Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

After seeing so many threads on shooting mechanisms, I think we're not paying enough attention to the real problem of how to ACQUIRE these two foot balls. Though shooting these things seems really cool, how are you going to get the points for assisting if you can't retrieve the ball in the first place? I think we're forgetting the point, which is getting the robots to work with each other and pass the balls from one to the next.

With this in mind, does anyone have any good ideas for PICKING THESE MAMMOTHS UP? Granted ideas will be out there, however I feel that's what the focus should really be on.

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

Just because you don't see threads about it on CD doesn't mean teams aren't focusing on it.

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

Granted. However I still think people should be sharing ideas on pickup systems seeing as they will be more alliance oriented than whether or not you can lob one of these suckers. I feel it would be more valuable to learn what we can use to work WITH other robots as a pose to against. Passing is working with. Admiring firing systems to try and work out how you might block them is against.

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

Here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS7iPmBN-GA

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

Nice. Very nice.

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

Easy, just use this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atUUjSLMSiM&t=0m30s

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

el Toro

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

Our team agreed completely, however we realized that you can't design your intake unless you know what type of shooter, so that was our reasoning as to prototype shooters first.

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

That's a very good pick up system. I especially like the one-bot Truss throw.

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

As discussed in earlier threads the "problem" isn't so much acquiring the ball as it is possessing. This includes controlling the ball, therefore i don't think many teams will spend as much time on their passing acquisition as some may believe. Not saying we aren't...

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

We've posted several on Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcDMokRtLjw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srN0vM0xNFo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5jkzTCaFFw

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

Thanks!

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

The point of Aerial Assist is assisting. I don't think that we should just write off the intention of the game being passing oriented.

However I'm not saying anyone is, I am simply stating we shouldn't.

Now, if passing were to be out of the question, then this game would be heavily defensive seeing as each has only one field element a piece to work with. Running interference would be more than tempting if this is the case.

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

You may be on to something with this last link. It can handle all levels of squish!

At first, my personal favorite pickup from Ri3D/BB was JVN's due to overall robustness, quality & versatility (really like the side rollers). After my team did our own prototyping, O-Ryan's became my favorite for quite a few reasons.

The one my team is designing is quite compact, has built-in redundancy, and has built-in dual-purposing. We prototyped a couple of critical dimensions on Saturday and I've been off to the races in CAD since then. Luckily we have leftover COTS parts from last year so the only thing we're really waiting on is the right gearing & the Banebot wheels. We aren't releasing a video of it because ... well, to be honest the final product isn't built.

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

The real thing people are missing is the opposite of what you're saying. It is as follows: You don't need to acquire the ball to assist!!! All you need to do is impel, i.e. push, the ball. Too many teams will miss out on easy points because they don't realize this...

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

I think your underestimating what possession is. I imagine this is going to be one of those things that is judged based on the spirit of the rule, rather than a strictly literal interpretation, because it is nearly impossible to agree on one. And what I see is that the intent of this rule is that for a robot to count as possessing a ball, it must do something in order to advance the ball towards the goal. I don't think that refs are going to count randomly pushing the ball for a second as an assist. If I was a ref, I would say that each robot must make some attempt to bring the ball closer to the goal before it can count as an assist; if the robot does not seem to be contributing to their alliance, they aren't really assisting.

I would be a lot happier if the GDC could offer a better clarification on what a possession is, that way it isn't based on the interpretation of some random ref that will be different at every competition.

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

Wait, crap... totally forgot that I needed to build an intake. :eek:

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

If you haven't tried pushing the ball around with a plain drivetrain yet, I highly suggest you try it. It's fun when it gets stuck in the corners.

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

If I were part of a team losing out on an assist because such an interpretation from a referee, you can be certain one of the students would immediately question it and ask to be shown the rule supporting it.

What do you find deficient about the definition in the manual?

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

it is being looked at, extensively. because once we get the ball we want to keep it.

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

Watching the Build Blitz and the Robot in 3 days kind of mislead me about the difficulty of the intake mechanism. Their intakes seem very simple, but there is a lot of complex geometry and black magic behind improving those mechanisms.

Our shooter prototype has seen the most progress, but our intake prototypes are the ones taking the most time currently, and rightfully so. So much of the game depends on a good intake that can bring the ball in, eject it out, and control it for a pass. Perhaps we are making this harder than it should be...

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

I promise you, its not that hard... Especially with CAD available, these game pieces are really easy to pick up.

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8du0...feature=gp-n-y

Here is our intake idea. Not fully formed yet because the arms don't go all the way into the robot yet but you get the idea.

*Ignore the boot. Moving to a catapult today.

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

I think you'll find come competition season that your hard work will be rewarded. Any team that does a direct copy of the robot in three days intakes will be sorely surprised to find out that passing isn't as easy as they thought. I have seen very few intakes so far that will excel at passing the ball to a teamamte. Those who have developed them are wise to keep them a secret.

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

Unless you want to be on a team where someone passes the ball to you...

Ours:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFEBf...re=c4-overview

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

I'll help you guys out and spill the beans on this secret.

Just turn off the intake halfway through picking up the ball. Reverse the intake to put the ball down. The ball is very secure in the meantime.

This is trivial to automate as well (IR or ultrasonic range-finders work great).

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

The proverbial cat just left the bag.

Steal from the best, invent the rest!

Oh, and rolly grabbers.

5 weeks to Stop Build!

-Mike

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

I think the reason you're not seeing that many threads about ball acquisition is because it isn't as difficult as figuring out how to launch the danged thing in the air!

More people are gonna discuss shooting because this game piece is big, bulky, and difficult to get far. There may be less threads for ball acquisition, because that idea is much more straightforward. Teams have used rollers to intake balls in past games, so as far as I can tell, we just need to build bigger roller intakes.

It is also true that teams have built shooters for balls in the past, but making bigger shooters isn't exactly how you're gonna solve shooting. You gotta have more power to shoot, and a way to control that. You don't need to amp up the power as much when using a rolling intake.

The difference is that the solution to the intake is to make it bigger, but the solution for shooting is to make it more powerful, which is much more challenging.

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

Picking up isn't the hard part, it's making sure the ball stays in, and using the same mechanism to pick up the ball and eject it for a pass, all while fitting it in with our shooter's geometry is the hard part :(

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

2 and 3 have been where we have spent a lot of time. The geometry to be able to spit the ball back out of a loaded shooter is pretty tricky.

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

Gee, I wonder which robot inspired your design. :p

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

You need to control and acquire the ball. Picking it up helps. If you want to, say, have a firing system you naturally need a way to pick it up. I am aware you can bump into it and hope it goes in the direction you had anticipated but reliability is paramount. Securing the ball is an excellent means of doing so. But no, it is not the opposite, your mentioned method is just unreliable.

Re: Something Is Being Overlooked People
 

Not to mention that pushing the ball without a mechanism is no longer considering possession with the new team update. Herding it still is, but that leaves you open to having the ball or you knocked away.... And it's not like I'm saying teams shouldn't build possession mechanisms, but a lot of teams won't or won't have good ones, and they'll count themselves out before they should.