YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Mostly, this thread is so we can look back in eight weeks and realize how terribly wrong we were. Qualifying round is probably the most useful, but elimination scores are interesting to try and peg as well.

If you can post a reasoning that's awesome, but we'll take just a number as well.

Here's the reference to the last several year's of this thread, including how we've done..

Happy HURDL...TRUSSing!

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Woo, first guess.

Well, if every robot on an alliance can drive in auto (15), say one robot can actually do anything otherwise, three cycles, shoots in high goal, say 30, then round up a bit.

50 pts

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I predict an average match score of 60.

As you said, I'm probably horribly wrong... nothing to go on, first day, no experience with the game yet. It's fun though!

My reasoning makes the assumption that 1/3 of teams will go for pure defense like I would like them to. This would result in less points being scored overall, yet more exciting matches.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Week 1 prediction for average score per alliance in quals - 20, elims - 40 to 50

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Week 1 I'm going to guess the average will be around 15-20 points with eliminations averaging around 40. I think there will be plenty of week 1 matches that have alliances with over 100 though.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Qualifications: 25
Eliminations: 80

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I'm guessing much higher than that. Based on the logic that this year a technical foul is worth 50 points compared to 20, I think the GDC is assuming about a 2.5 times the average score of last year. I think that is a safe assumption. If all 3 robots simply drive forward 5 feet in autonomous that is already 15 points. If any of those robots is good enough to make a shot that would be another 15. My guess is 70 points for week 1 quals, 150 for elims. That would be about a 3 cycle match in elims (30ish auto) + 3 cycles*(40ish)

I still haven't really analyzed the game in depth yet. My guess will probably change in the coming days.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

55! I think the added ones will average things out to a strange not so nice number, so I'm gonna round off.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I'll go significantly higher, not counting penalties. I predict 30 in autonomous, plus 80 in tele, for a pre-penalty score of 110 in seeding rounds. That's because even one well-designed and well-driven bot can score the majority of those points solo with four trips in 140 seconds.

Elimination rounds could go to the full 75 in auto occasionally, and to 200+ in tele. I think week one top score will be over 350 points.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

My predictions for week 1:

Qualification Match Winning Scores Average: 45 (in no small part due to fouls)
Qualification Match Losing Scores Average: 25

Elimination Match Winning Scores Average: 90 (about half auto, half tele)
Elimination Match Losing Scores Average: 60

For the most part I think defense will *really* slow alliances down... If you can make life really difficult for the robot that has the ball, the whole alliance's progress is essentially stopped.

That said, I think there will be some alliances in Week 1 that are quite good (3 "mobilities" in auto, 2 or 3 high balls in auto, and either 4+ cycles of 20 points or 3+ cycles of 30 points)... I expect that 150 will be broken week 1.

*I'm* really curious to see how my predictions turn out!

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

They may be a little low but I was just guessing based off what I've seen in the past. Lots of very small point games and even some 0-0 matches. Those will drop the average quite a bit.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Michigan eliminations will see 150 easily.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Qualifications will be an average of 75 pts. each, and elims will be 100 pts.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

For Quals, I'd expect 2/3 robots to drive forward in auton, and not much else. Then, assuming a great deal of time is spent simply scoring the missed autonomous shots/dumps, I'd expect 1 in the high goal, 3 in the low goal, with two assists on the one cycled ball, no truss passes, for a total score of 43 on average.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

My guess for a week 2 in Michigan

A good single team will get:
25 points in Auto
5 cycles with no passes, just a throw over the truss to yourself and score in the 10 point goal. 5*20

That alone gives a team 125 points.

Let me know what I'm missing there though. And 5 cycles is a lot, but by yourself with no objects in the field. Definitely doable.

I am guessing that with passing / assists / possession bonus, the truss and catch the absolute max score could be 435 points for an alliance. That is assuming 6 cycles across the field. Is that a ludicrous score or can it happen? Let me know what you think, but remember if it can be done it will be done....

