Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Unknown to most, there WAS an actual official FRC game in the past involving water...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rug_Rage

*cough*Back to the 2014 hint...*cough*

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If you look back, the examples were just to provide evidence that game hint discussion actually does tend to produce something relatively close to helpful, as it seems that everybody became terribly pessimistic about peoples' ability to guess parts of the game this year.

But I digress, as you've said, time to get back to the 2014 hint.

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I don't think anyone else has noticed this, but when the hint is plotted on a Cartesian coordinate plane it creates a triangle. When plotted in 3-d it shows a shape similar to a square. If someone manages to find a way to make it a circle it could be very possible that this years game could be something to do with 3 different shaped game pieces like Logomotion.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

When graphed in wolfram alpha it does form a circle...

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Pretty sure that the hint just gives people something to put their energy into while we *patiently* wait for January 4th.

In other words, the hint is supposed to be extremely obscure so that you can just see how close you may have gotten once the actual challenge comes out. I doubt anyone has ever gotten any real, even minuscule advantage.

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More precisely a sphere.

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Picture?

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Well I think that gives us a decent indication that it could be similar to Logomotion atleast with game pieces.

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If you type in "61126/1963" into Google Maps it should show a map of course. Anyways many people are pointing out the obvious post office well what about the water tower that is near it? There is a water tower.

Water game anyone?

Maybe we have to climb a water tower this year hahahahah:rolleyes:

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Logomotion didn't have any spherical game pieces though. FIRST has been following a pattern for a while now where they go back and forth from a ball like object to an irregular object.

2013: Ultimate Ascent - Frisbee: Irregular
2012: Rebound Rumble - Basketball: Ball
2011: Logomotion - Tubes- Irregular
2010: Breakaway - Soccer Ball: Ball
2009: Lunacy - The open air cells: Irregular
2008: FIRST Overdrive: Trackballs: Ball
2007: Rack 'n Roll: Tubes: Irregular
2006: Aim High: Balls: Ball
2005: Triple Play: Triangles: Irregular

It would make sense for the game piece to be a ball this year. I think that the graphing is brilliant, and that part of the clue is that it is a spherical game piece, but that each fraction is also a game hint.

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What if the numbers somehow relate to the different possible patterns for games (ball/no-ball, sport/no-sport, etc.)?

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Attachment 15625

When you put the three destinations stated thus far into google maps you form a triangle.

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I would be very careful making up 'patterns.' Many thought that there was also a 'sports game pattern' too:

2006: Aim High - Mesoamerican ballgame
2007: Rack 'n Roll - Abstract
2008: FIRST Overdrive - NASCAR
2009: Lunacy - Abstract
2010: Breakaway - Soccer
2011: Logomotion - Abstract
2012: Rebound Rumble - Basketball

So 2013 was expected to be an abstract, non-sports game, but then they threw Ultimate Frisbee at us. :o Boom, pattern broken.

Also, I would call 2009 ball, not irregular in your 'pattern.' The game pieces were called 'Orbit Balls' after all!

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That pattern goes back farther than that. The ones I know for sure are that 2002 and 2004 had balls and 2003 did not, but I've read that the pattern extends into the 1990's.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

2004 - FIRST Frenzy - Ball
2003 - Stack Attack - Box
2002 - Zone Zeal - Ball
2001 - Diabolical Dynamics - Ball

Sorry.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Just saying, any three noncolinear points will form a triangle...

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Yeah, I was just about to say that. Still, important to note the number 3.

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The number 3 is as useless as triangles are. I can also make 4's or 2's or 1's out of anything they throw at us.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Dinner missed = plate/frisbee.
Holding weight= climbing the pyramid.

If youre here to discuss the relevance of game hints, youre in the wrong thread. If youre here to relate your favorite show or sport to the next frc game, youre in the wrong thread. The water game talk is common, but its been ridiculously overdone this year. Then again, I have no say over how you interpret the hint. Just keep it productive. Work off of others. This is how we get closer to answering these things.

Also I want to point out that in 2011 we were shown a picture of a LOCOMOTIVE well before the first game hint came out. Keep an eye on prior blog posts.

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I added the numbers and found their geo-coordinates im getting Forest City, PA. gonna keep working on this..

