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-   General Forum (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Aerial Assist Discussion Thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123956)

Aur0r4 05-01-2014 02:08
Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 
I have to respectfully disagree that this game is "bland".

As we dug into the possible gameplay strategies, it became very apparent that this game will play out similar to a football game...only with two balls :D . Complete with a (probable) line of scrimmage in the white zone where the two opposing alliances are simultaneously playing defense against the advancing opponents while trying to move up with their ball. If the NFL is interesting...this could be twice the fun.

Many, many different "plays" started to emerge, including some that illustrated how genius the middle human player really can be.

Make no mistake....this could be one of the most interesting games we've ever seen (and I'm a game cynic). There are some crazy strategy possibilities that can can change by the second in each match.

I'm actually quite excited.....secret end game or not!

BBray_T1296 05-01-2014 02:10
Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 
With all this talk about 1O 2D Alliances being as points-capable as a 2O 1D or 3O alliance (at least in many regionals) I would like to point out this EXTREMELY important fact:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rules
5.3.4 Qualification Seeding

All Teams participating in the Tournament are seeded during the Qualification MATCHES. If the number of Teams in attendance is 'n', they are seeded '1' through 'n', with '1' being the highest seeded Team and 'n' being the lowest seeded Team.

The FMS ranks all Teams in decreasing order, using the following sorting criteria:

Table 5-1: Qualification MATCH Ranking Criteria
1st order sort Qualification Score
2nd order sort Cumulative Sum of ASSIST Points
...

This means that winning matches is the most important (obviously)
but if all you do is play by yourself, you are crippling yourself if other teams have the same win-loss score as you, if they got their points using assists.

Aur0r4 05-01-2014 02:15
Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBray_T1296 (Post 1321254)
With all this talk about 1O 2D Alliances being as points-capable as a 2O 1D or 3O alliance (at least in many regionals) I would like to point out this EXTREMELY important fact:




This means that winning matches is the most important (obviously)
but if all you do is play by yourself, you are crippling yourself if other teams have the same win-loss score as you, if they got their points using assists.
Correct!

Teams must also remember that this game is unlike ANY game we've played in a very long time. The critical difference is that there is only one game piece in play for your alliance at one time.

You don't really have the option of being "just a great scorer" in this game. You simply don't have the pieces to score if you can't get it up the field. You can't get it up the field if the opposing "linebackers" try to stop you. You can't get out of that without tossing or "punting". That's not terribly effective if you (or your partners) can't catch. Then there's the human player in the mix. And the truss. And the other team trying to do the same thing in the same space.

As they say....specialization is for insects. This game is a great example of this! The key design concept for 2014 is "Multi-Role Robots".

bduddy 05-01-2014 02:43
Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Shelley (Post 1321106)
Unless that pointless extra height has something to do with a yet to be mentioned part of the game :ahh:
Umm... pointless? You mean, other than blocking the high goal, like they showed in the video?

Did everyone here even watch the game animation, let alone read the rulebook? I mean, seriously, some of the things I've been reading....

pfreivald 05-01-2014 09:37
Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bduddy (Post 1321271)
Umm... pointless? You mean, other than blocking the high goal, like they showed in the video?

Did everyone here even watch the game animation, let alone read the rulebook? I mean, seriously, some of the things I've been reading....
I think the argument is that a 6" wide blocker trying to defend 22 feet of goal is pointless. There's no way your robot can drive 12 feet in the time it takes the shooter to rotate thirty degrees.

A defense bot would be best served by ignoring the 6" extension and building an excellent drive train.

Rohawk1 05-01-2014 10:22
Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfreivald (Post 1321338)
I think the argument is that a 6" wide blocker trying to defend 22 feet of goal is pointless. There's no way your robot can drive 12 feet in the time it takes the shooter to rotate thirty degrees.

A defense bot would be best served by ignoring the 6" extension and building an excellent drive train.
Exactly, in order to have a competitive defense bot this year, the drive train has to be fast, strong and agile. Drivers will have to be extremely good this year.

ninjosh97 05-01-2014 10:28
Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aur0r4 (Post 1321251)
I have to respectfully disagree that this game is "bland".

As we dug into the possible gameplay strategies, it became very apparent that this game will play out similar to a football game...only with two balls :D . Complete with a (probable) line of scrimmage in the white zone where the two opposing alliances are simultaneously playing defense against the advancing opponents while trying to move up with their ball. If the NFL is interesting...this could be twice the fun.

Many, many different "plays" started to emerge, including some that illustrated how genius the middle human player really can be.

Make no mistake....this could be one of the most interesting games we've ever seen (and I'm a game cynic). There are some crazy strategy possibilities that can can change by the second in each match.

I'm actually quite excited.....secret end game or not!
What kind of things were you thinking about for the human player?
I'm curious! :D

heisenburger 05-01-2014 10:47
Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 
Where do you start at when programming?

alexander.h 05-01-2014 11:21
Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 
Just to get things straight, how many balls per alliance are on the field at a time?

cbudrecki 05-01-2014 11:26
Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexander.h (Post 1321401)
Just to get things straight, how many balls per alliance are on the field at a time?
during autonomous, up to 3. After the autonomous balls are put in goals (still unclear whether or not these would actually be SCORED), only 1 ball per alliance.

dubiousSwain 05-01-2014 11:48
Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oblarg (Post 1321107)
Color me skeptical.

As a mildly humorous aside, does anyone see any rule against building a 5'-tall, 50''-long wall-on-wheels which extends 20'' on either side, with the aim of parking it in front of the opposing driver station to obstruct vision? While I clearly don't expect anyone to actually do this (it'd be obnoxious and decidedly un-sportsmanlike), I can't find anything disallowing it.
first example in R8

Quote:
A. Shields, curtains, or any other devices or materials designed or used to obstruct or limit the vision of any DRIVERS and/or COACHES and/or interfere with their ability to safely control their
ROBOT

sandman730 05-01-2014 12:00
Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 
Just to jump on the speculation train... That Truss looks awfully sturdy. Anyone know if it could support 720 lbs?

GearMan98 05-01-2014 12:02
Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 
It's rated for 1726. There's another thread going on about that right now.

Racer26 05-01-2014 12:50
Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBray_T1296 (Post 1321254)
With all this talk about 1O 2D Alliances being as points-capable as a 2O 1D or 3O alliance (at least in many regionals) I would like to point out this EXTREMELY important fact:

This means that winning matches is the most important (obviously)
but if all you do is play by yourself, you are crippling yourself if other teams have the same win-loss score as you, if they got their points using assists.
Yes. Number one sort is W-L-T (QS) though. Winning the match is more important than scoring assist points. As I've said elsewhere on here, when paired with capable teams that won't slow them down, the elites will do assists. When their 2 alliance partners assisting would result in less total points scored? They won't hesitate to go solo.

This is much like 1114s conscious decision to forego auto points in 2013 in favour of a 30pt climber.

iPenguin 05-01-2014 12:57
Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddF (Post 1321120)
The defense against such a two ball auto mode is to park a tall defensive bot in their shot line before the match. Rather than being useless, that appendage now becomes worth 35 points. (Unless the shooter has the ability to sense the blocker and rotate to shoot around the appendage.)
I think you're forgetting a pretty important rule in the form of G4:
Quote:
When placed on the FIELD, each ROBOT must be:
A. in compliance with all ROBOT rules (i.e. have passed Inspection),
B. confined to its STARTING CONFIGURATION,
C. entirely within their GOALIE ZONE, or
entirely within the white ZONE and between the TRUSS and their GOALS, and
D. fully supported by the floor.
(emphasis mine on C)


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