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

190-80

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

good question,

so assume 2/3 of robots drive forward in auton: 10 pts
next, assume 1/6 of all robots can proficiently score high goal and of those, a quarter can get the hot goal: ~8 pts
then 5/6 can make the low goal: ~10 pts

as for teleop:
one cycle is about 5 sec for ball reset (getting ball from pedestal) plus 10 seconds to score and an extra 5 seconds for the 1/6 that will attempt the truss: that's 16 seconds and 2:20/0:16 is (calculating in fumbles) ~7 cycles per match of which, say, 1/2 are successful high goals and 1/4 are low, so that's ~37 pts for shooting alone.

Assists:
as above, assume 2/3 of shots make it into a goal
1/6 will make the throw over the truss, and 1/12 can catch it. no one does single assists and say 2/3 are doubles while 1/3 are triples
that would be... about 24 pts

so my final answer is about 90 pts
i'm probably way off though

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

what happened to the other 1/4 of the cycles?

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

30 Points. Average alliances will get 15 points for driving forward in autonomous and struggle to score more than 1 point goals after that. Good alliances could put up monstrous scores but bad ones could easily get only 10 which will bring the average to around 30.

Elimination average could be much higher. If the typical alliance has just one reliable high goal scorer with two decent partners who can pass the ball I can see an average of 95 points with two cycles per match.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I can't give a number, but I suspect significantly higher seeding scores. Above 100 for sure, at least in MAR (districts included)

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

those are failed goal attempts:
a failed attempt can be picked up but since it would take such a long time to physically pick it up again, you lost time to do a 7th (last) cycle

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Wow these seem low to me. Three robots that can not even acquire or shoot should be able to do 2-3 cycles.

Average Qual score: 100

Average elimination score: 250

At least one match on Einstein or finals on one of the divisions will exceed 500 points.

There will also not be a huge degree of competition difference between World champs and IRI as there have been in some past games.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

50 for quals, 110 for elims. I see there being a huge disparity between random alliances and chosen ones.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I am thinking scores are going to be pretty high by mid season.

The low goal is pretty simple.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aynl11FRHHk

Nearly every alliance should get >=15 points in auton, since one driving robot can push a line of two other robots into their colored zone. No one ever said all three robots had to drive themselves into the zone.

If the referees are some what generous when giving out possessions alliances should be able to get at least one 3 assist cycle per match and finish it in the low goal for 31 points.

45-50 points seems relatively easy to me.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I've already explained elsewhere why I think an elite team will be able to score about 150 pts by themselves, using their two alliance partners for defence.

In an average match:

I expect 90%+ of teams will be getting the 5 pt mobility bonus. 4.5 pts per team = 13.5 pts.
I expect 70% of teams will attempt high goal autons, and in wk 1, only about 40% of those attempts will be successful. = 15 * 0.7 * 0.4 = 4.2 pts per team, * 3 = 12.6 pts
I expect 30% of teams will attempt low goal autons, and in wk 1, only about 40% of those attempts will be successful. = 6 * 0.3 * 0.4 = 0.7 pts per team * 3 = 2.1 pts
HOT goals will be about 50% of the scored goals (which had 40% accuracy). 5 * 0.4 * 0.5 = 1 pt * 3 = 3pts.

At the end of auto, the average week 1 alliance will have 31.2 pts.

For the remainder of the match, the first 20s or so will be wasted clearing the field of the missed auto shots, probably 80% into the low goals. 3 balls * 60% of them missed = 1.8 balls. 80% of the time worth 1 point, 20% of the time worth 10 pts. (0.8 * 1)+(0.2 * 10) = 2.8 pts per ball * 1.8 balls = ~5 pts for this step.

Then a typical alliance will score maybe 3 cycles in the remaining 2 minutes of match.

