Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

So, whatcha think?!?

No end game. Interesting.

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What's the manual password?

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So far, I give it a 6/10. It'll probably drop when I read the manual, then rise when I actually see the game

3Zones2Goals1Alliance!

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I love this game to the end of the Earth!

Teamwork FTW! :D

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I like it.

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Password: 3Zones2Goals1Alliance!

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Interesting that there is no end game. Seems like a quick straight forward sport game.

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Yeah I was also surprised that there's no cooperative task to finish with. Go figure.

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Where do we get more of the game balls?

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I don't really know what to think... Right now I'm not really liking this game, but that's my opinion, I feel its like a 5/10 right now... Interesting idea, just seems kinda bland. Once again, just my opinion.

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Its interesting how cumulative assist points are the 2nd sort (after qualification score) making it really critical for seeding high. Section 5.3.4 has the sorting information.

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Ok - since the stream completely sucked for UStream, does anyone know when the YouTube videos will be up?

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Looks pretty awesome. I was hoping for max capacity but large game objects are cool too :).

Wait so what is the max amount of points you can score in a single run?

3 assists in the high goal is 40 points.

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The game video is already uploaded:
http://youtu.be/oxp4dkMQ1Vo

The others should soon follow, but I think those will be on FIRST's page.

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Haven't loaded the manual yet, but it sounds like 30 for 3 assists, 10 for throwing the ball over the truss, and 10 for a 10 pt goal for a total of 50. I think.

EDIT: there's also a 10 point bonus for catching the ball from over the truss, for 60 possible points per cycle.

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40 for a triple-assisted high goal + 10 for passing over truss + 10 for a partner catching it after the truss throw makes 60 max points, right?

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I think 40 because if you get 3 assist it is 30points and then 10 for the high goal

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Yessssss you can plug in whatever laptop you want into the driver station(ie. outlet wise)

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I would think the maximum is 60. 30 for the 3 assist, 10 for going over the truss, 10 more for a catch, and then 10 for scoring the goal. Am I wrong on this math?

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Shortened Autonomous... Lengthened match... No end game... Interesting...

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what is the password for the documents? I want to open those too.

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Most likely Andy Mark like most years.

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does anyone know if they are creating a Simulation Game this year the past 2 years they have worked with Diamond Bullet Studios to create the Simulation

But then cant you get 10 for the hot goal 5 for passing it over

Once a ball is on the field, you don't get another one until the the ball on the field is scored.

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Wow, 5 points for just driving forward in autonomous. nice!

But what about scoring in the hot goal

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Hot Goal is only in autonomous.

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HOT goal is only for autonomous

So how long do you guys thinknit will take for a 3 assist run

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Week 1.

A toss and catch will be very rare but I suspect it will be pulled off.

This game is going to be a lot of fun to watch.

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So what did the hint have to do with the game?

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The name and the art of the assist

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Four team alliances at Championships. Choose any 3 of the 4 teams to be in your LINEUP for each match

Okay thanks

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Assists

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Pretty simple game. I love it!!! Catching seems extremely hard though, but if it can be done it will be amazing to watch!!

A toss/catch will be uncommon, but bkt incredibly rare. Hitting the chain box on top of the pyramid was difficult last year, but there were a lot more successes than originally predicted.

I think it would be harder to make a goal in the uppee goal posts on the alliance walls.

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Did many teams try to catch the trackballs from overdrive? granted those balls were a lot bigger but I feel like that's the easiest comparison to this game.

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The assist situation is interesting... I'm wondering if a pass still counts as an assist if it were bounced or rolled? Didn't see anything in the manual about that :confused:

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Since the assists are based on posession, It sounds like you can pass it however you want.

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Some teams did.....but not on purpose ;)

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Do you know the weight of the game ball this year?

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Assists are defined as possessing the ball, and possession is defined as, per G12:

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What is the weight of the game ball? I can't find it in the manual.

