Re: The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game
 

Very interesting thread, with great, thought out, points from both parties. i am personally thinking that they will add something new with the human players, as they aren't doing much during the game right now. or perhaps i'm not "appreciating the depth of the game"

Re: The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game
 

Or you could just hedge your bet and work anyway.

Re: The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game
 

I'll keep that in mind, Kevin.

Sarcasm aside, I really don't want to be either a conspiracy nut, or an advocate for a pet theory. We're all just making our best guesses, on every aspect of the game, every year, from pre-season hints clear up to week 1 of competition. We do our best, and sometimes what we predict turns out to be correct; other times, with hindsight, we see that we missed the mark. I do think that there are plenty of reasons to think that something might be up. There are also plenty of reasons to think that it's all just our overactive imaginations.

As things develop, I will continue to plan and work with my team, and we will strategize with the information and expertise we have, and we will absorb new information as it presents itself.

“If the Day of Judgment erupts while you are planting a new tree, carry on and plant it.”, the Prophet said.

Re: The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game
 

I'm having a really hard time with the way that Aerial Assist seems like such a step backward from the leaps and bounds made toward simplicity of explaining the game to casual observers in a handful of seconds in 2012 and 2013.

2011: Convoluted scoring system with multipliers and logo bonuses that is hard to explain

2012: Its robot basketball, and they get points for balancing the bridge at the end of the game, more robots, more points.

2013: Throw frisbees into goals for points, hang from pyramid for more points at the end. Climb higher, get more points.

2014: Throw balls into goals, but you get more points along a non-linear scale for more robots touching it, plus theres this truss you can throw it over, and you get more points for catching it out of the air.

ADDITIONALLY

Aerial Assist is going to have difficulty being scored consistently. The only way to score Aerial Assist is to have refs being VERY careful to watch who touches what balls where, how they caught them out of the air, and what goals they've been fired through.

In the last several years, FIRST has being trying really hard to make games that can be scored automatically by means of sensors on the field, because realtime scoring on the videoboard near the field is important to helping casual observers follow the action.

I'm just seeing this as a big step backwards from the "New FIRST" we've seen in 2012 and 2013.

Re: The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game
 

This is probably the biggest thing that gives me hope for this theory. With all the awesome vex versa gear and the multiple Ri3D teams I am kinda... disappointed.

There isn't a whole lot of incentive anymore to design your own system when something (better) is readily available and good to go. Even if a team came up with a design themselves the Ri3D teams are holding a precedent that is hard to ignore and hard not to follow (or at least use as a starting point).

Either way I'm excited to see how Aerial Assist plays out.

Re: The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game
 

I'd argue the system was not convoluted. (3 points, 2 points, or 1 point depending on height, double points of a tube for being over a yellow tube, double points for a complete row.)

There are 5 refs and only at most 2 balls to keep track of. It's not as hard as it sounds.

Re: The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game
 

Did you ever try to explain that scoring system (and why teams always went for the high pegs first), plus the minibot race, to a casual observer in 10 seconds or less?
I'm not saying they can't do it, but having experienced every FIRST game since 2003 first hand (except 2005), games heavily dependent on the refs for scoring tend to have a lot of issues related to human error.

Re: The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game
 

I'd personally highly doubt any major changes to occur. There was an explosion on CD and throughout FIRST last year when they changed the "blizzard of frisbees" at the last thirty seconds. Now imagine if they changed something that didn't just slightly affect some teams in a negative way (ground pickup robots were rightfully frustrated), but something that changed what everyone had been planning all throughout build season.

Re: The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game
 

I don't think this game is too tough to describe to a "casual" observer.

Sure, it's not a short sentence like 2012 and 2013, but I think it's clear enough to get the general idea across.

Re: The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game
 

This is completely and utterly false. I suggest you go look at some match videos from 2008, where the balls were quite a bit bigger than these.

Re: The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game
 

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but we just started watching the kickoff video again.

It starts with:
"They thought X, they got Y" themes with previous inventions.

Game hint:
"Sorry, we made a mistake. These numbers give the same result but look different and are formatted differently"

Maybe, a completely different challenge, solvable by the same robot.

Food for thought.

Re: The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game
 

Can someone explain to me the word AERIAL in the game name please? Yeah you throw a ball, but game pieces have been 8' in the air for years now.

Re: The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game
 

It starts with 'A' and they wanted to be alliterative, I guess.

Re: The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game
 

I also disagree with this statement. There are a huge number of ways to make a robot that can extend up to 20" outside it's perimeter pick up, pass, catch, hold, and shoot a relatively small and light ball like the one we have. Video of past games (especially 2008, as was previously mentioned) will be extremely enlightening, and hopefully motivating.

Re: The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game
 

Or there's a climbing based end-game using the seemingly over-built truss that they plan to release after Ri3D's have done their thing but early enough in build to not screw people up too bad.

FIRST knew (at least as early as a few weeks ago) that there were going to be first 1, then 3, then 5, then 6 Ri3Ds this year. They saw the effect just one had in 2013. It significantly raised the floor of the competition, but it caused a fair bit of limiting to the diversity of designs. Having 6 Ri3Ds in 2014, we're going to have 6 good examples, made by teams of people with several world championships and countless regional wins under their collective belts. Those 6 robots will likely show us most of the major design themes 2014 robots will have. I can see how the GDC would see that as a negative thing, and try to do something about it.

Doing something like a surprise game element released AFTER the Ri3Ds are done would be a way to restore some of that unique design challenge without diminishing the beneficial effects that the Ri3Ds have.