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Any three points will form a triangle. Just like any 5 points will form a pentagon and so on.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

That's exactly what it is. Think about every game hint we've ever gotten, would knowing any of them in advance give you any advantage at all? Knowing that there's going to be a pyramid to climb, or a ball or tube game doesn't really give you an advantage at all until you know the specifics of the game rules.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

As for three, maybe each string of numbers hints to a different aspect of the game. For example, one pair of numbers seemingly corresponds to a sign about reducing weight limits. The other strings probably represent other aspects of the game such as scoring objects, field dimensions, etc.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

I'm liking that the different ways of graphing the points form a triangle, then box, then sphere though.

That being said I'm still partial to the "weight limit" sign because, come on, that's pretty perfect and its not a common sign...

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Triangle, Square, and Sphere...

The game pieces may be inspired by the FIRST logo, just as they were in Logomotion.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

I started wondering if the date the clue was posted could have any connection. Since 1963 seems to be referring to the year I searched for December 20th, 1963 (also, the post is the 50th anniversary of this date). This came up as the day the Berlin wall opened for the first time allowing people to visit relatives on the other side.

This could be a completely irrevelant finding; however, I can't help but think of some kind of game element dividing the field/alliances allowing robots to pass through at certain spots. When I was looking through this thread I found this post which talks about transporting to Berlin. Could this possibly be some sort of coincidence as well?

Other than this I haven't found any other connections that haven't already been pointed out. Maybe someone else might have a thought on this?

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

The hint can be about any part of the game and since quite honestly I don't think we are in the right ball park yet I have been working out an idea that the hint has to do with scoring or ranking.

high scores big numbers would imply there is a multiplier element to scoring such in 2007.

perhaps the alliances matter as well as the position number and your score is divide by your opponent.

R1 8234 / B1 57, R2 61126 / B2 1963, R3 62326 / B3 15806

It would be hard for judges to score this unless there were specific game pieces or goals for each.

Other concept each alliance has two scoring objects lets say circles then during end game everyone scores triangles and your Qualifying Rank score is
your squares / over your oponents triangles...

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Autonomous /Teleoperated / End Game
This could be something.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

It might be worth mentioning because of the Dr. Who connections:

In the Dr. Who Christmas Special, The Runaway Bride, the case uses Segways to get to an ancient spider nest.

Just saying: Spider game.

(yes I took this game hint as an excuse to watch a marathon of Dr. Who)

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

A little late to the party, but I figured it was about time for another reorganization (been going through this thread and getting a little lost along the way):

What I believe was the latest summary was from post 279 on page 19 by Thunder910; here's an abridged recap of that:

(1) Using the numbers as zip codes, they point to cities with a connection to baseball
(2) Using the numbers as zip codes, they point to cities that have passed the Olympic torch
(3) Andy Baker uses a baseball bat in a video for Robot in Three Days
(4) In the KoP apology letter, they use the baseball analogy "Our apologies for the two strikes this weekend, we promise our next swing will be a home run."
(5) Hex, statistics, ASCII and Morse have not come up with anything consistently intelligible
(6) The first two numbers' simplified, irrational forms are the hex codes of green and blue, respectively
(7) Karomata created a theory revolving around Phil Fish
(8) When plugged into Google Earth (or Maps?), there are three images that show a shopping center sign including Security First, a map including First Baptist Church, and a sign saying "Weight Limit Reduced 25% Effective Jan. 1st to May 1st."
(9) The game piece pattern for this year would indicate a ball-based game
(10) The game type pattern, which was already broken by Ultimate, should have continued to give a non-abstract game, but technically makes us overdue for one

Now it's time to number the (more concrete) game theories!
(1) Baseball
(2) Hockey
(3) Something more abstract

Football and a Logomotion like game have also been mentioned, but they have had less traction than the other theories so far. Granted, that doesn't discount them at all.

From reading a lot of these posts and my own (very brief) experiences, I believe that FIRST games, now especially, will not only seek to provide a good, fun challenge but also make FIRST and STEM more accessible to more people.
To be frank, racing games, stacking games, puzzle-like games and even just varied scoring methods and multipliers makes games harder for non-FIRST people to sit down and watch FIRST events (so does a non-working automatic scoring system, but that's a bit less controllable).
Rebound Rumble was a hit because of how straightforward the primary scoring was, and Ultimate Ascent followed that trend. That is why, I believe, part (10) about the game type trend broke; it's because they realized that creating non-abstract games with visually logical scoring can fulfill their goals better.

In addition to the game type, I think that it is probably more logical to follow the non-game hint hints, such as the video and letter references, than to be suspicious of them. Since they are unified, and previous non-game hint hints such as a KoP specification change (2013) indicating smaller robots were pretty straightforward as well, it would make sense.

