible for that, I feel like forcing teams to choose blindly was a horrible idea.

I'll second you on that one! Last year it was easy as I believe they said the kit would remain near the same. We choose it last year because the $450 was worth more to us as the kit bot (and with the feature of belts was a nice touch). Our team is such a fan of the Kitbot on Steroids method that we signed up again, however with if it leaves us with less room for customization with the new style I will be put off considering the lack of information that was released to teams regarding exactly what we would be getting.


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