Of those 3 cycles:

10% will be 3 assist cycles, 40% will be 2 assist cycles, 50% will be 1 assist cycles.
30% of cycles will have a truss toss.
2% of cycles will have a catch.
60% will eventually be scored in the low goal. 30% will eventually be scored high, and 10% will not score.

Assist Points (0.1 * 30)+(0.4 * 10)= 7 pts
Truss Points (0.3 * 10) = 3 pts
Catch Points (0.02 * 10) = 0.2 pts
Goal Points (0.6 * 1)+(0.3*10) = 3.6 pts
Cycle worth 13.8 pts * 90% of the time, 0 pts the remaining 10% = 12.42 pts /cycle * 3 cycles /match = 37.26 pts.

The average week 1 alliance will score 73.5 pts in a match.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Oh wow, I completely neglected auton points.

With auton, in week 1 -

average qual - 35
average elim - 65 to 70

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I think the average score in the LOWEST of the depths of the seeding matches will be 15 form the given points. The highest score, probably from a qualification team, will somewhere around 90. Getting 30+ points per cycle isn't an impossibility, and there are going to be teams of perfect autonomous scoring.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I don't understand why so many of you are predicting such crazy low scores. There is 15 pts per alliance available in auto literally for turning your drive motors on for a second or two. No reason ANY robot shouldn't be able to get those.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Yep. Check out your match schedule and make sure every single one of your partners can do this. If they can't, help them. That won't take long at all.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Typical optimistic overshoot.

35 points. Many robots wont even move on Friday.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I think average scores for week 1 quals will be in the 80-100 point range, elims getting closer to the 150 point range.

everyones gonna get 15 points in auto, and so long as one robot brings the ball for the other 2 to push around for a second (in their own zones of course, making for 31 point low goals) it shouldn't be hard to get 2-3 cycles in. Possession just requires multiple contacts with the ball, so passing is very easy.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I think 50 points for elims is pretty conservative. That's like 1-2 goals per match. For qualifiers, maybe 50-60 points, for elims, I'm thinking 120+.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

This is a huge concern on my part. I think that a box on wheels with a decent amount of torque could really put a wrench in some alliances' plans.

Personally, I'm thinking about 50 points a match for quals, 75-100 for elemination.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I might be being too optimistic here but I think a well constructed alliance can score about 290. (5 cycles of 50 points + ~40 points from autonomous) I would guess an average score for eliminations will be 175. (4 cycles of 40 + 15 from auto) However, in qualifications when you have to work with random partners I think the average score will go down to 95.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Normally, in AUTO, I predict that the average robot scores 0. This is to safeguard myself from overestimating (if I were to put a real number on AUTO, I would say 10, but certainly not anything above 15 as some are predicting). I will stick to that trend here. Just look to 2008 to see that something as simple as driving forward should not be considered a "gimme". Also, people seem to forget that some of your robots might be playing as a goalie on the other side, meaning that they will not get those 5 movement points.

After AUTO, teams will spend on average the first 30 seconds scoring the balls that they missed in AUTO, most of these in the low goal. This means that the average alliance still has 0 points*. After that, alliances will have 2 cycles, 1 30 point cycle and 1 20 point cycle, for a total qualification average of 50 points.

*For all intents and purposes, the low goal is worth 0 points.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I will predict that the average alliance will score 35 in prelims and then 60 in finals. I would guess higher, but the scores always seem to be lower than someone would typically exspect. Also defence will probably prevent a high scoring game. (I'll add 10 points to prelims and 30 to finals if there is an endgame, even without knowing it ;) )

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I think he's assuming the cycle doesn't get finished.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

In Michigan? Averaging easily over 50 points, but will vary wildly per match based on FMS RNG in quals. Elims will see consistent 150+ by the top 4 alliances and 100+ by the lower 4 alliances.

On second thought there are over 90 new teams in michigan this year. Anywhere from 35-50 points still is reasonable, but slightly less than my initial estimate.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

One of the things I like most about this game is that it's going to have super low scores in qualification, but in elimination I think we'll see some (comparatively) ridiculously high scores.

