Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

I am a part of a rookie team and we are trying to decide on a drive train. We think we decided to go with a drive system powered by the VEX Pro 2 CIM Ball Sifters. We thought that we had decided on using the VersaChassis but now with this new kitbot we are a bit lost. Does anyone have an opinion on the new Kitbot? I know that may be hard because its so new and the veteran teams may not have gotten one.

What about the VersaChassis? Do you think its a good drive train? It may be a good choice because you can make it a more custom size which could be useful for this year with the big game piece.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

I like the AM14U, kind of sorry we didn't opt for it. You can build it as is, wide or long. It also looks like it would be possible to build 30" x 26" square, which may be a good option for some teams this year. For a rookie team, I'd strongly recommend getting a moving drivetrain running as soon as possible, and using the extra time to practice.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

What about Rule 4.1.3.R3A ?

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Pretty sure Dad 1279 meant "a little smaller than" a 30 inch square. Clearly 120 > 112.

By cutting the kit chassis rails on one end only, you can get a 27.5" x 27.5" square with 131 tooth belts on the short end and 170 tooth belts on the other end. About 9 inches wheelbase one way and 12 inches the other, with about 22 inch track. Should turn nicely, and the chassis is larger than the ball. :)

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

We really like the new AM drivetrain - so much so that after 7 years of building custom drivetrains we're strongly considering using it ourselves. We build out of aluminum stick and channel because we currently don't have any sheet metal capability (though we're desperately trying to figure out how to get it!). Because this is sheetmetal, it saves a substantial amount of space over a thicker 'tube' chassis. It's also much stiffer in a couple directions that the chassis' we normally build.

It can be modified to different sizes per the instructions in the manual.

Don't get me wrong though - ALL the chassis supplied by the different FIRST vendors are excellent options. Each for it's own reason. Something interesting to note with the AM chassis is that the wide version doesn't have a drop center wheel. I haven't measured the long one yet, though I'll do so today.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

As a rookie team, I would suggest getting your drive base built asap, so you can focus on other parts of your robot. The new kit bot seams like a good option.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

My bad, thank you.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

We have also always done a custom welded alumiinum tube chassis and are seriously considering the AM14U this year. The main advantage I see is that we will save a week or so from our timeline by not fabricating it ourselves. This will allow us to spend more time on manipulators and practice time at the end.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

We put over 11 of the KOP drive together at a rookie quick build.
The new drive is 6 wheel drop centre and maybe configured in either a long or wide format. The mini tough box in also a low as is go without touching the ground so it makes for a very low CG. The two end tubs give you lots of room for all the electronics. Really nice design and a lot lighter that years before.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Really frustrated that FIRST chose not to reveal this drivetrain before we had to chose whether or not to get the PDV. Would have absolutely chosen this if we had known ahead of time. But we were given the choice between $450 to spend on known solutions and what was essentially a mystery, so we opted for the PDV.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

The AM14U is an excellent drive train for its ease of building and versatility. The belt drive is a winner.

We used a VersaChassis last year and spent a good bit of time dealing with chain tensioners and defective ball shifter transmissions. This one is too simple to go wrong! We built four of them (partially) in our rookie build session yesterday.

The square option is rather attractive for this game, even though it's not shown on the instruction manual. Just cut off one end and make the tub ~5" narrower.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Are you thinking of the Drive in a Day? VersaChassis was just released this year.

The VersaChassis is entirely new and hasn't been used. Its been tested on multiple robots on the offseason and is a derivative of design from teams such as 254/968/973/1323/1538 etc...

If your interested in flexibility and ease of build. The VersaChassis allows you to do any size frame. Can use multiple gearboxes and any wheel on the VexPro site.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

What do you guys think are the advantages/disadvantages of the AM14U versus last year's AndyMark KOP chassis?

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

The AM14U looks very easy to upgrade. AndyMark has some upgrade packages here.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

In the long configuration, the chassis is a drop center. In the wide configuration, the step files show that it is not a drop center.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Not essentially a mystery. We were told what type of drivetrain it would be, who would be designing it, and what the fundamental components would be.

[edit]@Tom: The square configuration is also a drop center.[/edit]

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

One advantage of the 2014 chassis that we noticed building ours yesterday was that it is much easier disassembled than the previous kitbot. In the past we inorder to replace a gearbox or even worse wheels required loads of work. With the new chassis we just have to remove the outer plate to get access to the wheels

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

That's still a pretty large mystery. While I know and trust AndyMark, I prefer to have seen a drive system before I agree to buy it.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Does anyone know what the size specs of the AM14U in the long and wide configurations? I can't seem to find it.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Did you look

here

?

