Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Based off the scoring diagram on page 18, it seems like it might.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

And the pedestal doesn't light up until all 3 balls are off the field right? So if you can's score autonomous you get to become a goalie...

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

So, what happens if a robot doesn't work, and it's got a ball in it (from beginning of auto let's say), no points for the alliance?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

All 3 or however many an alliance chooses to start with, including, zero.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

What if a team cannot loose possession of a ball though? Does that mean the alliance can never start a cycle?

EDIT: Nevermind, someone just beat me to asking this.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

With assists, the low goals can still be valuable. The 10 & 30 point bonuses also apply to the low goals.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

If you get a ball from your team stuck inside your robot, then tough luck, I guess. You can't use the ball, and you can't get another ball into play until your ball has been scored, which isn't going to happen, 'cause you can't use the ball.

If you get your opponents' ball stuck inside your robot, though... that's a technical foul, right? But is it just one technical foul, or do they add more on over time? The rules say "technical foul per instance"... I assume this is one thing they're going to change over the coming weeks, otherwise it might be worth it to steal your opponents' ball and sit on it for the whole match.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Has anyone seen anything that says it's okay to block passes by intentionally driving between two opponent robots or even pushing a ball out from in front of a robot that's pushing the ball along the field?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

If you can't score in one of the goals in autonomous mode, you can also drive into your zone and get five points. If you can cross into your zone and score in the "hot" goal, you can get 25 points in autonomous mode.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

I'm guessing not, based on 3.1.4:
The CYCLE doesn't start until after all the BALLS from AUTO have been SCORED. (3.1.2)

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

But that logic would make the autonomous goals not count as well. I read that rule to limit the number of truss/catch points per cycle.

In 3.1.4 it says specifically for assist points:
"ASSISTS are earned when a unique ALLIANCE ROBOT POSSESSES the ALLIANCE’S BALL in a unique ZONE (i.e. red, white, or blue ZONE) during a CYCLE."

It does not say specifically that truss points "only count within a cycle."

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

What do you guys say about G4, G5?

Auto setup - does setting up a robot in "thier goalie zone" mean he is placed on the opposite alliance's side and can block in auto? or does it mean he starts in the goalie zone of his color?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

It does create a Catch-22 situation if BALLS are SCORED only during AUTO or in a CYCLE. A CYCLE doesn't start until all the BALLS from AUTO have been SCORED. But they can't actually SCORE after AUTO ends.

And the following text in 3.1.4 that tells when BALLS are SCORED says nothing about being inside a CYCLE.

Something for the GDC to clarify.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Question regarding auto if anybody has any ideas. The robot is allowed to drive up to the 10pt goal and shoot/roll/layup the ball or does it have to be done from the white zone before the robot enters the red/blue zone?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

I'm new to first and by looking quickly through the manual i didn't find any programming rules. so are there any programing rules?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

That line you quote where the cycle doesn't begin until all auto balls are "scored"...
They obviously do not mean "truss" scored, but "goal" scored. A clarification is needed, although I do take it to mean that all balls must be scored in goals before a cycle begins. I still see it so far that truss/catch scores are valid using balls that begin in autonomous.

I would very much like to get that clarified.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

What is the password for the encrypted data?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

FIRST is pretty lenient with the programming rules. You can choose between Labview, C++ (Winriver), or Java (Netbeans). When programming, you must make sure to implement watchdog, which is a function that automatically shuts down the robot to prevent safety hazards if it isn't "fed" within a certain amount of time. Of course, you also must be sure your code doesn't allow control while disabled or autonomous, of course.

I'm sure there's other rules, but those are the big ones.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

3Zones2Goals1Alliance!

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

I'm really confused about the role of the human players, specifically these ones: http://min.us/i/bpK5KsFVN1YvK

G38 prevents player C from passing the ball to player A, and G39 prevents player A from getting the ball himself. Furthermore, player A is forbidden from inbounding a ball by G36. So what exactly do player A and B do?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

I believe the field staff members have the duty to bring balls to "the nearest team member"?

Edit: It says

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Oops, yeah. But if the ball is scored, don't the staff members put the ball on the pedestal all the way on the other end of the field?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Players A and B serve two rules -- a robot can pass a ball to one of those two players, and then the human can pass it back in [given certain slight restrictions, e.g. the human barrier, no interfering with the other team]; AND if a ball goes out of bounds, then players A and B might very well be given the ball and then they have the opportunity to pass it back in. They cannot leave the area for the whole of the game period.