My initial impulse is in qualifications:
All robots drive forward (15 points)
One robot is able to throw the ball over the truss (10 points per cycle)
One robot is able to herd the ball into a goal (1 point)
If these are distinct robots, another 10 points for assists

That would equate to (optimistically) 21 points per cycle.

Based on that, I'd say 3-4 cycles (63-84 points).

Add on the auto modes, and we have 78-99 points per qualification match.

Multiply that by 50%, and average match scores are 35-50 points in qualification.

That being said, I think this year more than any others will have the potential to surprise everybody with high scoring average matches.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I'm confused, are you saying that some people will start their bots on the opposing alliance's goalie zone? Because you cannot have your robot pass the truss until tele-op, as per G15.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

You are correct in your understanding of robots that begin in the white ZONE, but robots may also begin in the GOALIE ZONE. These robots would be ineligible for the movement points.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Wk1 winning scores:
Seeding average: 25 points
Elim average: 65 points

Einstein winner: 200+ points

and for my bold prediction:
1 match at IRI will exceed 450 points

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I realized that when the new Team Update was released, my bad.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Qual: 60
Elim: 90

I feel like qualification scores will be low/mid, as stated above, but as the matches go on and people can see and experience the game, the scores will get higher (but probably not by too much more.)

I also feel that, by eliminations, the scores will reach a peak of anywhere from 90 - 120 because the top eight teams will have a choice of their alliance partners, so they could - essentially - formulate the 'dream team.' And if they do have the 'dream team', then the points may be even higher.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

How do you figure? I think it's safe to say that the 5 points for driving forward are a given, but you're assuming that everyone has a high goal shooter. After a few days of browsing Chief Delphi, I'd say that this is not the case.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I'm saying averaging 104 for Quals.

If two of the robots are only able to move a little, the good bot places the ball in front of then in two different zones and they push it a foot. The best robot scores a low goal and you've got 41 points. Likely two of them can push low goals in the Auto. There's 22 more. Minimum score for a round with 3 working but pathetic robots is 63.

300 Average for Elims.

Let's call the high score for the year about 420.

Neal

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Average 25 in quals.

110 in elims.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Wow. I'm seeing a lot of low scores for most people's estimations. I may be a rookie this year, but unless I am vastly underestimating the game's difficulty at competition, then I can see the low end of the scores for games mostly breaking 100. High scores around 300.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

about 1/4 of robots on the field won't move or will move with very little control for the better half of Friday. Those that can move will have their fair share of mechanical + comm issues.

These estimates are blowing my mind. This is week 1 we are talking about.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Well, sure. By the end of week one I see relatively low scores by any robots that are operating. But I prefer to rather look ahead at the end of the six weeks, perhaps straying from the actual topic of this post.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I can not wait till our week 0 event where all of these low estimates will get crushed!

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I have learned that no matter how easy a score like this to obtain is, the minimum for scoring is ALWAYS 0.

I think this may be a year where the scores at champs are LOWER than regional high scores. I think once teams learn to efficiently progress the ball, defense will take over, and both alliances will be subject to slower cycles. The regional level will still be full of inferior(strength wise) drive trains and inexperienced drive teams.

Week 1:
Quals: average: 41
Elims: average: 80
High: 160

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

200 in quals and 350 in elims.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I think the scoring numbers will definitely be a lot higher this year than last year. As for week one I'd imagine the numbers won't reach above 200 points

Maybe 70-100 points qualifiers

120-150 points eliminations

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

29 Qualifying

113 Eliminations

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I think a lot of these numbers are quite low, I would say that quals will be in the 70-80 range and elims will bejust higher, say...110? Keeping in mind that in elims we can assume a larger amount of points coming from autonomous.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

With realistic timing and no room for surprises, 300 pts is a pretty high score. I dont expect to see these kind of scores very often.

