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-   -   Team UPDATE - 2014-01-07 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124255)

jee7s 07-01-2014 16:52
Re: Team UPDATE - 2014-01-07
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SM987 (Post 1323310)
This is somewhat disappointing. A flawless auto now gives you a smaller point advantage (plus a faster cycle start). Takes some emphasis off auto.
How do you figure? You still get the bonuses, right? Just making the high goal and driving forward is worth two goals. And, the less performing you are in Autonomous, the longer it takes to start your first cycle of the match. I don't see how there's that much of a change here.

JeffersonMartin 07-01-2014 16:55
Re: Team UPDATE - 2014-01-07
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Macdonald (Post 1323313)
emphasis mine

Perhaps I'm being overly cautious, but I am reading this to effectively say "A ball must land within the alliance station to score" because the alliance station is defined as an area and not a volume (or projection of an area). This would limit the maximum range to get credit for a goal at about 10 feet. (Also increase safety for anyone walking behind the field if you like that kind of thing)

Thoughts?
I don't know if it increases safety. I see this getting a lot more coaches and drivers, who can't really be aware of balls coming in through the goal, hit by scored balls.

jee7s 07-01-2014 16:58
Re: Team UPDATE - 2014-01-07
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Macdonald (Post 1323313)
emphasis mine

Perhaps I'm being overly cautious, but I am reading this to effectively say "A ball must land within the alliance station to score" because the alliance station is defined as an area and not a volume (or projection of an area). This would limit the maximum range to get credit for a goal at about 10 feet. (Also increase safety for anyone walking behind the field if you like that kind of thing)

Thoughts?
The definition of ALLIANCE STATION is:

Quote:
The Red and Blue ALLIANCE STATIONS are located at either end of the FIELD, behind the ALLIANCE WALLS. The ALLIANCE STATION extends 10 ft. back from the ALLIANCE WALL and 1 ft. 8 in. beyond the carpet on each side. The ALLIANCE STATION includes the three (3) PLAYER STATIONS and one (1) PEDESTAL. The STARTING LINE is marked with white 2 in. wide gaffers tape 2 ft. 6 in. behind the ALLIANCE WALL. The ALLIANCE STATION includes the area up to the entry gates of the FIELD, with the end of the ALLIANCE STATION marked out in 2 in. white gaffers tape.
Since it extends "behind the ALLIANCE WALLS" and the ALLIANCE WALLS are vertical, that means the ALLIANCE STATION is a volume, by my interpretation.

IMHO.

vhcook 07-01-2014 17:06
Re: Team UPDATE - 2014-01-07
 
I'm thinking that
Quote:
a ROBOT causes one (1) of their ALLIANCE’S BALLS to cross completely through the opening(s) of one (1) of their ALLIANCE’S GOALS and into the opposing ALLIANCE STATION without intervening human contact,
is an addition mostly to clarify that for the low goals, they have to go into the low goal box and through the alliance station wall to be scored, rather than indicating that high goal shots have to land inside the alliance station tape.

ToddF 07-01-2014 17:21
Re: Team UPDATE - 2014-01-07
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vhcook (Post 1323323)
I'm thinking that


is an addition mostly to clarify that for the low goals, they have to go into the low goal box and through the alliance station wall to be scored, rather than indicating that high goal shots have to land inside the alliance station tape.
Correct. Previously, the low goal was scored when the ball passed the planes defined by the outer faces of the cubes. It was possible to shoot a ball through the side face of the cube and have it bounce back out, available to be scored again and again. This clarifies that the ball does not score the low goal until it passes through the wall, into the alliance station, where it can be recovered and placed on a pedestal.

Taylor 07-01-2014 18:30
Re: Team UPDATE - 2014-01-07
 
The best and most significant part of this update is the one about the Chairman's Video. Thank you, HQ, for making this change.