Opinions in general: part (9) indicates we're due for a ball game, fulfilled by the baseball game supported by (1), (3) and (4); (1) and (8) also support each other due to their connection with maps, and (8) does contain several references to FIRST. Security First = Safety First, but the church is still mysterious. (8) also indicates much lighter robots, at a 90lb. cap.

General notes: / can stand for division, a space in Morse, or an or symbol. Commas separate lists, pauses in speech, coordinate systems, and the beginning and end of sets. Mapping them out as three Cartesian points is guaranteed to create a triangle; mapping them as a 8 3D points (/ as an or) is guaranteed to create a rectangular prism (as long as the options are different). Apparently, mapping it in Wolfram Alpha gives a sphere.

Keep in mind that, as a poster whose post I've lost said before me, the GDC must have backwards designed this hint, providing a barrier to (8); how would they have gotten those numbers to pinpoint those locations?

And finally, remember that this is a source of mostly entertainment and not competition. Even if we pulled out the right game, the only real benefit is being able to laugh about it afterwards, so let's have fun with this!

P.S. I didn't discuss the photo of Dean, Woodie and Don, sorry! I sort of went with the whole "There Are No Game Hints In This Photo" warning. To be frank, there's too much symbolism to pull from photos that don't have overt messages (they're taking a photo, there's a green screen, they have chairs etc.) to get much concrete stuff anyways.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

With all the triangle talk I decided to try searching pyramid with each number. One of the results was for a company called Pyramid Plastics in Rockford ,IL. I am still trying to make more connections though.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

So I tried to edit my post, but my internet is currently too bad to do that it seems.

Things I forgot: I did believe that the 16:08 timestamp could have something to do with a hex to oct conversion, but that got me nowhere. There have been attempts to perform simple correlation translations (e.g. A=1, B=2...), as well as varied Morse translations, and then ASCII translations, etc. (e.g. I tried Hex/Oct to Dec/Dec then to ASCII and got this unintelligible "!!STX[Start Text]/G, 'LACK[Acknowledge]/VT[Vertical Tab]', (SYN[Synchronous idle]SO[Shift Out]/DC1[Device Control 1]EOT[End Of Transmission]").

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

I feel like we may be overthinking it. I know this is FIRST but it could be much simpler than we're making it. But I do believe that the game will be much more simplistic and the coincidence with the sign is very strange as well

Has anyone tried looking at the legs of the triangle? Either on a chart or as points on a map? Could bring something, probably nothing, but its something else to look at

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Good evening Team

Here is what I have done to try and crack the code of the next season’s game hint.

Using the order of operations:

8+2+3+4/5+7=20.8

6+1+1+2+6/1+9+6+3=34

6+2+3+2+6/1+5+8+0+6=38

Then I divided each answer by 8:

20.8/8=2.6

34/8=4.25

38/8=4.75

Then I plotted the points in different arrangements Here:
http://hotmath.com/learning_activiti.../3dplotter.swf


x=2.6 y= 4.25 z=4.75
x=4.25 y=4.75 z=2.6
x=4.75 y=2.6 z=4.25

The attached image is what I got.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

just a possible option on the church is that when you go to church accepting the lord is known as saving or being saved maybe you will have to save your fellow robots on the field because they could be disabled by the other alliance for one reason or another

(surprised none else thought of that yet or atleast i saw)

this could be refered to as a tackle maybe if it is a football game
and aslo the security place could be a safety as in football position

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Yes everyone, we get it, if you interpret the numbers in any way that gives you three points, you get a triangle, which is literally the most boring thing that three points can define.

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I still think a slippery baseball game with several scoring zones (field/out-field sort of thing). A reduction on weight limit and In reference to the picture of Dean, Woodie and Don I believe there is going to be some sort of lifting/balancing factor. Since games often borrow from each other and FTC this year has balancing and lifting while vex has a bump, a bridge and lifting.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Three numbers.
Three molecules in water.
Water Game.

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You guys are going to hate me, but i felt it was necessary to post. In the December 10th post Frank quotes about the field, saying "This was the first time we had a chance to take a look at a fully assembled 2014 season field in person rather than on a display screen or on paper. I thought it looked great. Especially impressive was the...but, I guess I shouldn’t say any more." So from this, I wanted to post the picture they showed us in September. If you look at the left screen, that just so happens to be block from our view, you can see what appears to be a CAD rendering of possibly the 2014 field. Here ya go:

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

I'd be willing to believe it's a game element... maybe some sort of collection of boxes?