However, I think this year's game is easier to build around than previous years, so I don't think there will be as many robots who aren't quite finished. Now that the game heavily relies on teammates, it all comes down to the driver skill, in my opinion.

If 300 were an almost perfect score, then I'd predict that we will see scores of 100 and highest 200 in the Elims. 70 would be a decent average for the qual matches.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

As an extension to my previous post, lets calculate what I think the best alliances will be capable of.

In an average match:

I expect 100% of teams will be getting the 5 pt mobility bonus. 5 pts per team = 15 pts.
I expect 100% of teams will attempt high goal autons, and about 80% of those attempts will be successful. = 15 * 0.8 = 12 pts per team, * 3 = 36 pts
I expect 0% of teams will attempt low goal autons, 0 pts per team * 3 = 0 pts
HOT goals will be about 50% of the scored goals (which had 80% accuracy). 5 * 0.8 * 0.5 = 2 pt * 3 = 6pts.

At the end of auto, the average match of the 'best' alliance will have 57 pts.

For the remainder of the match, the first 10s or so will be wasted clearing the field of the missed auto shots, probably 80% into the high goals. 3 balls * 20% of them missed = 0.6 balls. 80% of the time worth 10 pts, 20% of the time worth 1 point. (0.8 * 10)+(0.2 * 1) = 8.2 pts per ball * 0.6 balls = ~5 pts for this step.

Then a 'best' alliance will score maybe 5 cycles in the remaining 2 minutes 10 seconds of match.

Of those 5 cycles:

100% will be 3 assist cycles, 0% will be 2 assist cycles, 0% will be 1 assist cycles.
100% of cycles will have a truss toss.
50% of cycles will have a catch.
0% will eventually be scored in the low goal. 90% will eventually be scored high, and 10% will not score.

Assist Points 30 pts
Truss Points 10 pts
Catch Points (0.5 * 10) = 5 pts
Goal Points (0.9*10) = 9 pts
Cycle worth 54 pts * 90% of the time, 0 pts the remaining 10% = 48.6 pts /cycle * 5 cycles /match = 243 pts.

The 'best' alliance will score 305 pts in an average match.

Max score I think is even potentially possible? 75pt auto, 7x perfect 60 point 3 assist cycles with truss/catch = 495 pts. A perfect auto, leaves you with 2:20 to play. 7 cycles is 20 seconds/cycle.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Goin' with 75 for quals, 110 for elims

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I expect early qualification rounds will be around 50, but finals scores will be closer to 200!

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

If an alliance partner can set the ball on top of (even a non moving) robot and then pick it up, an assist is awarded. If a second alliance robot can get into a second zone, (same scenario as the first) another assist is awarded. Am I misunderstanding?

Neal

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

qual: 50-100
taking in to account that 1 ball scored in hot goal is 20 pts and 1 ball scored in not hot goal will is 15 and about 75% of the robots will be shooting in high goal auto and almost all robots will get mobility points at the end of auto the score will be around 30-40 points and the lack of end game gives you longer teleop = more time to score more times so probably about 30 pts - 50 pts in teleop

elim: 100-200+
better robots better team work more time to talk with alliance therefore ore points

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Which definition of "Assist" in the rule book did the non-moving robot meet?

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I don't think it meets any. A non moving robot cannot possess a ball and therefore cannot get an assist. If they were moving it would be carrying.

The following criteria define POSSESSION :
A) “carrying” (moving while supporting BALLS in or on the ROBOT),
B) “herding” (repeated pushing or bumping),
C) “launching” (impelling BALLS to a desired location or direction), and
D) “trapping” (overt isolation or holding one or more BALLS against a FIELD element or ROBOT in an attempt to shield them).
Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL per instance.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

ASSISTS are earned when a unique ALLIANCE ROBOT POSSESSES the ALLIANCE’S BALL in a unique ZONE

Point 2 - If an opponents ball falls into a non moving robot, the robot has possessed the ball, whether it meant to or not.