Player C can move about freely within that U-shaped region, and can retrieve the ball from the pedestal and pass it into play.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Ok, that makes sense now. And there's no rule against having all three players behind the alliance wall?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Our team has been looking. We can't find any.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

I was wondering the same thing... Definitely need clarification on this rule.

So what if my ball gets stuck on top of the truss? How would I continue my cycle and move on to the next. And is the number of cycles you have only limited by how quickly you can score your ball. And how many balls is there after autonomous. You start off with 3 but after that is the next cycle just 1 ball.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

The pinning rule has been like that for at least 3 years.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Now that I'm reading the manual (skimmed earlier) and I've spent the past four hours in a conference room with my team discussing this beautiful monster of a game, I think my initial impression stands: "So this is what Lunacy felt like. Great."

I think it'll be way more fun when we actually get to playing it, but right now, I'd say 5 or 6 out of 10.

I'd be interested to know why they decided to eliminate the end game, other than flabbergasting everybody in some way. That, and cutting autonomous so short.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

You are stuck, sorry. Currently there are no rules for getting a new ball for a CYCLE if the ball is inaccessible (on top of the truss or in a robot).


Also, the balls not SCORED in AUTO must all be SCORED before the first CYCLE can begin.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

This rule has been exactly the same for many years. This game has more possibilities for defense than many before it... I'm guessing you weren't around for Logomotion?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

I'm not so sure. With no "safe zone" for shooting this year, there might be more defense than you think.

Also, what was the deal in the kickoff about "things changing during the season"? You don't suppose the end game will be announched with Team Update #2 or something like that do you?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

The cooperation is withing your own team and throughout the game this year.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

I have only read seven pages of this, is someone already pointed this out, forgive me. Until then get out your tinfoil hats.

I really think we are all missing out on a major clue, a clue that is going to be vital to the game. Watch this video from about two minutes in and on. You may have missed this line but it is so important.

"We are doing this a bit differently this year, making changes from kickoff to championships this year"

What changes have been made this year thus far? This game is exactly the same as every other year, with no organizational differences championship wise. We also don't have an endgame this year, and for such an easy challenge, this seems odd.

Think about it, the only challenge is team coordination, everything else is just pure driver twitch skills. Now go back your pictures of the truss from kickoff, I know you took them, that thing is hefty. We had two or three people hanging from it at the Upper Darby Kickoff, no sag.

Why would they bother to build such a hefty truss that could be replaced with a taught rope? We believe the reason is because there is an endgame we don't know about yet. Now, look at the extremely detailed rules about height requirements for the goalie, these are super detailed, yet so horrible.

No one is going to be able to play affective defense with 6 inch diameter pole that cannot be articulated. Having a dedicated goalie will be a drag on the rest of the team (missing out on tri-assists). I believe, personally, the lack of a height limit will be extended to the incoming endgame in which you must attempt a hang.

A hang? We had a hang last year? We did, but it sucked, those pyramids were $@#$ near impossible to climb to the top, everyone just did level one holds. They were a major disappointment. Why not give us a chance to retry it.

A Mid-season added endgame challenge seems so plausible right now.

sets aside tinfoil hat

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

I have a question regarding human players. If they can pass the ball back into the game, they can only pass it to their designated color zone, right? So that eliminates passing from a robot to a human player? (Effectively) Is the human player's job only to introduce balls into the field? Oh wait,that's more than one question. Oh well :rolleyes:

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

That's pretty interesting... Woody says they're making changes throughout the season to "keep things fresh"

I think you might actually be on to something...

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Sorry if this has already been asked. Do assists have to go in sequential order? For example: Normally the passing would be done blue zone to white zone to red zone. Can this be bypassed by doing a long shot from the blue zone to the red zone?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

From the Manual ...
So theoretically yes, shooting from blue to red would be an assist as the ball is in a unique zone provided the robot that picks it up is not the same one that shot it (it too must be unique). That would only be your second assist however (with the first being the introduction of the ball by the human player) so you would need to pass to a different player in white to get the third assist. At least that is my interpretation of the rule's wording

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

...Might it be legal to shoot the ball over the truss and catch it YOURSELF for the 20 points?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

This was discussed a little earlier - the ball must have been thrown over the truss by an alliance partner to get the catch bonus

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

The manual states that you have to pass to a partner. I only asked my question for cases where the third robot is disabled. Thanks for confirming my suspicions,

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Thanks for the clarification.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Think it is worth making a speculation topic for? All the teams I have talked to are suspecting similar, that truss is just too beefy to be simply a rope. The video itself even shows people climbing it, along with the fact that the interior struts (the angler things) are separated much more wide then in a normal truss.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Yeah, make a topic. This actually seems pretty plausible