What if, in a twist move, we're playing a scaled up version of FTC Block Party?

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Thats what came to mind first for me.

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What if it's just some sort of 3D version of Minesweeper?

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

With real mines.

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Boom theres the game field! Now time to go wake up my team. lol.

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You know, if you rotate that image, it looks rather like a shallow staircase.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Boom is right.

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I don't believe the church is that much of a mystery. Its definitely open to over analyzation (and if you guys have something I'd love to here it) as are all aspects of this hint however the church is likely just a hint to tell you that you are looking in the right locations. Every image we've found has FIRST in it. I think its just telling us we might be on to something.

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Hmmm.... There have been some suggestions that the game might be a redo of 2004's (10 years ago) FIRST Frenzy. The game featured a pull-up bar very similar to Block Party's. Also, FVC (FIRST Vex Challenege) debuted with a scaled-down FIRST Frenzy, so will FRC this year be a scaled-up Block Party?? FIRST Frenzy also had steps, which may be what is shown on the one monitor.

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Combining that with what I said MUCH earlier in the thread about the feet in this image: http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default...ff-Filming.jpg

Endgame: 30 points for fully climbing stairs, 15 for being off the ground but not completely up them

30 and 15 were chosen arbitrarily.

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There's very little actual support for it, but I love the idea of flipping the relationship between FTC and FRC teams-- they've had games similar to ours, it's our turn to have one similar to theirs.

It also fits with Frank's comment-- a scaled up version of the Block Party pendulum/ramp/bar assembly would be a sight to behold.

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I'm impressed! That is something!

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Here's what I got when I used base10 to binary to Morse to english.

First set of numbers


e rnt
s e

or another way

t kr
o t

second set of numbers

(ststi)(vvi)(vil) u
hkl

another way


e dou
rkm

do what you want with that.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

After simple research on First Frenzy it is said that it combined elements from different years which supports the recycling theories from earlier.

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I think this is really cool because of that huge robotics competition that is happening this weekend. The Robotic Olympics they were calling it. Now if only we could get a ton of money for winning.....

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I love the feet thing. Stairs seems likely and frightening at the same time. I'm going to be dreaming about a drivetrain that can climb stairs now.

I wish the official game hint would elude to stairs as well to confirm, but maybe it is trying to hint at game pieces, and the picture hinting at the field elements.

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Minibots race up a staircase.

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I have absolutely no credible lead on this, but in the extremely slim chance that I hit the mark here, I'm going to go ahead and guess the game piece will be manufactured by One World Futbol. Hopefully I don't get a knock on my door tomorrow. :D

Can anyone connect anything to this place?

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So far I have heard Hockey and Baseball. Go to this link and vote on which one you think it is. http://www.yopyip.com/#!poll/cmb9

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"Who's on FIRST" is too good of a game name to pass up. I feel certain that if they don't use it this year, they will in the near future.

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Im pretty sure that is trademarked. So they would have to come up with something else.

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So guys.... I was doing some research on the Andy Mark Drive Kit. The kit from this year is smaller and weighs two pounds less than last years.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

If you'll all still remember that picture from a while back in the thread of Dean, Woodie, and the other man who's name slips my thought, I think that the connection it made to the hint was much too good to be a coincidence. First of all, the clue was not numbered,as they have been in the past, meaning there easily could be another clue that would have been made too obvious had they numbered this one 2, or any other number for that matter. I don't know why they would say that there's no clue in the picture if it's just supposed to be an unrelated image, unless they wanted to attract a little bit of attention to it (though I would like to know how someone got all of those details. Then someone found it matched the triangle given by the clue very closely if rotated and flipped. Quite possibly, when they said that there's no clue in THIS picture, they meant the original, meaning there could easily be one when rotated. When rotated, it matches up just right with the number three, and the triangle. I feel that the three is easily just more evidence that it should be that way, because there's have tended to come up quite a lot from FIRST GDC, and it could easily just be some confirmation. Now, given that long winded explanation, I think their feet do mean something as someone mentioned. The number of feed go up in ascending order as the chairs go up in the picture. This could easily mean a scoring element where points are awarded for either climbing higher, or putting something higher. We haven't had an arm game in quite some time, so I'm leaning slightly towards game pieces going up, however the weight limit sign someone found was just way too suspicious, so it just as may well be robots since it is easier to climb with a lighter robot. The clue when put into google maps is just too darn relevant, so I'm thinking it's a combination of the two. I don't think there's too much within the clues left, but I could be wrong (and I certainly wouldn't mind it if it gave us more info).