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Check page 7 of http://files.andymark.com/AM14U_Asse...structions.pdf

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Yes, I am thinking of Drive in a Day. It was definitely not a finished product.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

At first I thought this was a incorrect measurement, but it looks like you're right... the holes for the front and back wheels in the wide configuration are lowered down to the same level as the drive wheel. It must be on purpose. Perhaps they found the turning ability to be sufficient and decided against the tilt so that there's less chance of the robot tipping over.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

I may be a bit biased from my involvement in the AM14U but I really like how versatile the system is. It can accept many gearboxes and really allows for the quick changing of components to suit ones needs.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Richard, I haven't pulled the system out of the box, but I just rechecked the step file I have on reference and it shows the dimensions of the drops to be the same. Does someone have the system handy in the wide configuration so they can measure it? Someone else in this thread also checked the step and it shows no drop, and my box is at school and not at Ford where I can check it easily. -see post 23 supporting my dimension checks.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

I also found there to be no drop in the wide configuration (using the manual and STEP file). I am using the axle hole that is 8.762" from the bearing hole. I should have taken the shorter belt and laid it over the holes to verify...will have to do that later this week unless someone else here can verify first. I'm looking to modify the inner and outer plates to get close to square (28" wide and 27.5" length). I had to add new holes for mounting the inner plate to the cross brace. I also had to add new holes for 2 churros in each corner (so there would be 8 per side). I'm thinking of using VEX tube axle and 4" 1/4"-20 bolts instead of the churros...and changing to #10-32 bolts with the pulleys and wheels (I did this last year and it worked well). Don't think I can get away from using the thread forming screws though when mounting the inner plate to the cross brace...the extruded hole is just too big to properly tap for a 1/4"-20. I'll add in some Loctite if I do end up using them in the aluminum. If anyone has a suggestion on an alternative mount solution, would appreciate it. The wheel base is a little shorter than I would have designed for if making from scratch, but it doesn't seem terrible.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Sorry for my confusing post earlier, Tom.

The square configuration I was suggesting is not symmetrical fore-and-aft. I was thinking to get a (nearly) square chassis by cutting the side rails 2567 and 2572 on one end only. The resulting configuration has two wheelbases; one about 8.76 inch from the center wheel via the 131 tooth belt, and the other about 12.6 inch from the center wheel via the 170 tooth belt. Axle holes for the shorter span are at the same rail level as the center wheel (no drop), and those for the longer span are raised about 1/8" -- the result is a chassis that can tip just a bit on the center wheels, effectively a slight drop.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Does anyone know how easy it is to do a mecanum setup with this chassis? My first impression is that a 6-wheel setup is easy, but mecanum might be difficult...

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am14u-mk.htm

Based off the setup here, it seems easy to mount Toughbox nanos to the frame.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

I'm sorry but we haven't got a chance to look at this in CAD yet but has anyone looked at making a square chassis by cutting ~2" off each end. I am sure this will require new belts but are the front/rear axle holes available for this. This keeps the front and rear wheebase the same.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Yes - front and rear axle holes are available for removing two inches on each side (front and back). This would result in the closest six wheel "long" configuration available without drilling new axle holes, and would give you a center drop. We examined this last night, and decided to remove one inch from each, thus using the "middle" of the three available axle holes, and ending up with a slightly longer that square bot.

Also worth noting: The instructions produce a bot that is still 2 inches under the maximum perimeter size (either configuration)

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Has anyone put together a CAD file of the square version of the drive? I feel like that could be useful to a lot of people that are thinking about the square option...like 694 perhaps.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

My team choose to build the long configuration because we determined that the wide base would be very tipsy, especially when driving defense, and the long chasis would be better for defense because its longer and the way we play defense. One thing about the long base is that you can not directly feed because the frame is 23 inches wide and the ball is 24, but with our strategy it worked out perfect, we are planning and doing basically the same robot as team O-RYON did for their ri3d.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

We haven't quite got it in CAD yet, but we did already build it. You just use the long belts on one side, the short belts on the other, cut off the part of the rail that sticks out, and cut the cross-braces and long churros to what you desire. We can't count and ended up at 27.5x27 though. We used a bandsaw to cut down the rails, and our manual mill to cut out one notch where the edge rail and back rail intersect, but you could use a bandsaw for that too. Went together lickety split, hopefully driving it around tomorrow.

