Re: Is Defense Finally Viable
 

Those rods would break or become illegal the first time someone shot at them. In order to score, I think our math came out at >20 fps to get to the high goal, so those balls are going to carry some force. That force has to go somewhere, so unless you build your rods out of unobtanium they'll either bend (and become illegal) or simply snap (in which case you'd be in violation of R9: Protrusions from the ROBOT and exposed surfaces on the ROBOT shall not pose hazards to the ARENA elements (including the GAME PIECES) or people.)

In short, it's very difficult to build a legal high goal defense system within a 6 inch cylinder.

Re: Is Defense Finally Viable
 

I'm having a long discussion with another mentor about this very subject. I'm the voice of offense, he is the voice of defense. He wants to sit in the goalie zone. My thought is (with the design I have in mind) that the extensions over 5 feet can be negated by robots who can get into position against the wall. Ramming/pushing strategy after said robot is in position can be negated by positioning with the alliance wall to the front and a side against one of the low goals.

I then came up with this evaluation for illustration's sake.

I went on to say that cycle times could vary plus-minus 20 seconds.

Defense has and always will have value. The question is how much value.

Re: Is Defense Finally Viable
 

I dont feel that defense is viable. Although three-robot assists, in my opinion, will be rare they are something that should have the opportunity to happen. Loosing a robot to defense will hinder the asist possibilities. I also feel that it will be extreme difficult to block the high goals. Ex. A single x-bar being lifted up will not be able to withstand constant hits (The balls are going to be shot with more power). A defensive robot will need a strong, reliable blocking mechanism that can expend upwards of 8 ft. The only defense that will be able to be played reliantly is the 1-point scores, which are not worthy enough to devote time to blocking. Defense wil not be viable in my opinion. :]


I agree with TheCascadeKid - these bars wil break or they will not be brought down and the refs will call the foul

Re: Is Defense Finally Viable
 

Stopping a pass (10 points) sure sounds like a defence to me.

With that said I would still focus on passing & scoring first and when possible defend.

Re: Is Defense Finally Viable
 

If you can keep a robot from scoring in the 1 point goal, you are also negating any bonus points that could be potentially scored. The ball must be scored in order to be awarded any bonus points.

Re: Is Defense Finally Viable
 

If you had a set of nested tubes ranging from just under 6 inches to 4 inches in diameter that telescoped up I think they could be rigid enough to remain within the 6 inch diameter limit even with deflection if the right material is used. Unobtanium would work, but aluminum or pvc would be more than sufficient.

Re: Is Defense Finally Viable
 

I don't think that making defense a top priority is a good strategy for this game. However, if you place the best defensive robot from your alliance in the zone with your goalie zone, after it makes a pass into the white zone, it could then defend the goals.

With this strategy, you can still accomplish 3 assists, as well as defend your goals for a large portion of the game.

Re: Is Defense Finally Viable
 

I'm surprised no one has brought up the idea of defense for the Auto period. There's been a little debate as to at which end of the field is considered an alliance's goalie zone on my team, but I don't see how it wouldn't be at the end in front of your opponent's goals. The rules say:
3.2.2.1 G4
When placed on the FIELD, each ROBOT must be:
A. in compliance with all ROBOT rules (i.e. have passed Inspection),
B. confined to its STARTING CONFIGURATION,
C. entirely within their GOALIE ZONE, or
entirely within the white ZONE and between the TRUSS and their GOALS, and
D. fully supported by the floor.

3.2.2.2 G5
For ROBOTS starting in their GOALIE ZONE the TEAM may decide if the BALL is: staged between the TRUSS and
the ZONE LINE and not contacting an ALLIANCE partner, or removed from the FIELD for the MATCH.

3.2.4.1 G15
During AUTO,
A. a ROBOT starting in the white ZONE may not cross fully beyond the TRUSS
B. a ROBOT starting in its GOALIE ZONE must remain in contact with the carpet in its GOALIE ZONE

So being, you should be able start lined up directly across from your opponents in the goalie zone, not put your ball on the field, then when the match starts extend your 6in cylinder and block your opponent's shot.

Re: Is Defense Finally Viable
 

I think that there needs to be some protocol as to which alliance sets up their robots first. If I saw a defending team setting up in front of my robot to block my auto shot, I would just move my robot such that the defense is no longer in the way. At this point in time I would expect the defensive robot to shadow me, which they have every right to do. However, this cycle of moving and shadowing has to end at some point, and there needs to be a way to decide who gets to make the final move.

Re: Is Defense Finally Viable
 

I think defense is viable. However, it should not be the main goal of a robot. It is pretty easier to design a sturdy net/wall/blocker and stick it on at competition. Obviously this takes some planning, but I think that an all-defense team is pretty limited. Our team is personally designing a robot that can catch and assist, with the ability to attach a defense mechanism if needs be.

Re: Is Defense Finally Viable
 

I would have to agree that 100% defense seems like a very limiting strategy in this year's game. Personally, I believe that a balanced approach seems like a good way to go this year. With the nature of the game, it is inevitable that each team will spend some period of time not actively involved in the offense, and in this time, some sort of defensive mechanism seems appropriate. however, playing entirely defense seems like a very risky strategy, as foregoing the ability to catch and shoot could prove very costly. Ultimately, I believe that balanced robots that can defend when they are not possessing the ball will have tremendous success this season.

Re: Is Defense Finally Viable
 

I'm not sure its legal. hitting the ball on purpose is for first offence a foul and after that a tech. I think bashing robots to stop successful passes and denying catches is the closest we get to D

Re: Is Defense Finally Viable
 

I think good teams will be able to quickly shift from playing offense to defense to interference with opposing defense and back.

I think being purely defensive is a losing strategy this year - there's too much missed opportunity for scoring assists (costs your team 20 points per cycle). And this is just my read, but I think being specifically a goalie specialist is a particularly weak strategy. It doesn't score any points, it doesn't prevent much scoring (if it prevents any), and it doesn't get in the way of any robots in the middle of the field. I think the goalie thing is a distraction.

If a team is trying to be realistic about their capabilities and is considering pure defense because it's easier to build for, I really hope they will consider instead finding a way to herd or carry the ball effectively and score in the low goal. And build a drive train with good traction (not mecanum or omni) and 4 CIM motors. If that's all you do, you'll give all of your alliances the potential to score a lot more assist points (helping with your tiebreakers) and you can harass the other alliance's robots all you want when you're not herding the ball. Edit: even if you can't score in the low goal, being able to push the ball where you want it to go effectively is really useful in this game.

Just look at the math: two robots touching the ball: maximum 10 assist points per cycle. Three robots touching the ball: up to 30 assist points per cycle. I think it's crazy to plan on never touching your alliance's ball.

Re: Is Defense Finally Viable
 

How about a mostly autonomous defense robot. Tracking a 2' red or blue ball may not be a very difficult thing to accomplish. You set up and keep the bot in the goalie zone, and it drives left and right to stay in front of the ball. If it is fast enough and responsive enough, it could keep the pole in front of the ball even while mid-air. With some clever extensions and a sliding post you could even guard the sections above the low goal, even though the zone doesn't extend that far.

Re: Is Defense Finally Viable
 

If robots can't hit an opponent's ball intentionally, what's the purpose of the GOALIE ZONE? According to the rules, a deflected ground pass is no different from a ball deflected in the air. According to the rules, if a ball is in a robot's way, it may bulldoze (single hit) it out of the way in order to get somewhere.