Neal

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Can you please explain which of the 4 definitions of possessing that robot has done? A, B, C, or D? (see the post above yours for the different definitions of possession)

-Sorry I don't mean to derail this thread it just seems like this may be incorrect

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

A BALL that becomes unintentionally lodged on a ROBOT will be considered
POSSESSED by the ROBOT. Pretty obviously if it was intentional, it is then possession. So, I am saying that if the ball is not in the act of rolling off, then it is lodged.

Neal

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I have made a new thread for the subject of whether or not an immobile ROBOT may POSSESS a BALL. Thus we can keep the intent of this thread to be predicting the scores.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...21#post1325221

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Now that many teams have created systems that might go on their robot, are there new predictions out there for average and high scores?

I am seeing a lot of good shooters and many plans for multiple ball auto modes which may equal better scores...?

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Doesn't change my predictions any. Multi-game piece autos have been around for years, and are so infrequent that they don't really impact the average. Mostly because they by definition must take a game piece from an alliance mate.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I think this is the easiest year in terms of autonomous. A simple dead-reckoning drive forwards will basically guarantee 5 points to start.
While teams may not have shooters capable of scoring in the top goal, those who do should also have little trouble hitting the massive openings (left/right wise), relying on a 50/50 chance of getting the hot goal bonus. Teams can get 10-15 points with no sensors or semi-intelligent coding at all (Release shooter, drive forward 3 seconds).

I think 3 ball autonomouses (autonomi?) will not be typically necessary. If you have a robot in the GOALIE zone or a brick-bot teammate, then it will be very advantageous to have a 2 ball, but I think it will be pretty unlikely to need 3 ball capability, unless you end up unlucky with 2 brick-bots on your alliance in quali's.

I predict that most teams will be capable of at least 1 useful thing offense-wise, or they will be an extremely specialized defense bot. I predict there will not be many robots with no capabilities other than driving/herding.


I predict the average score being 50-30 (for the winners) in the qualis and boost that to 80-60 for elims. I am going source my thought process back to 2010.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

(3.1.4) Partial only..."ASSISTS are earned when a unique ALLIANCE ROBOT POSSESSES the ALLIANCE’S BALL in a unique ZONE (i.e. red, white, or blue ZONE) during a CYCLE. A ROBOT is considered in a ZONE if it is in contact with the carpet in a ZONE or the tape marking the ZONE, but not in contact with carpet or tape for another ZONE. Because there are up to three (3) ALLIANCE ROBOTS and three (3) ZONES, the maximum number of ASSISTS in a single CYCLE is three (3). Examples of the number of ASSISTS credited to an ALLIANCE are shown in Figure 3-4 (X = POSSESSION, yellow highlight = credited ASSIST, ROBOT IDs are across the top, ZONES are depicted by color)......."


__________________________Is the robot (Red #2), on the field, is it on, and did it possess the ball in a unique zone? Was an Assist awarded in the example he gave and below.....Yes.

"Possession" of the ball by a unique robot in a zone. (IE: Red Alliance...."Red Robot #2 is the non-moving bot located in the White Zone" (still there from the Auto period perchance)...Red Robot #1 takes possession of the ball in the Blue Zone inbounded/delivered from Red Human Player (running ball from Red Lighted Cylinder behind the Blue Alliance Station to the Blue Zone)...1 Assist awarded (0 points), Red Robot takes ball to Red Robot #2 and hands off possession of the ball, 2 Assists awarded (10 Points), Red Robot #1 takes posession back of ball from Red Robot#2, and heads over and shoots over the truss toward the Red Scoring Zone (10 Points), and then chases down the ball again, hands off or passes the ball off to Red Robot #3 in the Red scoring zone, who actually takes possession (who can or cannot shoot, but can pass back...Assist #3 is now earned (Red Alliance has 30 Total Points now scored on Assists in the cycle + the Truss points of 10=40 total). Red Robot #1 shoots and makes high goal (10 more points). 2 working mobile robots / 3 present / & only 1 that has decent mobility and can accomplish many game actions elements, can shoot high and hot, and can pass and pick up without fail and at will (there will be many of those from what I have seen so far);Total Red 1 cycle score: 50 points scored!