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

You can get 3 robots with possession, throw it over the middle bar, have a robot catch it, and score for 60 points.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

The whole game is a cooperative task

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

This. We're saving 20 pounds in our design for it.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

He may have meant a coopertitive (coopertition-based) task.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

What if i'm in the red zone and shoot the ball over the truss to a robot in the white zone? 30 points or foul?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

This I find as Extremely false because my team, Greater Rochester Robotics (G.R.R.) 340, on practice day at Finger Lakes Regional we showed a full 30 point climb and we preformed that almost every match after that including at the Buckeye Regional ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyq0w7H76IU ). We also saw at least 2 other teams do a 30 point climb at Buckeye.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Blue Robot in Red Zone (loading area) shoots over the Truss to a Robot in the White Zone = assist #2 = +10pts if scored

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

^^this
Here is the truss spec sheet. This thing is a heavy duty lighting truss. A 30' span can support 1726 lbs evenly distributed. Saving weight for a later endgame addition might be a very good idea.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

so we get 10 pts for assist, 10 for going over the truss, 10 for a robot catching it (assuming it does) and 10 for score on the high goal, right?

edit: and another 10 if we pass it to a robot our the scoring zone

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Just added this fact to this speculation thread. I think it is best we move this over there to clear the room for questions here. :)

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Wow, can't believe I forgot the truss and catch bonuses :o ... yes, your analysis appears to be correct

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

That is an awesome climb! Although many did succeed, a much great number didn't even attempt more then one. I feel like that was very much outside of the spirit of FRC, and I see no reason for them not to attempt to get us to try again.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

I'm not sure if shooting into the high goal will be more difficult than it at first seems, but this game almost seems...too easy. (Drat, jinxed my whole team there, didn't I?)

That means that the challenge is in taking this "too easy" challenge and doing it better than everyone else--which is never easy.

Still, it's as or more challenging than designing a robot for Lunacy, and should be well more fun to play/watch.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Has anyone started thinking about drive train yet? I personally have more experience with mechanum, but I'm not sure what my team is thinking about drive train. Any ideas?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

By my count, 60.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

I'm wondering the same thing. I generally design the drive system for our team, but this year so far we feel like agility is above being defensive (not my personal though, I feel like good wheels with nice grip are a great thing to have on the chance that everything else in our robot decides to fail and we can't fix it before the next match). I've personally never done mechanum, we tend to stay more towards tank drive. But there has already been talk of swerve drive and butterfly drive. However we are leaning more towards mechanum because I am moving on to the more complicated subsystems in mechanical, as is my co-captain. So we will see what happens. Any help with mechanum would be appreciated though!

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Okay, I've read the rules pretty thoroughly, and there's something I can't figure out, if my ball starts in the driver zone, and I can't cross between zones, and I can't pass between zones (driver and human player) and the ball must be entered from the side of the field, how do I get the ball onto the field?

I've noticed users talking about how this challenge is a blend of multiple past challenges. One of our college mentors referenced Breakaway (2010) often during brainstorming as a similar game principal.

The past challenge I haven't seen mentioned yet that may be helpful in design ideas (ball transport!) and such is Overdrive (2008) due to the large playing pieces.

Edit: I noticed this thread after posting: 2008 actuated forklifts

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

We weighed our inflated ball this afternoon, and it was 2.75 lbs. Now, my question is, how much variance is there in the weight of the balls?

Could make a big difference in shooting it.

Mike

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

The ball weighs 2.75 lbs.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

I'm guessing you're referring to the autonomous period. Before the match begins, you are allowed to preload a ball onto your robot following the specifications in G5:

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Really, you think that analyzing the game and deciding that one aspect of it is not worth the effort for your team is not in the spirit of FRC? I have to be misunderstanding you, because that is frankly ridiculous.

Did your team attempt to 30 point climb? And shoot frisbees? And pick up frisbees off of the ground? And dump colored discs into pyramid goal? And full court shoot? And score 7 discs in autonomous? And build your robot under 30 inches? And put a tall 84" blocker on your robot?

You don't need to attempt everything to succeed or to be "in the spirit of FRC", you only need to do a small handful of things well.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Sorry, I'll be more specific, I was refering to teleop, how does the human player get the ball to the robot while following all of these rules:

3.2.7.5 G35
BALLS may only be retrieved from the PEDESTAL and only if the PEDESTAL is lit in the ALLIANCE’s color.
3.2.7.7 G37
A BALL inbounded after retrieval from the PEDESTAL must be entered on to the FIELD from the side of the FIELD (i.e. over the GUARDRAIL).
3.2.7.8 G38
HUMAN PLAYERS may not pass the BALL to a HUMAN PLAYER in another HUMAN PLAYER AREA (passing the BALL within an ALLIANCE STATION or HUMAN PLAYER AREA is permitted).
3.2.7.9 G39
During the MATCH, TEAMS must remain in contact with the area of the FIELD (ALLIANCE STATION or HUMAN PLAYER AREA) in which they started the MATCH. Exceptions will be granted for inadvertent, momentary, and inconsequential infractions and in cases concerning safety.

