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-   Rules/Strategy (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=6)
-   -   "Dud" robots (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124069)

gyroscopeRaptor 05-01-2014 01:10
"Dud" robots
 
The most concerning part of this game for me is the potential for one mistake to completely shut down a team. Say a robot during autonomous is loaded with its ball, but the autonomous malfunctions and the robot rams into the wall, loosening all the PWMs, and trapping the ball on board. This team would never have their cycles begin and be shut out of any points or even showing the scouts their abilities.

In previous years you would still be able to play with a robot down, but you are 100% sunk if the ball is trapped.

**edit - Sorry, this is only a suggestion ** There is a solution - if a robot is stuck with a ball inside, and that robot is E-stopped, then another ball is put into play.

EricH 05-01-2014 01:13
Re: "Dud" robots
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gyroscopeRaptor (Post 1321197)
There is a solution - if a robot is stuck with a ball inside, and that robot is E-stopped, then another ball is put into play.
Where is that in the rules?

Sorry, but I couldn't find it earlier when I was looking through and reading. Much as I'd love for that to be the case, I'm thinking right now that it's going to be a case of partner robots trying to free the ball from the robot. Like I said, I'd love for that to be the solution.

gyroscopeRaptor 05-01-2014 01:14
Re: "Dud" robots
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1321201)
Where is that in the rules?

Sorry, but I couldn't find it earlier when I was looking through and reading. Much as I'd love for that to be the case, I'm thinking right now that it's going to be a case of partner robots trying to free the ball from the robot. Like I said, I'd love for that to be the solution.
That was a suggestion.

EricH 05-01-2014 01:21
Re: "Dud" robots
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gyroscopeRaptor (Post 1321203)
That was a suggestion.
I figured--just the way it was phrased originally.

I'd be on-board with that solution--that is, if a ball is on the field but stuck on an inoperable* robot or other object, a manual override to the system would allow a replacement.


*For clarity's sake, I'll define "inoperable" as: Can neither eject the ball nor drive around due to failure of either mechanical systems or control systems, OR disabled by FMS or E-stop for any reason. In layman's terms, the ball is STUCK.

Marc S. 05-01-2014 01:23
Re: "Dud" robots
 
Another concern is that with only one ball on the field and statistically a lot of teams who won't be fast enough to do successful passes with the faster caliber teams, I see a lot of teams not getting the chance to do anything more than defense.

Ex, a team that can score goals fast enough to win by themselves won't be willing to let a partner take all match just to do one cycle. In the past there were enough game elements for any team to take as long as they want with, with only one though....

julianpowell 05-01-2014 01:23
Re: "Dud" robots
 
When you load a ball for autonomous you are taking a calculated risk. If you think it's likely that your autonomous will malfunction then you don't have to load a ball.

Racer26 05-01-2014 01:33
Re: "Dud" robots
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc S. (Post 1321214)
Another concern is that with only one ball on the field and statistically a lot of teams who won't be fast enough to do successful passes with the faster caliber teams, I see a lot of teams not getting the chance to do anything more than defense.

Ex, a team that can score goals fast enough to win by themselves won't be willing to let a partner take all match just to do one cycle. In the past there were enough game elements for any team to take as long as they want with, with only one though....
THIS is a humongous part of why I'm not a fan of Aerial Assist on first analysis.

Seems to me the elite tier robots should easily be able to turn 150ish points on their own (20 pts [truss toss +high goal] x 6 cycles + 25 auto). Especially so if they have two defenders clearing the road for them on this wide open field. Total number of cycles is unlikely to change much with assisting, if anything going down slightly.

Adding one assist per cycle, brings the cycle points to 30. If doing so 4 times costs you 2 solo-cycle time periods (going from 6 cycles to 4 in a match), you have no net gain.

Anthony4004 05-01-2014 01:56
Re: "Dud" robots
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by julianpowell (Post 1321215)
When you load a ball for autonomous you are taking a calculated risk. If you think it's likely that your autonomous will malfunction then you don't have to load a ball.
You do not have to load the ball into the robot, you can have it on the carpet touching.

SoftwareBug2.0 05-01-2014 02:22
Re: "Dud" robots
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tondogone (Post 1321242)
You do not have to load the ball into the robot, you can have it on the carpet touching.
The problem is not that your robot could malfunction and lose you the round. The problem is that you get put in the position where you have to tell your alliance partners that you think their robot's autonomous mode is worse than useless. That's a good way to make people resent you.

bduddy 05-01-2014 02:39
Re: "Dud" robots
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer26 (Post 1321227)
THIS is a humongous part of why I'm not a fan of Aerial Assist on first analysis.

Seems to me the elite tier robots should easily be able to turn 150ish points on their own (20 pts [truss toss +high goal] x 6 cycles + 25 auto). Especially so if they have two defenders clearing the road for them on this wide open field. Total number of cycles is unlikely to change much with assisting, if anything going down slightly.

Adding one assist per cycle, brings the cycle points to 30. If doing so 4 times costs you 2 solo-cycle time periods (going from 6 cycles to 4 in a match), you have no net gain.
What if you put one robot playing defense on this single scorer, then pass with the other two? If you can't beat the single robot's score with that, then do you really deserve to win?

Racer26 05-01-2014 02:45
Re: "Dud" robots
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bduddy (Post 1321269)
What if you put one robot playing defense on this single scorer, then pass with the other two? If you can't beat the single robot's score with that, then do you really deserve to win?
How will your one defensive robot do anything when the solo scorer has two defensive robots to clear the way?

Also, scoring with assists will be slower. If you can do 6 solo cycles, or 4 cycles with 1 assist, there is no difference in net score.

Damyen 05-01-2014 03:34
Re: "Dud" robots
 
Can my robot pick that other ball and score it as well to earn more autonomous points?
Just a thought of a solution

Gray Adams 05-01-2014 04:35
Re: "Dud" robots
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoftwareBug2.0 (Post 1321258)
The problem is not that your robot could malfunction and lose you the round. The problem is that you get put in the position where you have to tell your alliance partners that you think their robot's autonomous mode is worse than useless. That's a good way to make people resent you.
Your alliance members have always been able to jeopardize your chance of winning by doing something negative for the team. This is nothing new.

magnets 05-01-2014 07:51
Re: "Dud" robots
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Adams (Post 1321295)
Your alliance members have always been able to jeopardize your chance of winning by doing something negative for the team. This is nothing new.
In previous years, if my alliance partner wanted to stop me from scoring, I could still grab discs/basketballs/tubes and score them, or I could single balance, climb, or deploy a minibot. This year, if my partner gets stuck with the ball, I can no longer get points for the rest of the match. Think about if Einstein 2012 happened again, and a robot didn't work on the field. 0 points for that allinace :( . That's the first time they've made a game where your partners MUST continue working if they have a game piece.

I predict if there are field issues (let's face it, it's not unlikely), then teams will be really mad.

Yalib 05-01-2014 08:03
Re: "Dud" robots
 
What about a robot losing communication? just e-stop him immediately? because usually a robot who lost com will "come back to life" after a number of seconds..


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