Bald & Bearded 07-01-2014 19:09
Re: Team UPDATE - 2014-01-07
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddF (Post 1323340)
Correct. Previously, the low goal was scored when the ball passed the planes defined by the outer faces of the cubes. It was possible to shoot a ball through the side face of the cube and have it bounce back out, available to be scored again and again. This clarifies that the ball does not score the low goal until it passes through the wall, into the alliance station, where it can be recovered and placed on a pedestal.
But now I wonder how hard it would be for a ball to get stuck in one of the low goals. Hopefully someone with access to a real field will provide some information on that. Also, with the fact that the low goal is so close in size to the ball itself plus the 7" lip at the bottom high goals might just be easier to score.

JesseK 07-01-2014 19:50
Re: Team UPDATE - 2014-01-07
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jee7s (Post 1323314)
How do you figure? You still get the bonuses, right? Just making the high goal and driving forward is worth two goals. And, the less performing you are in Autonomous, the longer it takes to start your first cycle of the match. I don't see how there's that much of a change here.
It reduces the point advantage to 15 points from what it was. The faster cycle start is arguably non-existent as well since the missed ball can be retrieved by the best high goal scorer (who will most likely stay in the colored zone anyways) while the other two robots go delay the start of the opponents' first cycle via defense and setup for the start of their own cycles. The only reliable counter to that is a goalie bot, which then puts the 3rd autonomous ball at risk (unless it's a NASA bot...).

Gregor 07-01-2014 22:53
Re: Team UPDATE - 2014-01-07
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team UPDATE - 2014-01-07
TEAMS positioning ROBOTS in the white ZONE have precedence over opponents placing ROBOTS in the GOALIE ZONE.
I'm not sure why they chose the word precedence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Precedence Definition
The condition of being considered more important than someone or something else; priority in importance, order, or rank.
I assume this means that a robot positioning itself in the white alliance gets the last move, because it is more important?

What does more important mean, in terms of positioning?

PayneTrain 07-01-2014 22:54
Re: Team UPDATE - 2014-01-07
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseK (Post 1323432)
It reduces the point advantage to 15 points from what it was. The faster cycle start is arguably non-existent as well since the missed ball can be retrieved by the best high goal scorer (who will most likely stay in the colored zone anyways) while the other two robots go delay the start of the opponents' first cycle via defense and setup for the start of their own cycles. The only reliable counter to that is a goalie bot, which then puts the 3rd autonomous ball at risk (unless it's a NASA bot...).
I know it's not always great to make direct comparisons, but in 2013, if an alliance took advantage of all discs availalbe on your half of the field, they could score 78 points (the points available at midfield would give an extra 12 points). In 2014, the points an alliance can score in autonomous is 75. It's not that bad.

Karibou 07-01-2014 23:05
Re: Team UPDATE - 2014-01-07
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor (Post 1323522)
I assume this means that a robot positioning itself in the white alliance gets the last move, because it is more important?

What does more important mean, in terms of positioning?
I believe that answers the question asked in this thread. Makes it a bit harder to block in auton.

Lil' Lavery 07-01-2014 23:34
Re: Team UPDATE - 2014-01-07
 
One of the best team updates ever!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SM987 (Post 1323310)
This is somewhat disappointing. A flawless auto now gives you a smaller point advantage (plus a faster cycle start). Takes some emphasis off auto.
If you thought they wouldn't be worth points before, yes I agree that it takes "some" emphasis off of autonomous mode. But there's still a huge emphasis, not the least of which is starting your cycle sooner. Five bonus points for each ball scored (regardless of goal), five points for moving, and a possibly five points further for scoring in a hot goal. That could be 15 points per robot in bonuses alone.

cbudrecki 08-01-2014 01:16
Re: Team UPDATE - 2014-01-07
 
disappointed that they didn't really define G4, C - "their GOALIE ZONE". although, the "opponents placing ROBOTS in the GOALIE ZONE" does indirectly clarify it a bit.

Akash Rastogi 08-01-2014 02:25
Re: Team UPDATE - 2014-01-07
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor (Post 1323522)
I'm not sure why they chose the word precedence.
I was thinking the exact same thing.

DampRobot 08-01-2014 02:35
Re: Team UPDATE - 2014-01-07
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi (Post 1323628)
I was thinking the exact same thing.
It is a rather confusing word for the situation...


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