Unless by "passing the BALL within an ALLIANCE STATION or HUMAN PLAYER AREA is permitted" they mean that you can pass the ball between those two zones?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

I did not mean it to be jerky so sorry if you read it as I was. I was just stating my opinion on the climbing.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Darth Drew, it appears that the only legal way to introduce a new ball to the field is to take the ball that is on the pedestal(once it's lit up) and toss it onto the field from the side of the alliance station.

Since you can't pass between human players from the alliance station to the human player area, there is no way for somebody in the human player area to introduce any new balls. They can only catch and pass balls that are passed to them by a robot on the field.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

There were a number of teams in 2008 that built successful designs that, for the most part, can transfer over to this year's game. 1625 and 1114 quickly come to mind.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Say for example you are on the Red Alliance. Based on the image from section 2.2.7, it seems the only place to inbound a ball is at the indicated markings I have drawn.


As for the second part of your question, the keyword there is within, as in if there are 2 Human Players in the Alliance Station or 2 Human Players in THE SAME Human Player Area, then they can pass the ball between them. Note again rule G38 where a Human Player in 1 Human Player Area cannot pass a ball to the other Human Player who is in the opposite Human Player Area.


EDIT: Does anyone know how I can shrink that photo to fit within the normal width of the thread?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Oh, okay, I was confused because when I saw the video I assumed the people on the sides would be introducing the ball, and I didn't realize that the driver zone extended around the corner, thanks.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Are the balls form auto removed from play at the start of teleop if they were not scored. If they are not are they considered field debris or are is one of them chosen to be played?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

The remaining balls from auto must be scored before the first cycle can begin. Since the cycle hasn't begun yet any assists, truss throws, or catches that you get with those balls won't count as bonus points.

Just a hair under 5 pounds

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Where are you getting that? We weighed ours and it's about 2.75 pounds.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

And when we weighed ours it was about 2.5lbs. I am inclined to think weight variances like this will effect how the robot shoots :(

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

What's with all the crazy height requirements? Has anyone fully figured it out?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Unless your in your goal zone your robot is restricted to a 5' height. Inside your goal zone something that will fit inside a 6" cylinder can extend upwards.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Honestly, does FIRST expect anyone at all to do this? It sounds completely non-viable.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Unless that pointless extra height has something to do with a yet to be mentioned part of the game :ahh:

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Color me skeptical.

As a mildly humorous aside, does anyone see any rule against building a 5'-tall, 50''-long wall-on-wheels which extends 20'' on either side, with the aim of parking it in front of the opposing driver station to obstruct vision? While I clearly don't expect anyone to actually do this (it'd be obnoxious and decidedly un-sportsmanlike), I can't find anything disallowing it.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Well, most people could see over a 5' wall? I think. :P

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

It has come up that this year's equivalent to last year's 5 disk auto mode is the two ball auto mode. If one of your two alliance partners can't shoot high goals, take their ball and place it in front of your shooter. First shoot your ball, then pick up and shoot theirs. This gets you 35 total auto points instead of 20, if it had just sat on the ground.

The defense against such a two ball auto mode is to park a tall defensive bot in their shot line before the match. Rather than being useless, that appendage now becomes worth 35 points. (Unless the shooter has the ability to sense the blocker and rotate to shoot around the appendage.)

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

4.2.1 R8
ROBOT parts shall not be made from hazardous materials, be unsafe, cause an unsafe condition, or interfere with the
operation of other ROBOTS.
Examples of items that will violate R8include (but are not limited to):
A. Shields, curtains, or any other devices or materials designed or used to obstruct or
limit the vision of any DRIVERS and/or COACHES and/or interfere with their ability to
safely control their ROBOT
B. Speakers, sirens, air horns, or other audio devices that generate sound at a level
sufficient to be a distraction
C. Any devices or decorations specifically intended to jam or interfere with the remote
sensing capabilities of another ROBOT, including vision systems, acoustic range finders,
sonars, infrared proximity detectors, etc. (e.g. including imagery on your ROBOT that, to
a reasonably astute observer, mimics the VISION TARGET)
D. Exposed lasers other than Class I.
page

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Well, there we have it. That settles that!