Unfortunately I don't have a good unobscured picture of it, this is the best I can do.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

This year at the 2nd annual quick build that 610 hosted a dozen AM14U chassis were up and running by 7pm on the Saturday of kickoff. Last year we had only 1, with a vast majority of them ending up at the electronics and programming stage.

The frame is LIGHT. I am a bit envious. the churro is a dream to work with, the front and back rails are super rigid. Having used direct drive last year on our custom frame, I can really appreciate what you guys have done with the center wheel/gearbox. The flanges at the bottom for the electrical panel makes drop in belly pans really easy. The belts center to center was BEAUTIFUL I drooled.

A few teams assembled it incorrectly, and it was surprisingly easy to disassemble and flip the parts around. even with all the churro contact points, I can see wheel changes and drive train maintenance being a breeze. Oh wait, belts, what maintenance?

Now the bad:
I really really really REALLY wish the inside plate (as in the ones the gearbox is mounted to) had a flange bent on the top to match the one on the outside, making the inner and outer rails the same height.. this would allow upper structure to be easily mounted across the top.

One of the rookie teams put some thin wood along the top as a sleek cover. Unfortunately, with a 1/4 wood electrical panel, the cover was right over top the victor fan. this caused them to pop a mosfet on the victor. this is not at all the fault of the chassis, they learned their lesson, but i could imagine other teams having a similar experience. with a flange on the inside this would be impossible as the fan would run into the cover/structure. The unbent flange lends itself to wood very well, but it makes attaching box tubing significantly more difficult.

So in closing really my main complaint is the lack of flanges all around. everything else is leaps and bounds better to the C-base of yesteryear. Lets never look back, EVER.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

We decided to go with the Versa Chassis for our rookie year this year. We built the Kit Bot also just for fun as some of our students already have experience in FIRST. It seems to be a solid bot from what I can see. The only thing I would say about the versa chassis is you need to Mill the slots and I am not sure if you have access to a Milling Machine being your first year and I have not seen any posts about that. We have CNC access and that is how we are milling our slots. If you have that access, or even a manual mill with some experience, I would say go for it. Keep us all updated as to what you decide!

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

If you are using the VersaBlocks, no machining is required. We recommend drilling a 1.25"-1.5" hole with a hole saw in the tubing. All of the location and strength is done with the VersaBlock, the hole in the tube is just clearance. During Build Blitz, Team Copioli used a 1.25" omni bit to drill the holes, this worked excellent.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

How is the front-to-back rock in the chassis?

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

I called Andy Mark this morning. If you want to make a square configuration by cutting two inches off of each end of the side plates and placing the wheels into the pre-drilled axle holes two inches in from the long configuration holes they recommend buying the 160T, am-2266 belt. This will give you equal wheel spacing.

Andy Mark hasn't tested this configuration yet, but they plan to soon as they've heard that a lot of teams want to be square this year.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

28", 4" vex wheels, sprockets, and Ball Shifters:

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Not much. Guess I may have made a fool of myself assuming 1/2 of what was there in the long config would be enough. Software team spent all of today battling gremlins, so no report as to how it actually drives yet. Trying to turn it by hand on the carpet, seemed to me like there was quite a lot of scrub. May end up as an opportunity for the kids to get better at assembling and disassembling the AM14U. :o

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

We like the versatility of it

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

All,

We here at AndyMark have been following your discussions about the AM14U chassis. We wanted to share a quick video of you demonstrating the AM14U in both long and wide configurations, showing their maneuverability under weight loads simulating a fully loaded robot, on carpet. The video is here.

Enjoy, and keep the feedback coming!

-Nick

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

So far I think its a very decent chassis and for our previous three years I could see us using it with a few modifications. This year we are still up in the air as to what we should do.

One portion I'm not a huge fan of is modifying the kitbot to more square and even wide configurations. It is pretty straightforward to do but making several cuts on each side rail and re-drilling several holes isn't something I'm super excited about. There are a few other issues that I'm not a huge fan of like mounting the gearboxes we want to use and same for the wheels we want. Its all possible with the AM14U just some areas require more machining work and others involve using more parts whereas I would prefer each wheel/axle be identical for fewer parts and increased reliability.

I think we will opt to have our own 1/8in. side plates CNCed to tailor to what we want along with moving from belts to chains. Plus several other changes but the DT as a whole is still in design mode.

Overall I think its a great chassis but at least for our team we feel it is harder to build/modify to our liking compared to the C-Channel systems from previous seasons.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

If we had seen both the kit and VersaChassis before signing up for the kit, we'd maybe gone the VersaChassis route. However, AM14U is growing on us as we work with it and we will likely use it for this year.

