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Definition of A Catch
Based on the two definitions below, a robot gets credit for a catch if they simply impel the ball in a desired direction. So you don't have to "catch" the ball in the way we normally think about it. You just need to push it in a desired direction before it hits the floor and you get full points. Anyone else reading it differently?
The definition of a CATCH: A CATCH occurs when a BALL SCORED over the TRUSS by a ROBOT’S ALLIANCE partner is POSSESSED by that ROBOT before contacting the carpet or HUMAN PLAYER. An ALLIANCE receives CATCH points only if the CATCH is directly preceded by a TRUSS SCORE. The definition of POSSESS: POSSESS: (for a ROBOT) to carry (move while supporting BALLS in or on the ROBOT), herd (repeated pushing or bumping), launch (impel BALLS to a desired location or direction), or trap (overt isolation or holding one or more BALLS against a FIELD element or ROBOT in an attempt to shield them) a BALL. |
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Pushing it would be considered either a herd or a launch, but would most likely not count as a catch. For it to be a herd, you'd have to hit it more than once before it hit the ground, and for it to be a launch, you'd have to hit a desired location. Simply bumping it with your robot means you have little control over its destination, so it would not be launching it in a "desired" direction.
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Note that humans are going to be scoring this. If it looks like the ball just randomly bounced off your robot, you're probably not going to get those points. I'm thinking it's going to have to be fairly apparent that you've changed the ball's velocity in a controlled and purposeful manner.
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I feel sorry for the refs for all the complaints they are going to get about this. |
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Can you have more than one catch per cycle at all so for say does it have to be over the Truss to count as a Catch???:confused:
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According to one of the blue boxes...you cannot have a catch without a truss score on the same throw. And according to one of the early paragraphs, truss points are only awarded once per cycle. |
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In regards to the definition of a catch. A catch is defined as such: Quote:
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The ramp idea seems invalid due to the deflection specifications.
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This is from the game manual 3.1.4 "points are rewarded once per cycle... for each robot catch"
Why is the each used if there is only one? |
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a system like some of the teams used in breakaway to directed balls from the input ramp into the goals would definitely count as herding a ball in a desired direction.
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I would suggest that this discussion needs to include the Blue Box quote from G12:
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The description of what's not a Possession (quoted above) seem to make it clear that bouncing the ball off something like a ramp wouldn't count as a Catch.
Maybe it would help if we consider every-day English definitions of Launch versus Deflect. Launching (or propelling) would add momentum to the ball (the ball starts stationary relative to the robot, then exits with a non-zero velocity). Deflecting (or bumping) merely changes the direction of momentum. |
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How about if a robot launched the ball over the truss, then caught and gave it to their teammate all before the ball touches the ground. Would this be considered a successful catch since the ball is in the possession of a second robot before the ball touches the ground.
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But I agree this is definitely a grey area and a question for Q and A |
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Here's how I interpreted the rulings here:
It is only possible to score one truss score per cycle, and since you have to get a truss score immediately before a catch, you can only catch once per cycle. As I understand it, you simply must throw the ball over the truss and have an alliance member's robot catch it. Catching would probably entail having a part specifically designed to gain control of the ball, and I highly doubt that judges will consider bouncing a ball off of a plate to be "catching" (and all of their calls cannot be contested). I do feel confident in my understanding, because our team spends the first four hours of the first day reading completely through the rules, then asking each other for their interpretations on vague rules. I would recommend every team at least make all their members read the rules once, so that they can have some ideas of restrictions they have on their robot and strategy. |
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Simplified "once per cycle" for catch points is to prevent an alliance playing lacrosse over the truss.
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A CATCH occurs when a BALL SCORED over the TRUSS by a ROBOT’S ALLIANCE partner is POSSESSED by that ROBOT before contacting the carpet or HUMAN PLAYER. Possessing is also very clearly defined. POSSESS: (for a ROBOT) to carry (move while supporting BALLS in or on the ROBOT), herd (repeated pushing or bumping), launch (impel BALLS to a desired location or direction), or trap (overt isolation or holding one or more BALLS against a FIELD element or ROBOT in an attempt to shield them) a BALL. I don't doubt that a QA will clarify these things and you may end up being right and interpreted it the way that had meant. However as written, I do not think that is the case. |
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Nope. Doesnt seem like deflecting a ball at a desired location is possesion to me. |
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What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Do you want to count your own ball falling on your robot and bouncing off in the direction of your ramp as a possession? Then you also have to accept that if one of the opponent's balls happens to fall on your robot, and it bounces off in the direction of your ramp, that you have possessed their ball and are guilty of a technical foul. |
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deflecting = being hit by a propelled BALL that bounces or rolls off the ROBOT launch = impel BALLS to a desired location or direction Here are a few examples (note that "hit" in this context denotes some sort of active interaction and "bounce" denotes inactive interaction): 1. A ball scored over the truss comes out of the air to my robot which proceeds to hit the moving ball right into the low goal. 2. A ball scored over the truss comes out of the air to my robot which proceeds to hit the moving ball into a high goal (much larger opening). Although the specific location is not consistent, it still consistently hits somewhere in the high goal. 3. A ball scored over the truss comes out of the air to my robot which proceeds to hit the ball to the ground next to a teammate robot a few feet away. 4. A ball scored over the truss comes out of the air to my robot which proceeds to hit the ball forward relative to the robot. Although there is no specific "location" that the ball goes, the "direction" is consistently forward. 5. A ball scored over the truss comes out of the air to my robot and then bounces on the top of my robot into the high goal. 6. A ball scored over the truss comes out of the air to my robot and then bounces (possibly with the help of an angled top) off the top of my robot to the ground directly in front of an alliance partner. 7. A ball scored over the truss comes out of the air to my robot and then bounces off of my robot in an arbitrary direction. It should hopefully be pretty clear to everyone that (1) is a launch and that (7) is a deflection. But the question still remains: where is the line drawn between them? |
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How can a bounce possibly be a catch?
The definition of Catch (according to section 3.1.4 of the Game Manual) includes Possession. Possession is defined in 3.2.3.4, and includes Launching but not Bouncing. Launching is further defined in that section to be impelling (which is the same as propelling). There is a clear distinction between Launching (impelling) and Bouncing: Launching adds kinetic energy to the ball, Bouncing merely redirects it. Note that if a bounced balls goes in a desired direction, whether by luck or design), that does not make it a Possession. A single bounce off a robot is not a catch. If you disagree, please quote a rule to justify your position. |
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Driving to hit the ball may be interpreted as Herding (especially if the robot bumps the ball more than once), and that would qualify as Possession. But the examples given above (particularly the later ones) are the ball hitting a stationary robot, not driving forward.
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Pinning or Trapping the ball along the back wall is in my opinion a very easy catch. Even if the ball is not caught this clearly meets the possession rules.
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The red part seems like a self-contradiction. But anyway... If you can pin/trap the ball against the wall, without the ball touching the floor or a human player at any time between the throw and the pin/trap, then I believe it would count as a Catch (for points). Quote:
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We agree, I compare it to a soccer player catching a ball, which is controlling it in an intended direction, before it hits the floor.
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Its all subjective anyways....
Probably safest to say "If it wouldnt count in the NFL it won't count here" |
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