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More than one power distribution board
Is it legal to have more than one power distribution board?
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Re: More than one power distribution board
R35:
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Re: More than one power distribution board
So what rule would prohibit him from hooking up the 2nd PD board via a 40 AMP breaker slot?
Not that I'm suggesting it or that it'd would be useful (since you wouldn't be able to attach anything to it per r51 either). |
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The counter to this is the R44 blue box--you'd be doing a multi-point distribution of circuit power, and each circuit just happens to have its own breaker, which last is allowed. (BTW, Ben, if you're running out of slots, take a good look at the blue box and see if you can't figure out a legal way to take advantage of its provisions.) On the other hand, the word "THE" is used an awful lot with respect to PD boards on the robot. "The" is a singular word... |
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One and only one please per R35. The battery and wiring can only deliver so much current before parts start to fail.
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Is there any chance I can volunteer to make a better power power distribution board for FRC? The provided one has less-than-deluxe connectors and is huge compared to what it accomplishes. I'm an electrical engineer and have built plenty of battery distribution hardware for the automotive industry.
The last time I tried to contact FRC about making a nice piece of hardware for the kit of parts I never got a response. Presumably there's a better contact address than the info link on the website? |
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Have there been any failures or problems that would justify the cost of a redesign? We have no problems withe PDB.
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Next year, with the new control system we'll be getting a small power distribution board.
I agree with the connectors part, those WAGO things are awful, but I do like the current board. You get three really solid power supplies(5, 12, 24 V) that won't drop out, even at super low voltage. It's way better than the old one where you had to use a backup battery that you had to either get the charging thing for it, or remember to charge it before your matches. It was not a great solution. |
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http://www.fightingpi.org/Resources/...%20Panel.shtml
Fighting Pi has alpha data on the 2015 PDB if interested. Cross the Road E is developing. |
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I think we managed to break one WAGO connector once.
To the OP: why would you want a second board? Have you run out of breaker slots or something? |
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The only thing specialized about the official Wago tool is the slippery coating that makes it a tiny bit easier to use than a standard small screwdriver. I typically use the kind that's often given away as a promotional item. (We're actually using a ground-down right-angle Allen wrench on our PDB this year because of a specific spacing issue in the robot.)
What does "intuitive" mean? Push the tool into the slot and the connector opens up. Pull it back out and the connector closes. I suppose you could break something if you got silly and tried to turn the handle while it was inserted, or if you tried to pry the plastic apart with it, but neither of those seem like an obvious thing to do. |
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http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default...tion_Board.pdf |
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I'm not sure what the per-unit cost targets are, but I tend to use electronic overcurrent circuits. They've gotten remarkably capable and reasonably-priced in recent years. They're also amazingly compact.
I would also like to see an Ethernet switch integrated onto the power distribution board, with 12v and GND going to each pair of magnetic center taps. Then you could use a Ubiquiti Pico- or Nanostation and an Axis PoE-capable camera and get rid of a whole class of wires. |
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We use one small (3mm) for the PDB and a jewelers for the tiny ones for the cRIO and bumpers. Insert tool, flex retaining clip, insert wire, remove tool. This hasn't broken our connectors or bumpers or boards in the 5 years we've been using it. I don't think intuition is really a metric you should be caring about here - nothing we use is intuitive. Screwdrivers for some are not intuitive. Your iphone may be more intuitive for some of your students than a screw driver. |
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"Just do it" is a recipe for broken hearts and broken hardware. It fosters creativity and learning, absolutely, but at the cost of safety and time/money/resources. |
Re: More than one power distribution board
Everyone,
One of the biggest errors in terminating to the WAGO connectors is improper stripping of the insulation. WAGO recommends 5/8" to insure good contact inside the terminal. If you do that, and insert the wire so no copper is showing, then you have a good contact with the wire and it will not pull out. Please remember that these terminals are used in production environments and industrial installations. Installers rarely will insert the tool fully, they simply have learned the "feel" of inserting the tool, lifting while inserting the wire and then dropping the tool to lock the wire. While it takes two handed coordination, an experienced installer will take about 1 second for each termination. |
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We use this set of tools from WAGO -- they seem to work much better than a screwdriver and fit all connectors of this type used in FRC.
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So everyone seems to generally like the big WAGO's on the PD board.
Does anyone else totally hate the little white ones? they're used for power to the cRio breakouts and the radio power out on the PD board. My electrical student has a really really hard time doing them, so usually I do all of them for her. |
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The only Wago connection that I truly wish would go away is the one on the PDB's dedicated 5 volt output. I've never found a good tool to fit it. The best thing I've found so far is a scribe with a straight tip. |
Re: More than one power distribution board
The 2015 control system continues to use the larger Wago connectors on the PDB. Everything else uses tool-less push-in connectors from Weidmuller. These are the same connectors used on the 2CAN. They require a little practice to get the wire stripped to the correct length, and the wire must fairly straight (too many insertions and removals may require starting over).
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First hit shows the interesting product line from Linear First hit shows the interesting product line from Infineon More specifically, the LTC4364 and IPT004N03L are attractive. EDIT: And for the low-current channels, TI makes a pretty great device. |
Re: More than one power distribution board
This thread has wandered a good bit from the OP's question which was:
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Since the PD was modified, and connected to a circuit breaker, it was considered a custom circuit, and therefore legal. (yes, we did get re-inspected). |
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