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About 4 of us have asked now, for those of you quoting the rule book, could you please help us out with a password? :)

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3Zone2Goals1Alliance!

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Much appreciated Joshua! Thank you!

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no problem

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If an alliance were to have 3 assists and then a robot from the opposing alliance were to block the shot, and then the offensive robot picked up the ball and made it does the offensive alliance still get the assist points?

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So basically Overdrive+Breakaway+Ultimate Ascent= Aerial Assist?::rtm::

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So... can you get the points for the truss + catch without getting it into the goal?

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AndyMark is selling the balls: red and blue

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Yes. The scoring table on page 1 shows catch and truss points as being distinct from the goal points, whereas assists are dependent on getting the ball into the goal.

EDIT: Perhaps not. Depends on your interpretation of 3.1.4:

Good QA question.

They do not appear to be available in FIRST Choice at this time.

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Neat game, interesting there's no endgame...

Though, it may just be me, it seems that there is no point to the lower goals. Every team (assumption, though a fairly good one I'd say) is going to at least AIM for getting the high goals. Since there can only be one ball in play (correct me) the alliance wants full assist points, and the top points. I feel like this puts pressure onto teams to build something capable of getting the top goal. I could be missing some element here, but I think this takes away the specialized robot. Every robot has to be able to do everything because who knows what teams are on your alliance.

My $.02. I really hope someone can prove me wrong here. (In a professional manner of course :D )

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If a ball is thrown out of play after collecting assists, when the ball is brought back into play, are the assists reset, or do you just have to score the ball?

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I might have missed it but, can you push the goalie around as a counter defense?

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What happens if a ball is stuck inside a robot during autonomous. Then you cannot score until you get that stuck ball out it seems. Hope FIRST fixes this issue.

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Those minus safe zones and endgames.

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They probably will not fix that because it not an issue. It is your fault if it gets stuck, so design accordingly.

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Here is an "Assist Rule" diagram that might help some people out.

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Perhaps catches will be more common than you think?.... ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JElxKBOT958

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Maybe I'm underestimating how difficult auton will be, but I feel in elimination rounds and at more competitive competitions the max amount of points will be achieved most rounds on both alliances making it a complete wash and losing most of its excitement.

Also, besides the toss and catch over the bar it seems like defending will be extremely difficult. If a robot can shoot into the upper goals they are too wide for any robot to defend. I can see this game turning into which alliance can hand the ball off the fastest with almost no interaction between alliances. Maybe they should call this game Assembly Line because that's what I'm afraid it will look like to a lot of people watching the game.

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What would happen if an alliance completed a number of assists but missed their shot into the upper goal? If the robot were to pick up the dropped ball and shoot it into the upper goal, would they still get the assist points?

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Can you buy just the bladder for the game piece? I know that game pieces are normally expensive but $52 seems a bit ridiculous...

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So to be clear, an assist is only counted if the robots are in different zones?

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Assists only get reset at the end of a cycle (when a ball is scored) so you would still get the assist points.

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yes

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Does anybody know the ball weight?

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Exactly 5lbs without air (air wont add much weight though).

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2.5 pounds.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...36#post1320236

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60pts
Max cycle: 3 assist, truss-catch, high goal (60 points).
Different strategies: 2 assist, truss-catch, low (51 points);
2 assist, high (40 points);
2 assist, low (31 points)

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It seems to me that "assisting" is the act of another robot possessing the ball in another zone; assistance is not defined by passing. That would mean one alliance robot could get the ball from outside (+10 pts.), pass it to a human player, and then the human passes the ball to another robot in another zone (+10 pts.). This means that robots with poor passing ability can use the human players. Human players can pass much quicker than robots (unless you have really good drivers and programs) so this might be a more efficient method of passing.

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I have a question about getting 30 assist points AND the over the truss + catching bonus:

After watching some of the field tour videos about assists, I learned that, in order to get all the assist points, you have to pass between color zones, and to the opposite sides of those color zones (different row and column if you will). And for the Over the truss + catch maneuver my first thought was to have a robot with an arm/elevator that lifts the ball over, and only a few feet away is a catching robot with a large bucket.

