Re: Victor 888 vs Jaguar for rookie drive train
 

The thing to take away from the kitbot on steroids to apply to the 2014 kitobot is to use 4 motors. The new chassis will be using belts like the 2013 chassis and will direct drive the center wheel. Belts are ready to go out of the box and were proven in competition last season. Switching it to chains would be counter productive as they add weight and coming up with the parts necessary to convert it will likely mean some fabrication, and waiting for parts to do so.

Do yourself a favor and put the kit bot together in one of the configurations that the instructions show you how to do. When your additional CIMS show up add them to your fully functioning chassis. Meanwhile have your electrical and programming team prepare for 4 motor drive just don't install the breakers and pwm cables for the other two motors and controllers until you have them. In the mean time you can have a running and driving chassis and have drivers practicing.

With a small and new team your best use of time is to focus on the game piece manipulator.

Re: Victor 888 vs Jaguar for rookie drive train
 

While important, there is a *lot* more to take away from it than that. Consider using high traction treaded wheels instead of Kit wheels for added resistance to pushing. Use a plywood electronics board in order to stiffen the chassis.

While the belts are more than fine, and if they work for you they should be used, chain isn't bad either. You can *definitely* build a chain kitbot drive without fabricating anything (teams did that for YEARS), and chain does give you the ability to use different wheel spacings than the kit starts with. The tradeoff is that chain weighs more and requires tensioning.

Definitely. Find the easiest task with a high return on investment and excel at it.

Re: Victor 888 vs Jaguar for rookie drive train
 

Max,
I prefer the IFI Victor solution over the Jags. While many will point to the lack of limit switch input, non-linear output, calibration and PWM retention as cons, all of these issues are easily overcome with other solutions. The Victor is a rugged little controller that you can continue to use for years to come and be happy with it. If you search out other posts here on CD you will find that the differences are relatively minor. The linearity for instance is more a function of switching frequency, calibration is needed for all controllers and PWM retention is easily overcome with tywraps or other cable management. I personally find the fault modes on the Jag troublesome for many teams. High load current, low input voltage and over temp can set the Jag into fault which disables the output for a few seconds after the fault is removed. The Jag does let you know (if you can see the LEDs) when it has entered fault mode. However, having one side fault while the other still drives makes for interesting driver response.

Re: Victor 888 vs Jaguar for rookie drive train
 

What is alarming me, is that its sounding like you may intend to get along with only 4 or possibly 5 speed controllers total. This will almost assuredly not be enough. Even the simplest effective scoring machines using 4 drive motors I've seen in 10+ years of FRC have used a minimum of 5, and more commonly 6-8 speed controllers in total.

Re: Victor 888 vs Jaguar for rookie drive train
 

Agreed,

Our bot from last year had 9 controllers.

(1) Jag - Tilter
(6) Victor - (4) Drive, (2) Shooter
(2) Vex Motor Controller 29 - (1) Slider, (1) Indexer

The Jag was great for our tilter because it allowed us to use the built-in limit switch connections to limit the amount of travel on the tilter.

Re: Victor 888 vs Jaguar for rookie drive train
 

This is true, but you can have 20 different PWM outputs. No team will need 20 different outputs, so number of outputs isn't really an issue.

Having lots of speed controllers is nice. Last year, we had 4 on drive, 1 shooter, one for climber deployment, and three for the climber for a total of eight.

Re: Victor 888 vs Jaguar for rookie drive train
 

I'm pretty sure I count only 10 PWM outputs on the Digital Sidecar. Therefore, I'm assuming you're referring to using two digital modules and two sidecars.

If you use the default setup, i.e. where a Black Jaguar is used as a Serial to CAN bridge, you max out at 16 CAN nodes (though multiple teams have posted that they had comm issues at 12 to 14 nodes). I'm unsure of the maximum for a 2CAN setup, but I believe that it should be higher.

Therefore, the protocol that can handle more nodes it is dependent on how many digital modules and sidecars you use (which in turn is partially based off of your model of cRIO -- the older model had more slots available).

All of this being said, I tend to agree with magnets; the number of nodes you can control with either protocol is really not a factor in deciding what protocol a team will implement on their robot. And this is all completely tangential to the OP's question, to which it sounds like they'd rather use Victors.

Re: Victor 888 vs Jaguar for rookie drive train
 

That is true. However, when you have small things like servos and pneumatics (don't they use PWM?), you will get quite cramped. I think we may have maxed out on our PWM capabilities. We didn't want to do something funky like multiple DSes. But I guess that's what happens when you want too many functions in a robot (Good shooter [until it broke] and a reliable climbing mechanism)

Re: Victor 888 vs Jaguar for rookie drive train
 

Servos do take up one of your PWM ports. You also need to install a jumper to ensure correct voltage.

Pneumatics are not typically controlled via Digital Sidecar (though you can control them with relays). Teams generally use the Solenoid Breakout.

Relays don't physically use the PWM ports on the DS. You can see in the picture that there 8 sets of relay pins below the PWM ports and in between the I2C port and Digital IO ports.

But let's not hijack this thread; let's get back to answering the OP's question, not answering various side questions about how many PWM connections you can make or how cramped the DS gets. That's the subject of a different thread.

Re: Victor 888 vs Jaguar for rookie drive train
 

Rookie teams also get 2 Victors and 1 Jag in their Kit of Parts.

See here: http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default...tion_Table.pdf

Re: Victor 888 vs Jaguar for rookie drive train
 

Please stop scaring the rookie teams by talking number of minimum number of motor controllers. The question is Victor or Jag? As rookie team couple of years back smoked 2jags, after that victor has been our fav, 888 is awesome (disclaimer: we are not in the top 10 teams, but did better than others).

Re: Victor 888 vs Jaguar for rookie drive train
 

Correct, I was just referring to what they get in the IFI PDV.