A decent robot who can do those things w/ even just minor alliance partner help and working at it a bit will score 200~250 or more points in a match and adding in 25~75 moblie/high/hot Auto points easy).

(Just a single robot running up and down the field shooting truss and high goal cycles repeatedly won't do it at only 20 Points max score a cycle). If that is your plan, it isn't playing as designed, so you will actually be rewarded very little scoring points.

The game is Aerial ASSIST! It was designed for teamwork from teams it appears. Let's all work together. This game awards it. If there are that many that cannot gain the mobility points the first week, than WE IN FIRST, and on Veteran FIRST FRC TEAMS...We failed at our jobs....Now....or On Thursday, help those other teams get moving and playing well before Friday!

The only guess I will make at this point....Most here are guessing way too low here. 2:30 is a long time (though the 10 second Auto period really isn't).

Lots of points to be had here (75 Max possible in Auto per Alliance=Mobility 15 /High Goal 45/Hot Goal 15/(Low Goal 6 ea for 18 possible minimum/33 max. if hot too, and balls can be pushed into those goals BTW, no Pick Up necessary to score, just mobility)....And there will be plenty of 2 shot autos attempted early and many made, maybe even a 3 attempted. That 2nd and or 3rd shot will still be good for ten each in teleop after first 10 second auto clock has expired (as I read it), while others on your alliance head up field. (That auto extra 5 points is a bonus score remember). Lots of time for a high/hot shot + mobility points. That high goal is actually a huge target.

A huge open field for driving / passing, w/ no real clutter around except robots and 4 corner goals, and only 4 "semi-safe zones" (that are actually unqualified zones as completely indefensible by a goalie...shooting spots -2 on each end, that are opponent loading zones too...Well, they were....I'm actually waiting for the GDC to hang up "no parking signs" eventually). Lol.

Each Alliance Cycle; Max 60 Points Possible Per Alliance=3 Assists 30, high goal 10, Truss 10, Truss Catch 10 (Safely 3~7 cycles in 2:20). Then add in all the penalty points possibilities, w/ 3 human players and HP Zones, bots attempting >50 ft. shooting of 2' big bouncing balls, etc.

Table 3-1: Penalty Point Values

FOUL 20
TECHNICAL FOUL 50

And the scoring climbs dramatically per cycle.

Running down and controlling those missed passes & shots quickly....Priceless!

(I will make a bold prediction....)There will be no 0~0 games the first week...Not counting any 6 robot no shows Practice & Qualifying round possibilities, of course. But, if they are on the field there will be no 0~0 scoring matches. Field breakdowns do not count.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Regional Qualifications: 50
Regional Eliminations: 90
Worlds Qualifications: 75
Worlds Eliminations: 110
Einstein: 150
IRI Eliminations: 170

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I thought it would be a good time to bring this thread back up. I have attached some quick data analysis I did of the predictions. Looking back on my prediction, one thing that I did not account for was penalties. Even if there is only one foul every other match, that would increase the average alliance's score by 5 points. I am glad that FIRST changed the rule for extending outside of the field to minimize this penalty. I can't think of any others that will be called frequently, but we'll have to see.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Let's see. I consider my team to be average and I think that we probably lost as many build season days, 18, as anyone did. We can hit the high goal in auto and move every time for 20 pts. We probably could get around 2~5 cycles a match depending on defense so I'm going to say that the winning alliance score will be 60-90 points and the losing score will be 30-60 points barring fouls.Those numbers go up by 60 each for elims and I think I still might be a bit low.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

In the week 0 mini-regional at sussex the highest score was around 70. I'm going to think the average score will be able around 110.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I think I'm going to change my predictions to 30-40 point averages in qualifications based on the fact that this year is generally agreed to be easier to score points. That said week 1 regionals is still week 1 regionals and i why I'm not voting higher.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Average Quals Winning Score: 55
Average Quals Losing Score: 20

Average Elims Winning Score: 110
Average Elims Losing Score: 60

These are my predictions. I'm quite interested to see how this game plays out, however. Three boxes on wheels who play the game right could score over 100- but that won't happen often. On a related note, extremely good robots might be ousted from a high seed by lesser robots that get more assist points by playing the game right.