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8234/57 gave coordinates to a farm in Idaho.

61126/1963

Rockford, IL in a 1963

Supposivley in:
July 8, 1963 ----- Winnebago County farm officials decide to seek federal disaster aid because of severe drought conditions. Rain finally falls on July 13, and more is predicted.

July 29, 1963 ----- Winnebago County, one of five Northern Illinois counties declared disaster areas by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, after the worst drought in nearly 30 years.

62326/15806

62326 is a zip for Colchester, IL. So comparing the distribution of the residents' age, the number of 15 yr olds is 26, 80 yr olds is 12, and 6 yr olds is 30.
If you Google 261230, it pulls up many different brands of air pressure sensors.

So not really sure what all that means... But I gathered farms, droughts, and air pressure sensors.

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Yes, Andy already stated that the new kit is lighter than the previous version.

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1963 was when Iron Man was first drawn. An Iron Man is a type of triathlon. There's also talks about a mashup of old games, relating to the Dr. Who anniversary and the green/recycling theory. The number 3 is a prominent feature.
I think the game will be some sort of triathlon of past games.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Okay, I only just learned of this thread a few hours ago, and since then have been looking at other peoples' findings and thinking.

Baseball seems right; the supporting evidence of the many reasons FRC would need to keep the game simple along with the many varied signposts indicating a baseball theme tell me that it isn't a red herring.
What is baseball, at it's core? One 'side' trying to score and another trying to prevent them from doing so, as well as providing them with the objects they need in order to score.
Why wouldn't straight baseball work if adapted for FRC? Obvious; in baseball, one team is purely defensive and the other purely offensive in a given segment of the game, and "side-switching" mid-match in FRC is unheard of, so regular baseball isn't the answer; some modification, at it's core, however, may be.

The various space themes: Interesting as they may be, the only things I can glean from them are 1. Possible debris on the field as was mentioned before, and 2. launching something from the ground to the sky. With 2, some baseball adaptation is looking pretty good.

Now, on to the first widely-discussed picture in this thread: The green-screen picture. Firstly, yes, 3 alliances, two with classic red/blue and the third green; green is far too significant* and the presence of two red lights and two blue lights too unlikely for me to believe otherwise at this time. Secondly, the waters; the triangle may be significant, but only in it's shape in that it's NOT equilateral. The 3-alliance theory has been shot down repeatedly because it is assumed that 3 alliances given equal opportunity and placement cannot compete in an even and fair fashion. I agree. However, so would the eggheads coming up with this competition, and if they wanted to have three alliances they'd have to plan for it by setting aside one of them as significantly different than the other 2 - possibly have one team as significant (as represented by the water NOT on the floor, ie raised up) and the other two coopertating somehow.
Now, how to apply that to the baseball theory? Think about it logically. If we assume that there are indeed three alliances and that the game is indeed baseball, short of trading off field positions three times/match how would one go about turning a two-sided sport into a three-sided one? Well, in baseball, there are 9 fielders and a maximum of 4 runners (in a grand slam). That's roughly a 2-1 ratio. Now, if you have two active teams, one twice the size of the other, and want to make 3 equal teams from that, what would you do? Divide the larger, fielding team into two.

Moving right along, the next thing I want to discuss is the second relevant image, one in which what appears to be a set of stairs can be seen in a cad file. The idea of stairs being present is why I specified "ie raised up" above. In the triangle the numbers created and in the water cups, it can almost be said that two entities are opposite each other and a third is an intermediate tending towards the lower one. What I'm imagining is: One alliance being ON a platform at all times, one being OFF at all times, and a third being an intermediate trying to help the one off the platform, being able to go both up and down the stairs. (The earlier "Berlin Wall" findings make me thing that the stairs could, rather span the entire width of the platform, be only about as wide as a Rebound Rumble bridge, being a gap in the metaphorical wall.)