I agree about making it easier to change sizes beyond long and wide. I imagine an "upgrade" available with some different belt lengths for some additional sizes from Andymark wouldn't be too hard.

I also feel a 2nd 500EX hub on each size is a good upgrade is you are going 2 speed for strength.

One other concern for us is the difficulty replacing the center wheel. Looks like the best way would be to pull the side off, but that would require a lot of work at a regional. Replacing the end wheels shouldn't be too hard. 8 wheel drive option gets around this in long config.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Yes. CAD and other documentation about a square configuration is now available on the AndyMark website, here under 'Files and Documents.'

-Nick

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Has anyone driven the corner of their KoP chassis hard into an obstacle? Is any additional bracing needed to prevent racking between the inner and outer plates under competition conditions?

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Ugh, I was working on the CAD myself to post on CD and was basically done. Is it weird that I'm disappointing?

Good job by AM getting that up there for teams.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Got it driving today, worked great. Our kids need lots of practice driving though... ::safety::

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Did you have to modify chassis to install ball shifters. Our shifters will be here on wed. And looking to prep for them

Joe gallina

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

I was not enamored of it, until I realized that the other axle holes were, indeed, proper center-to-center distances for standard HTD Belts.

The default configurations seem very suboptimal - 23'' is too narrow for a lot of potential ball acquisition designs, and I'm not a fan of wide-orientation drive bases in general.

The only complaint I really have now is that in order to do something other than 23''x32'' or 32''x23'', you have to drill your own holes to attach the front/back plates, but that's minor as we can clamp and match-drill those.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

My two gripes about the C-Base were inability to direct drive easily and too big of a spacing between the inner and outer rails. AM14U takes care of both issues nicely. Compared to C-Base or Drive in a Day, AM14U puts the wheels farther to the sides. The wheels can be within 3/8" of the frame perimeter's edge if you really want to push it. I really like the little flange on the bottom of the outer rail - it gives some bending resistance without forcing the wheels way inside the frame perimeter.

At first I was a little weirded out by using standoffs to connect the outer rails. But upon reflection I'm cool with that design choice. It's also possible to put 1/2" OD x 3/8" ID tube around the dead axles and run 1/2" bearings in the outer wheels to stiffen up the sides a little bit more.

I agree that a flange across the top of the inner rails would be nice.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

I'm a bit concerned the frame won't be able to take the pounding this year since blocking/pinning is legal from the back line to back line. I've asked my team to think about strengthening and making the frame a little more stiff.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

For those of you wondering what is required to upgrade to a 3 cim ball shifter, I just quickly popped one in there to show you.


You will need the 3rd stage kit, unless you like your high gear at 26 feet/s .The plate of the 3rd stage kit is highlighted behind the AM14U rail in the pic .You can see the the heads of the bolts coming through, those are the holes you will need to transfer onto the AM14U chassis . The output shaft will also need to be cut so that it fits within the frame perimeter.

The easiest way I can suggest you locate and drill those holes:

1: Put a 1.125 bearing in through both the inner AM14U frame and the 3rd stage plate. The location of the output shaft is crucial, a bearing will locate it nicely.

2: Use a transfer punch set to find the closest fit to the holes in the 3rd stage plate

3: Choose the orientation you desire, using the 3rd stage plate as a guide. In the pic I posted the top of the 3rd stage plate is parallel to the top of the frame. Any orientation that provides you sufficient ground clearance should work, as long as the output shaft is located properly with a bearing, and there's enough metal to drill into, you should be good to go.

4: KA-Punch!

5: Remove the 3rd stage plate, it's job is done. Drill as accurately as your facilities allow, I would recommend you center drill before drilling if at all possible, and use at least a drill press. Take your time!

6: Re-assemble, if you use the 3rd stage plate in the assembly keep in mind your hex spacers may need modification.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Is the AM14U Mecanum Upgrade kit legal for this year's FRC game according to the rule that no kit or part may exceed a retail value of $400? We would like to use mecanum wheels, but are unsure if the kit violates the rule. Thanks!

FRC rookie team, 4997

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Look at <R11> in the FRC Manual. Read the third sentence carefully.

Could these components be assembled in several possible configurations?

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

I like the new chassis. The flange along the bottom makes it easy to mount an electronics board in a protected, recessed position. The flange along the top will easily accept a 0.5" thick piece of material that could allow you to easily mount a plate there that's attached using the side holes. Very intelligently designed, and easy for students to work with.

