Chief Delphi - Is throwing worth it ?

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- - Is throwing worth it ? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124080)

Re: Is throwing worth it ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchklong (Post 1321584)

Does anyone know what the rule is if the ball leaves the arena ? I assume that if one of the human players catches or stops it they can throw it back in and nothing is lost but time, but what if the blue ball goes into the red player area ? I assume they dont have to throw it back in. Or what if it leaves the arena and isnt playable ?

In particular I am wondering if all of the assist and truss points still stand.

I am going to quote Rule G11:

Quote:

BALLS may not be intentionally or repeatedly ejected from gameplay.

Violation: FOUL per instance.

Passing a BALL to a HUMAN PLAYER is within gameplay and not considered a violation of G11.

The violation of this rule is a foul per instance a ball is ejected from the field. Nothing is stated about nullification of previous points, so I think we can safely conclude that truss and catch points are still valid (although effectively negated as 20 points would be awarded to the opposing alliance).

Re: Is throwing worth it ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonRotolo (Post 1322345)

Beware the No Truss-Passing signs! :p

I may just have to make a sign to slap on any defending robot :D

Re: Is throwing worth it ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrForbes (Post 1321887)

I think the important question here is, when will the High Rollers break a wall clock this year?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raZdkGxq5Ig

We broke a driver station on Sunday. Does that count? :)

Re: Is throwing worth it ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qcom

I am going to quote Rule G11

Yes but i would think G11 refers to intentional ejection. Here is how I see an ejection happening...

Human player feeds to bot 1 who does a truss throw. They do this close to the arena edge because thats where the human feed occurs. The ball in flight bounces off a moving bot and out of the arena, past the human players.

Is this always a penalty ? What if the bot that hit it was just in the wrong place at the wrong time ? And what does a red human player do with a blue ball that lands in their player area ?

Re: Is throwing worth it ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRLedford (Post 1322284)

Reality check time. In another thread on defense it has been pointed out how easily a defensive bot can position adjacent to the low goal from either open side, and by placing a simple appendage into the low goal, they can prevent the ball from being scored there, from the front, the side, or the top openings.

Unless you can push them away from the low goal (not easy with them tucked in a corner) & score while holding them away, then you have only two options:

1) Win the race with them to the other low goal (assuming no other 2nd bot defender there already)
2) Score in the the high goal.

So, at least until there is rule clarification on whether this way of defending the low goal will be considered legal, it becomes a priority for every match alliance to have at least one member that is a fairly accurate high goal scorer.

-Dick Ledford

Robot B and C come down to the low goal that this defender chooses to defend. B parks in the goaley lane by the defender. C proceeds to score any way it wants at the other goal.

Neal

Re: Is throwing worth it ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilhitern1 (Post 1323919)

Robot B and C come down to the low goal that this defender chooses to defend. B parks in the goaley lane by the defender. C proceeds to score any way it wants at the other goal.

Neal

Rules were updated to reflect Blocking Low Goals are not allowed.

G26-1 ROBOTS may not break the planes of the openings of the opponent’s LOW GOALS.
Violation: FOUL. If extended, strategic, or repeated, TECHNICAL FOUL.

Re: Is throwing worth it ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdie048 (Post 1324163)

You can block the low goals all you like. You just can't enter the cube (break the plane) to do it. Just means you have to play smart defense.

Re: Is throwing worth it ?

The way to by successful is to help your alliance outscore the opponent alliance regardless of the capabilities of allies or partners. The most successful team will be versatile. How boring will a three vs three defensive bot match be? 15/15 ties are not the best way to earn distinction.

I add the most value to my alliance by being the best offensive robot I can field. In this game, the way to be most versatile is to throw and pickup a ball from the field. (Catching and be able to score both high and low adds versatility.)

There will be plenty of good 'defensive and offensive' robots to pick from when you select your elimination partners. But here's the thing, if you are running defense, while it is true, if you are limiting your opponents scoring, you are also lowering your own scoring by at least 30% because in the best case scenario you have removed a 10 point assist per cycle(21 instead of 31). This assumes your defense is effective. Meanwhile, even you are effective at slowing a high scoring alliance, They are still putting in 30 or 40 point cycles and cleaning your clock.

Autonomous defense - this is ridiculous. Why would I want to block a low goal to deny my opponent 2 points, when I can get 5 points by driving forward? I just gave away 3 points.

Tele-op high goal defense - seems impractical - too easy to turn and shoot to avoid defender, to easy to get a foul. One 50 pt technical and your toast.

Defense in general. IMHO the foul points are so high because the game designers intent was to make offense and co-operation between alliance on the offensive game the emphasis. A game that is a race to score the most points by deliberate passing and shooting neck and neck, is more interesting then a big scrum where nothing changes on the scoreboard.

Re: Is throwing worth it ?

Throwing is definitely worth it. It allows you to do so much. Its even better if you can switch between throwing and rolling. With throwing you can play "monkey in the middle" with a defending opposing robot. You can throw over the truss and give the catch points to your alliance, although I don't recommend it. Unless your team can catch the first try and get into position amazingly fast, its just a waste of precious time. If you play your cards right, then throwing is just as fast, if not faster, than rolling into the low goal. Even though its just a 9 point bonus compared to the low goal, its those 9 points that add up and make the difference in matches.

Re: Is throwing worth it ?

Do you want to be an alliance selector or do you just want to compete in elimination matches?
Alliance selector (top 8):
You will probably need to be able to score high goal and/or truss points. There is no other realistic way to assure that your alliance has a solid shot at winning a majority of matches. If you are paired up with two plowies, it will be on you to score most/all of the points while they play defense and maybe get an assist here and there.
Compete in eliminations (top 24):
You absolutely do not need to score high goal to be selected in eliminations. Have a solid drive train, smart drivers who have practiced and a coach who has analyzed the game well, and you have a good chance of making it. Score in AUTO, have an excellent ball-control mechanism, and maybe throw on a giant net to catch balls, and you will absolutely be in the eliminations.