Now, what would teams in these positions have to do? This is where I run low on guesses. I would wager that the team on the platform would have to be a scoring team, in that that is their first and only priority for at least the majority of the match. (The scoring objects'll be round I'd bet, enough evidence to support it.) I would also bet that the intermediate's task would be to hinder them from doing so while helping the team off the platform do what they need to do. However, I have fewer guesses for the possible details here. In this theoretical game, there would be obstacles in the way of (or at the disposal of?) the intermediate team, and they would be responsible for aiding the team off the platform. My only guess at the moment as to how the teams would score would be to shoot spheres with a diameter the same as that of a baseball or softball into circular goals with varying point values. One possible breakdown of those point values would be that which is indicated by the feet on the floor in the first photo; perhaps two holes on either side of the field, one of each pair maybe twice the diameter of the balls and one maybe 5 times the diameter. These two goals have point values of 2 and 1 (represented by the number of feet on the floor) respectively. Alliances on the floor and on the platform are both dedicated to shooting the whole time, at the goals opposite them. However, the team on the platform has a significant advantage given that they won't have to shoot nearly as high, and won't have a platform stopping them from shooting from anything farther than 2/3 court. (If the platform is 2 feet high and starts at half-court, the alliances shooting from below are going to have a 2-foot wall to shoot over, and, with height constraints, backing up much further may be necessary for a clear shot.) It is because of this advantage that the intermediate team will be helping the lower team by attempting to obstruct the upper team, and to bring game pieces to the lower team from the platform above. Now, what I'm picturing is that the game pieces that don't go in the goal land conveniently beside the opposite team, who then can pick it up and fire at the opposing goal, or be picked up by the intermediate to give to the other team.

I think I may have managed to convey my vision for this year's game adequately. One of the key things I keep referring back to in my mind that makes me believe my own theory as plausible is that "home run" message FRC put out. In that message, they mentioned that the chassis will be designed for removal and addition, quickly, of superstructures. I don't believe that's out of kindness, but rather out of necessity. Consider a robot that can climb stairs, throw baseball-sized-balls a good 40ft, manipulate potential obstacles/debris in the way, and drive quickly, maneuverably, and competitively. The robot you are considering weighs more than 90lbs, undoubtedly. Now consider one that can just drive up stairs, manipulate obstacles (possibly with the same device), and drive as described. Close, but easily under 90lbs. Now, picture a robot that can drive and fire baseballs as described; again, do-ably under 90lbs. Now think about it, a robot that has to do both - but, critically, not at the same time. Could that be under 90lbs? If you can change your superstructure in between tasks, it can. That's right. I'm picturing each robot having 2 superstructures, and superstructure changeouts being as common as bumper changeouts. "Round 8 we're red with stairclimbing." "Match 12 we're blue with launching." You get the idea. The robots'd be weighed at inspection either twice, once with each superstructure, or once, and then each superstructure individually weighed. Either way, 90lbs for the base and a single superstructure. And that's how we'd compete.

~sigh~ I just read through this product of a tired mind, and I truly hope probability wins out and that I'm wrong here. This sort of setup, while doable, doesn't lend itself to a "cheap and cheerful" robot, which is precisely what we need with so little funding at our team.
Thanks for reading my probably insane theories, looking forward to reading yours. :)

*: Unrelated, but I can't help but think that all of the people steadfastly announcing things like "GREEN IS THE HINT" were subconsciously channeling Sherlock shouting "PINK!"

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention: There's most likely an endgame of some sort, but I've absolutely no idea what it could be. Perhaps I'm completely wrong about everything and stairs must be climbed at the end, or something as predictable as that, but maybe alliances just need to be in a particular spot or in some specific relation to each other or something.

ORR... (And this would be interesting) the robots need to make a chain of contact, but the teams below need to stay below, those above need to stay above, and the intermediates need to establish contact, so a chain of 6 robots (say 1 blue below touching another blue below touching a green on the stairs touching another green on the stairs touching a red above touching the last, red robot) would score full coopertition points.

That sounds like a lot of fun, I just went from disliking my own theory to hoping I'm right.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

They had "side switching" in 2006:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr-nNBK0O1Y

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Huh. Scratch that remark then, I should've done my homework a bit better. I'd only watched the videos back to 2009, and read brief summaries of the rest. (Our rookie season was last year.)

Thanks for that, I may have to do a rethink.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

When we searched the divided numbers in the andymark catalog, we got the #144- lunacy wheels and #31- a 3/16" bearing. The three didn't give us anything. Looking at the FIRST Choice, we got #144 a size 2 stainless steel track, #031- pnumatic tubing (a transparent yellow) and #003 an adjustable 6" chrome wrench.

[FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

1st attempt didn't work right!

[FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Neither did the second! :)

[FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

I took the hint in a completely different direction. Perhaps my thoughts can take this discussion into different areas.
The three sets of numbers represent the three phases of the game: AM, Teleop, End game. The first number describes the action, the second in the set describes a rule or limitation.
To briefly take you down the path of my thoughts, I initially noticed that the larger numbers were fairly close to the total number minutes for the build season. From there, I wanted to see if any event was taking place in the 2014 Olympics in that minute - starting the clock at midnight, January 1st and counting from there.
This is what comes up:

1823 - converts to 2:17:14 - which I then converted to 2/17/14. The main event that day is the Free Dance competition. Sounds like AM to me.
57 represents the length of the field. Including the driver's station area - so thought it indicates that there is no limit how you far you can go in AM.

61126 converts to 2/12/14 at 10:45 - the beginning of the pairs free skate in figure skating. Sounds like two alliances.
1963 is the area of a circle with a radius of 25 inches. Perhaps the max size the bot can be.

62326 coverts to 2/13/14 at 6:45 - just before the beginning of the short track speed skating. While it isn't the exact minute, perhaps the use of a palindrome here represents having to go back and forth. This would be the end game.
Still trying to figure out what the last number, 15806 would represent in this case.

Just some different thoughts on this hint.

Have fun - Geekmas is almost here! :)

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Long Shot - Security is often handled with Codes / Passwords / Combinations. Post boxes often have combinations. So could there be a "mailbox of sorts" that we have to use a combination to in order to deliver a game object.

Neal

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Just took a look at patents with the number 15806,
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...rmdo=1&tbm=pts
and I got geo steering assemblies and a basket carrier.

Somerun want to run with this?

Either I or someone else should check the other numbers.

EDIT: Just went back and checked some of the other numbers:
62326 gives us a patent for a safety ladder....stairs anyone?

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

I like this.
Patents contain design information.
DEKA is into patents.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEKA_(company)

Can you post links?

Oh, you did.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Here is an image of the basket patent?

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Hmmm...

The picture from the basket patent includes glass bottles. We also previously discussed the potential importance of the water bottles at the feet of Dean and Woodie in the picture posted earlier in this thread. The game this year may have a connection to recycling, most likely sorting game pieces.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

1.(New) Has anyone considered going to the places in real life? I know that we have found signs at two of the points that seem relevant, but only a church at the third. There might be something else there that is hard or can't be found with google maps.

2.(Reflection) I think that baseball seems very likely. Between the graph that produces the sphere when the base points are put in, the fact that we are due for a ball game, and the puns on baseball.

3.(New info on old theory) I agree with whoever mentioned the difficulty with an abstract game. As someone who did field reset at midwest last year (I have never counted to 15 so many times before in my life), match turnover is so much easier when the scoring only counts once(i.e. No multipliers) . The sensors were what put the score up on the screen, but the score that actually determined the match was what we counted out. Usually we would count the Frisbees as they came in and kept a running count, but if we lost count, or there were 50+ we would do a manual recount which could take more than a minute. For there to be multipliers would make everything just so much more difficult. The game overall will probably be easy to follow along, the game pieces that are scored in the higher goals count more etc. This also makes sense with the way FIRST has been building their games in previous years. There is an easy, low point, way to score, a middle, and a difficult. The game will probably have multiple ways of scoring, some easy others difficult, and the points will probably not have multiplies.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

If there is a third alliance there is NO way it can be GREEN. The two alliances are always BLUE and RED which are part of the tricolour scheme FIRST employs. The only possible colour for an additional alliance would be WHITE.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Again, anyone suggesting three alliances, I invite you to attend to a district event, and please tell me where this third alliance station will be placed, along with the new queuing as well.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

White might not work as a bumper color because the bumper rules indicate that the numbers MUST be WHITE, NO color other than WHITE, and may not be anything other than WHITE. White on white doesn't work too well. The bumper numbers may be outlined in another color, but that wouldn't show up too well even then.

My 2cents

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

While I love the idea of 3 Alliances (3 teams of 2), and its implications on game play and strategy, I think that logistically it will be difficult. Three alliances would mean 3 sets of bumpers. If you have been down near the field during a regional (and I imagine district events too) you can tell see how much stuff is done to keep everything running smoothly, three alliances would complicate that. Keeping just red and blue strait for queuing takes effort. Scoring for 3 alliances would also be more complicated. While I love the idea, I don't think it's logistically probable. Although I do agree, if there are three alliances it is going to be red, white and blue.