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Andymark's specs say the ball weighs 2.75 lbs. (but does not state if that is the inflated weight or not). Maybe your scale is off?
I have seen multiple people say the ball weighs 5 lbs. Where are you getting this information from?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Who puts the ball on the pedestal?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Field crew. They are in charge of chasing balls and loading the pedestals.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

I feel like there is a bigger purpose for the truss...i mean why would they put all the time and money into something that a rope, a rod, or something of the sort could replace.

But besides that i'm interested to see how teams are going to shoot the balls...should be a fairly interesting year

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Is it at all possible to get points for an assist if the opposite alliance accidentally gains possession of your game piece? Or is that completely ridiculous?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

If the opposing alliance possesses your alliance's game piece, then they incur a technical foul and you receive 50 points.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Your assists do not reset. You would gain no further assists from an opponents robot contacting your game piece in a yet uncontacted zone.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

So there is no goalie zone height restriction. If your robot pokes the ceiling can you complain that they lied?

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Well, it has its advantages and disadvantages.
THE GOOD STUFF
-Provides for a lot more design possibilities. It's always seemed like, in the past, we had a few certain best ways to do the task. One that won the most competitions, got the most points.
-It forces you to depend on your alliance more. People need to cooperate at a really deep level to win.
-Gets rid of robot specialization. For example, last year, our team was the "designated climber", which got us far. This year, that won't fly. Every robot needs to be able to perform every task well if the team wants to mesh well with the alliance.
THE BAD STUFF
-Seems very unoriginal. I can't really put it into words, but Aerial Assist seems to be "missing" something. This could be just me getting used to it, as it's very, very different from every other challenge.
-It forces you to depend on your alliance more. FIRST's notion of "cooperatition" is a very good thing, but I feel like this may be taking it a step too far. I also feel like it's putting more pressure on rookie teams to build and compete at an unrealistic level.
-NO ENDGAME. But why? The endgame was amazing, it made every challenge seem like two different games in one. It's very possible they cut it out because of the impossibility of robot specialization, which would make sense, as the one game is complicated enough already.
(Please note all of this is just a collection of my very early opinions, as the season goes on, I will probably change my views on most, if not all, of this.)
I think it's going to be a very interesting year, regardless of anything. This is a totally new type of challenge, and, although I'm not sure how it will go, I get the feeling it's going to be remembered for a long time to come. Also, I think it's very important that we make use of this forum this year. We should all make sure each team knows as much about as many other robots as possible so we can work together more effectively.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

I have to respectfully disagree that this game is "bland".

As we dug into the possible gameplay strategies, it became very apparent that this game will play out similar to a football game...only with two balls :D . Complete with a (probable) line of scrimmage in the white zone where the two opposing alliances are simultaneously playing defense against the advancing opponents while trying to move up with their ball. If the NFL is interesting...this could be twice the fun.

Many, many different "plays" started to emerge, including some that illustrated how genius the middle human player really can be.

Make no mistake....this could be one of the most interesting games we've ever seen (and I'm a game cynic). There are some crazy strategy possibilities that can can change by the second in each match.

I'm actually quite excited.....secret end game or not!

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

With all this talk about 1O 2D Alliances being as points-capable as a 2O 1D or 3O alliance (at least in many regionals) I would like to point out this EXTREMELY important fact:


This means that winning matches is the most important (obviously)
but if all you do is play by yourself, you are crippling yourself if other teams have the same win-loss score as you, if they got their points using assists.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Correct!

Teams must also remember that this game is unlike ANY game we've played in a very long time. The critical difference is that there is only one game piece in play for your alliance at one time.

You don't really have the option of being "just a great scorer" in this game. You simply don't have the pieces to score if you can't get it up the field. You can't get it up the field if the opposing "linebackers" try to stop you. You can't get out of that without tossing or "punting". That's not terribly effective if you (or your partners) can't catch. Then there's the human player in the mix. And the truss. And the other team trying to do the same thing in the same space.

As they say....specialization is for insects. This game is a great example of this! The key design concept for 2014 is "Multi-Role Robots".

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Umm... pointless? You mean, other than blocking the high goal, like they showed in the video?

Did everyone here even watch the game animation, let alone read the rulebook? I mean, seriously, some of the things I've been reading....

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

I think the argument is that a 6" wide blocker trying to defend 22 feet of goal is pointless. There's no way your robot can drive 12 feet in the time it takes the shooter to rotate thirty degrees.

A defense bot would be best served by ignoring the 6" extension and building an excellent drive train.