I think Week 1 is going to be very, very interesting, and I'm excited to see this game evolve.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I like these predictions.
Week 0 events are a clear indication of week 1 regionals where the majority of robots will finally take the field for the 1st time.
The only difference being that defense is now REAL.
Lots and lots of unveils this year especially.......How will they fair with Defense applied?:rolleyes: Some better than others for sure.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Is it taken into account yet? I think it will for scores as time progresses, but on average of course.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

No, it doesn't seem to have been taken into account, and it could really sway some matches. A G10 foul for grappling to field elements, and a G22 technical foul for repeated height violation would tend to effect scores. I mean, that's 70 points to the other alliance right there!

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

After reading the statistics thread, 20 points average for qualification matches and 50 for elimination matches

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I think that the overall average for Week 1 Regional is going to be over 100. If any alliance gets 1 TF that is 50 points. That is much higher than many predictions.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I think average losing scores week 1 will be around 60. I think you'll need over 100 in quals to seed in the top 8.

In elims I can see 170-200 being good enough to win with 130ish being average.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Average winning score week #1.

75.

Highest score after all for week 1 qualifications.

195 (75 auto + 2 complete cycles)

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Today showed that Technical Fouls add up fast. I saw one match today at CI that was:

475 [320 Foul Points] to 140 [20 Foul Points]

I expect a lot of the predictions to be off because of this.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

End of the day teams just wanted to tune their shot on the real field. They ignored the pedestal light, incurring penalties, just to get more balls in play.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Ahhh...

I still think we'll see some high scores today due to excessive technical fouls. My bold prediction, a qualification match today gets recorded officially at 600 points. :cool:

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

*cringe*

Why are there alliances scoring less than 15 points in a match?

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

In our Week 0 experience:
Pushing a ball around just using bumpers was very, very inefficient. Getting it into a corner to shove up into the low goal was incredibly time consuming and would have been impossible with any defense.

Alternatively it could be teams with mis-tuned high-powered shots who can't complete a cycle, therefore can't get more than one truss score.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

I think his 15 point number was drawn from the fact that an alliance can score 15 points without ever scoring a goal. If each of the three robots gets their 5 point autonomous mobility bonus, you should have no fewer than 15 points right off the bat.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

That was precisely my point.

Any robot that simply writes robot.ArcadeDrive(1,0) in their autonomous routine should be getting 5 points per match no matter what. (A little more fancy code would make it stop before crashing into the alliance wall full speed too.)

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Considering how long you've been around, I don't know why you'd be surprised.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Hope... You would think that at the least teams might be able to move in autonomous or score at least 1 ball.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Every year, they make it easier to score at least *some* points in autonomous, and every year, I'm amazed that some teams are still incapable.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

It's easy to forget here on CD when talking about IRI and Champs and all the robot reveal videos and so on and so forth, but the majority of the FRC community is not even close to that level.

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

We had a round today with the Brazilian Trailblazers, team 1772, where we scored 290 points. 50 from a technical foul and 240 actual points. Our third alliance partner had communication issues and didn't move. We both hit auto and then ran cycles with a truss throw / catch.
Will try to get the video up soon - it was exciting match for us!! :)

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Hurry! I can't wait to see you guys in action. That is an unbelievable amount of points for week 1 and only 2 functioning robots!

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

Here you go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUi8ZEie7uw

Re: YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts
 

That's an incredible match! I'm sure that's what the GDC had in mind while creating this game!