I Also think we have over analysed that photo, there is a green screen because they wanted to add in backgrounds post production, there were three water-bottles because there were three people being filmed. I'm pretty sure that there were red and blue lights because that is how you set up lighting, but i'm not sure about that one.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

How did you get a look at the 2014 manual?? ::rtm::

Never count on any rules staying the same from year to year. Anything from last year could change.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

FIRST could change both of these rules to accommodate a new game maybe just for white bumper black lettering and for three alliances a smaller differently shaped field (other than rectangular 54x27 foot field)
You guys are acting like FIRST couldn't change their own rules

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

What are people inputting into wolfram alpha to get the sphere?

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

I'd go into why 3 alliances will NOT work, but I've done that too many times in the last couple months.

I will leave you with this: The last time they did 1v1v1, the colors were red, blue, and white, with white removed for eliminations. White numbers on white bumpers would be easily solved by requiring a black border on all numbers.

The last time they did more than 3 separate scoring opportunities for robots, in 2001, the 4 colors were red, blue, green, and yellow.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

If they did change the shape of the field, they would have to decrease the size of it, in order to still fit it in a high school gym. A rectangle is the optimal size for a gym. And having more robots on a smaller field wouldn't exactly be fun.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

I think that we have exhausted the discussion about 2 vs 3 alliances. Could we move onto another part of the FRC game hint?

My crazy prediction. The game will be called FIRST Base

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Any three noncolinear points define a sphere, however I'm not sure how they got the nine numbers necessary (x1, y1, z1, ... z3). It probably doesn't mean anything.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

The mentor for my team found some of this information:

"OK.... I'll play the guessing game as well.
On Amazon, there is a product with the number 8234/57. It's a picture with a lot of different box sizes.
(http://www.amazon.com/iCanvasART-Pic.../dp/B00D99PYKK)

On You-tube, there is a video of a plane in Rockford, IL (area code 61126) from 1963
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtkQ6wA9rYY)

Last hint: (http://farm.ewg.org/top_recips.php?f...corn&page=790), Wiber T Johnson. If you look at Wibert Johnson, you'll see he was a boxer.

So a block sorting game with robots that can't touch the ground...."

The plane could also relate to what others have been saying about making lighter-weight robots

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Hmmm, that's a very interesting interpretation. You might have something here...

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

That's Duane Cole, one of the most famous aerobatic pilots in the 1960s. Two facts might be relevant: His simple Taylorcraft was much lighter than a typical aerobatic aircraft. And he flew inverted so much he had his name painted on the plane upside down.

Makes you wonder...

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

I think I may have figured it out, the challenge has to do with wind.

The first numbers are area codes, to Vilnius Lithuania, Rockford IL, and Colchester, all have wind turbine farms. Right now the museums of Lithuania, has an energy and technology wing, which includes wind. In 1957 the museum was destroyed in the soviet war. Rockford IL also has a wind farm, with 63 working wind turbines, and on April 4th 1963 the city had major damage due to a wind storm. Now, Colchester IL, and Colchester in UK both have wind turbine farms, but I can't figure out the last number, 15806.

so yah thats what I think

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

From the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
What is Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything?
Answer: 42.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrases...thing_.2842.29

Game has to do with Space. Not necessarily outer space, but maybe reduced size/space on playing field, definitely reduced size chassis.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Maybe we will have to program our robots to find the question:)

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

Ok, let me throw in my 2 cents.

I really like this Iron Man idea. The number 3 is prominent, yes? Baseball is a prominent theory, right? How many bases are there besides home base in baseball? 3.

I'm thinking of a baseball themed game that has a starting point and three "bases" where tasks are to be performed, such as climbing stairs. The goal is to pass all three bases and reach the starting point under a time limit. As for the objectives of each base, I don't know for sure.

There have been multiple people talking about the sphere, rectangle, and triangle. What shape is a baseball? A sphere.

As for the rectangle and triangle, have you seen the home plate of a baseball field? The shape of the home plate is comprised of two different shapes: a triangle and a rectangle. Also, the infield of a baseball field is called a "diamond". A diamond has four sides and is somewhat rectangular, so it could work as a field shape.

Just my thoughts.

Re: [FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint
 

You could have figured that out without this game hint:

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...c/kit-of-parts

The size of the box or kit means it is very unlikely that the robot size would go back up to the old size of 28x38. It looks like it will stay somewhere around the 112 perimeter like last year (or 24x32 if you keep about the same rectangle ratio).

-Nick