Re: Can you catch your own ball?
 

Now what I am wondering is:
If you catch your own ball, then pass it to your alliance partner without it touching the ground, is that a legal catch? Because the ball hasn't touched the ground before it is possessed by the partner robot.

The rules make me think "Yes, it would" because of the possession rules, but my gut says "No", because that's not exactly the intent of catching, is it?

Re: Can you catch your own ball?
 

That's clever. The rules as written seem to say that this scenario indeed earns the catch points.

Re: Can you catch your own ball?
 

Not quite. The blue box specifies that catch points must be immediately preceded by truss points. Thus, no truss points on the throw, no catch points on catching it. Realizing that blue boxes aren't rules per se, they do provide a really good window into what the GDC intended.

Re: Can you catch your own ball?
 

But I just found this in the Q&A:

"Q. Will CATCH points be awarded if the same ROBOT that scored over the TRUSS is the first to POSSESS the BALL? In other words, can a ROBOT CATCH its own toss over the TRUSS and earn points?

A. No."

Once again, though, the answer is still ambiguous. Although it seems to imply that that scenario is invalid.

Re: Can you catch your own ball?
 

That did not seem ambiguous to me. Toss the ball over the truss, catch it yourself, no points.

If we can do it, we will do it a couple of times on Thursday as an exhibition of our capabilities to play in the higher scoring efforts.

TJ

Re: Can you catch your own ball?
 

Why would there be no truss points on the throw?

Re: Can you catch your own ball?
 

For the specific instance given (a robot that has caught their own thrown ball passing to another robot without the ball ever touching the ground), there are not one, but two throws. The first throw is over the truss; that throw gets truss points, but due to the GDC ruling, no catch points. The second throw is not over the truss, or if it is, it is not eligible for truss points due to those already being earned on the first throw, per 3.1.4. Under the referenced blue box, and the preceding text, catch points only follow when truss points are earned, not on subsequent throws.

So, the scenario and scoring as envisioned:
1) Redabot 1 throws a ball over the truss. 10 points (Truss), 10 total. (No further Truss points can be given for the cycle.)
2) Redabot 1 catches their throw. 0 points (GDC ruling, not a Catch), 10 total. Ball does not touch ground.
3) Redabot 1 throws to Redabot 2, who catches it. 10 points (Catch), 20 total. Eligible for Assist points, if positioning is correct.

However, as I'm reading the rules for this type of scenario...
1) Redabot 1 throws a ball over the truss. 10 points (Truss), 10 total. (No further Truss points can be given for the cycle.)
2) Redabot 1 catches their throw. 0 points (GDC ruling, not a Catch), 10 total. Ball does not touch ground.
3) Redabot 1 throws to Redabot 2, who catches it. 0 points (Catch not immediately preceded by Truss), 10 total. Eligible for Assist points, if positioning is correct.

I should have put the earlier post as, "No truss points given on the throw means that no catch points can be given on the catch; if truss points were given on the throw, then catch points could be given if the catch was made."

Re: Can you catch your own ball?
 

What part of "No" do you not understand?

Re: Can you catch your own ball?
 

And thank goodness for this ruling.

Suppose this scenario: Bluebot1 throws the ball over the truss and catches it. Then Bluebot1 encounters heavy defense and there's a pushing match going on in the white zone for 20 seconds. Finally Bluebot1 gets free by going backwards almost to the alliance wall. It zooms down the field, and tosses the ball to Bluebot2. Really? You want that to qualify as a catch, for the throw over the truss that happened 30-40 seconds ago? And you want the refs to remember it so that they will score it?

Re: Can you catch your own ball?
 

The part where two different questions are asked but only one answer is given. The Q&A response does not address the possibility of a second robot taking possession of the ball after the first one throws to itself.

The "in other words" restatement restricts the situation so that it does not match the scenario (where a robot catches its own thrown ball and hands it off to another robot without the ball touching the carpet). The letter of the rule doesn't prohibit contact with another robot before a valid catch, nor does it prohibit possession by another robot. I think the Q&A still has room in it for catch points to be awarded if something else occurs after what it answers happens.

Re: Can you catch your own ball?
 

I know there will continue to be discussions on this, but from what I take from the rules and the info in this thread, the catch points can only be earned directly after the ball travels OVER the truss earning the truss points. And so if a robot catches it's own ball after throwing it over the truss, no catch points will be earned, even if that robot throws it to another alliance robot directly after. And because the alliance has just then earned it's truss points for that cycle, backing up and thowing over the truss to an alliance robot won't help.

Re: Can you catch your own ball?
 

We can argue about the level of precision in the rule language but I'll eat a Talon* if points are awarded for robots throwing to each other.

* subject to checking they are 100% vegetarian

Re: Can you catch your own ball?
 

So it seems that catching your own ball even after traversing the truss will not result in catch points. It may be that the catch points are not as valuable as retaining control of the the ball. The time lost arranging for a catcher on your alliance and/or the time it takes to retrieve a dropped catch attempt may not be worth worrying about the lost points if you can reliably catch your own toss.

Re: Can you catch your own ball?
 

Does anyone know how long a robot would have to "possess" a ball before it is considered caught? In other words, does a CATCH not count until the ball is scored in a goal without touching the carpet?

Re: Can you catch your own ball?
 

Catch points count as soon as the Catch is made successfully. I seem to remember a Q&A on that topic.