Compared to having to build your own chassis (many) years ago it almost feels like cheating.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

We ordered our 2nd AM14U on kickoff, received it late last week, and now have it mechanically assembled. It really is nice having two robot frames, it allows for much more parallel work. After far too much discussion we decided to mount our electronics panel on the underside of the chassis since we will inevitably change our minds about the layout 15 times between now and mid-February, and it will be nice to be able to pop it off without moving or unbolting anything else. You can see our layout improved significantly from when we threw A together on kickoff and when B was actually laid out today.



Our students are now quite sick of "tapping" churros. :rolleyes:

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

did you use something other than the thread forming screws? next size up from a 1/4"-20?

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Does anyone have a drawing of the side rails with dimensions at all? Specifically the dimensions for the center area where the drive hardware bolts up. I'm trying to determine what modifications may be needed for the 2 CIM ball shifters we bought.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

You can always measure the official CAD models.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Thanks Max. I saw that on their site. I was hoping to land a pdf so I could play with this at home here, but I'll take all the help I can get. I do appreciate it. I can't manipulate it myself here, but I'm sure I can get it done at school.

If anyone has a pdf drawing with those center dimensions to share, that'd be great.

Thanks again.

SEMPER FI

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

The pages for the individual plates have layout drawings.

Inner Plate: http://files.andymark.com/am-2567%20...-%20Folded.PDF
Outer Plate: http://files.andymark.com/AM-2572%20Outer%20Plate.PDF

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

AHA! Those I didn't see!

I looked at the diagram for the inner plate and unfortunately there aren't any dimensions in the center there except for the larger holes. I'll have to see what I can get from the .step.

Thanks loads for your help, Gary.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

We did this today. Used a bearing to locate with the transmission sideplate and a transfer punch to mark the 4 mounting holes. You may need to slot the upper hole as shown for the shaft.

Check the gearing for your application.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Thank you kindly sir. Puts me in the ballpark. 'preciate it.

Semper Fi.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

My team is actually designing a custom chassis based off of the KOP one, it is very nice option in my opinion.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

So, after working with this thing for a while, here's some more developed feedback:

1) Direct-drive center wheel is fantastic, and I like how easy it is to mount nonstandard gearboxes.

2) The sheet-metal construction is nice, but would benefit from more rigidity - even with the stiffeners it's more wobbly than I'd like.

3) There is absolutely no good reason for the outer plate to be set lower than the inner - all this does is make mounting things harder. Mounting to the frame is, in general, easier than in previous years but still a pain.

4) Having to remove the outer plates to do any reasonable drive maintenance is horrible. Serviceability is one of the core design features of any good FRC drive, and servicing the AM14U looks to be a real pain. Time will tell if it becomes a problem at regionals.

5) There should have been holes pre-drilled for construction in alternate frame dimensions - it's a lot more effort this year than in previous years. The lengthwise plates are the cause of most of the issues; having to make that weird angle cut, and additionally hacksaw off a portion of the flange is really annoying, and it's compounded if you're not going 23x32 and thus need to drill a whole bunch of new holes as well (which could easily have been pre-drilled without compromising structural integrity)

6) Belt tension is very good compared to last year, but still seems a little loose on all three of the AM14U's I've seen.

Final note: Churro stock is probably my favorite new AndyMark product over the past two years. I absolutely adore it.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Seconded- we are using a modified kitbot chassis and we might have 34 total pieces of churro for support in the drivetrain... We shouldn't bend or break at all I hope :o

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Have you considered just putting pieces of lumber like 2x4s between the rails? Some very well known teams (1114 in 2008 I believe) have done this in the past and it makes for a very rigid system.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

A couple of our students have gotten really good at removing and replacing those. If you have a good electric nutdriver, it's not really a big problem. The only issue I see on our team's robot is all the stuff that somehow has ended up mounted to the side plates' flanges.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

We attempted a "do not mount anything to the outer plates" rule, but quickly abandoned it when it became clear that there was absolutely no other feasible way to get our roller arm on our robot (it was still hard, though, because the outer flange is inexplicably not at the same height as the inner one). It's thankfully not all that difficult to remove with our current design, but it's still a pain.

Even with an electric nutdriver, it's not something I want to be doing between matches. You should not need to remove a critical structural element of your chassis to get access to the belts or the center wheel. I hope they change this next year.

Re: Thoughts on the new AM14U 2014 KOP Drive train?
 

Yeah we were going to try it but our electronics and pneumatics are all packed down in there and the respective captains didn't really support my motion to put large pieces of wood through the middle