So, in order to get 30 assist points AND the over the truss with a catch, do you have to make some huge 20 foot pass across the field from one zone to the next in order to get all the points? or can you do a short pass like I said, then have the other robot drive into the different zone to get the same number of points?

That's a you & your team's problem not a FIRST problem. Find a way to combat this. Be innovative.

Re: Aerial Assist Discussion Thread
 

Do the supershifter gearboxes work with the new 2014 frame?

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I believe doing so would only net you 2 assists. Assists are defined as "when a unique ALLIANCE ROBOT POSSESSES the ALLIANCE’S BALL in a unique ZONE (i.e. red, white, or blue ZONE) during a CYCLE." So passing the ball across the field from one robot to the other and then scoring would only count as 2 unique alliance robots possessing the ball in 2 unique zones, and therefore 2 assists. The "correct" way to get 3 assists with an over the truss catch would be for the furthest back robot (opposite alliance zone) to launch the ball over the truss, the second robot (white zone) catches it and passes it over to the third robot (alliance zone) who then scores it.

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By removing the end game they've reduced the number of different things a robot can do and given us more opportunity to increase the complexity of a single mechanism.

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Anybody know how much the balls weigh?

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Someone mentioned earlier that the balls were 5 lbs exactly without air.

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I can't seem to find where to buy just the bladder, but that may not be the best idea because rubber and cloth will act differently when you try to pick them up. For example, a suction method may work for just the inflated rubber bladder, but it will not work if the cloth cover is on.

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ok thanks. Any guess as to how much with air?

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AndyMark says 2.75 pounds.

http://www.andymark.com/FRC-2014-p/am-2720.htm

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Ah. I just saw someone said 5 lbs earlier, I should have done some research.

Air shouldn't add much.

The volume of the ball is about 4.19 ft^3
According to Wolfram Alpha, 4.19 ft^3 of air weighs .334 lbs.
2.75+.334 = 3.084

The ball with air will weigh approximately 3.084 lbs

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Oh wow! Any verification on this?

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Couple questions. Do assists other than the truss pass/catch count if the goal is not scored? Also if you missed and made a couple more assists and managed to score this time, could you get over 3 assists for a cycle?

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oh and what are the thoughts on the definition of losing possession and what you have to do after losing possession?

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I have a question, if you were in the opposing zone and throw a ball over the truss and made it in your goal, would you also get the truss points?

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1. Assists only count as a bonus to the base point value for scoring a ball. The scoring chart Table 3-2 shows this.

2. In Section 3.1.4 it says "the maximum number of ASSISTS in a single CYCLE is three (3)." So no, since that your alliance is still in the same cycle and still has the assists from earlier in the cycle.

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Truss points, but check the rules on scoring goals - you're limited where you can shoot from.

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The words "lose" and "losing" are in the manual one time each, and have nothing to do with POSSESSION.

That said, if you do lose possession of the ball, you'd better try hard to regain it because you're not going to score any points without it.

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Our team heard that at 4pm we would be able to order the balls from FIRST Choice but when we go on their website, the balls arent there. Anyone have an answer or the same problem?

Thanks and good luck teams!!! :] :]

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So, let's say all 6 robots miss their auto points and the balls all stay on the field. How will the refs keep track of all the balls and assists?

Or will assists not count until all the auto balls have been scored? If this is the case, wouldn't it be better to have some of your alliance partners not even do auto so that you can get assist point in Tele-op quicker?

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ASSISTS count as part of a CYCLE. A CYCLE begins when the the PEDESTAL lights up.

3.1.2

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Has anyone been able to identify anything that causes the number of assists to reset other than scoring a goal? It seems like you can just pass back and forth and never have it reset until you score.

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Follow up to that,
Can the balls that begin in auto be used to score truss points before they score a goal?