Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

To be fair, many questions Q&A is asked can be answered by looking at the Manual, without ever asking Q&A. (Or, in one case I saw this year, a Team Update.) And, many questions do reference rules, or are posted under that rule, so the GDC may not see a need to reference a rule when they answer.

Rule intent is trickier. Do you really want to inform several thousand people that a particular rule exists just for the "game challenge" (or other reason, as seen in this thread), and otherwise may or may not make any sense?

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

The "Q&A people" are members of the Game Design Committee, the same group that authors the official game manual. Thus, the Q&A is generally understood to (1) carry the same weight as the manual and (2) act as an extension of the manual. There's no need for them to reference a specific rule that was published on Kickoff Day-- the GDC has the freedom to create new rules at any time. As willing (paying!) participants in FRC, we understand and tolerate this.

...often very begrudgingly.

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

The reason I ask a lot of the questions I ask are two fold.

One I do run a team that will push the edge on occasion. We did a lot last year to try to pull as much current out of the battery as we could to the point where FTA's were trying to find problems with our robot because they thought we might brown out. This year we were working on compressed bumpers and we wanted to do it with in the rules, therefore we needed clarification on the rules and frankly I'm still not sure.

Second I'm also an LRI this year, I need to be the expert on the rules at my event and the rules need to be enforced consistently across events. Explanations help me do that so I can expand out to to other cases that I haven't yet thought to ask about.

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

Regardless of if it is legal, what is the reason you were looking to compress the bumpers (pool noodles)? The benefit is not obvious to me.

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

It keeps them from sagging below the bottom of the bumper zone, which would cause a robot disable under G20. That's a pretty obvious benefit, no?

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

2013, it helped for climbing. This year, it lets you get small in one dimension while keeping the same amount of space in the robot. This is useful if you want to get as close to something as possible.

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

Welp, time to send in a Q&A about glue. If that isn't allowed, we have a lot of rebuilding of our bumpers to do...

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

From Post #10

Teams have been trying to get their bumpers stiffer for years, the rules have never outlawed compression (as far I know), so why not do it? I don't believe there is a spirit of the rules case here since it's not mentioned at all. As soon as the GDC rules on it, any team I'm on would never consider it and I would enforce it across the board as an inspector, but the current rule set makes no reference to it either way.

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

I'm going to feel awful for all the teams who use sharpies, vinyl and iron-on sheets as they will have to re-make their bumpers as those materials are not listed in the rule book as acceptable bumper materials... I guess we are down to sewing on our bumper numbers?

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

R21D mandates a "rugged smooth cloth" covering. Stitching would not be "smooth" depending on the standard applied.

Also, the rules make no mention of thread as part of a bumper, so I guess you need to disassemble your cloth to get the threads to do the stitching.

Seriously, I think we are all being a bit reactionary to this. GDC only addressed the means of fastening the pool noodles to the wood. Lets not leap off the jump to conclusions mat just to find ways that the rules make bumpers impossible to make.

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

It could be useful for teams that have mechanisms that extend out and over the bumpers to contact the ball closer to the floor. Since the 20" extension is measured from the frame perimeter, a smaller bumper would give you more space.

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

#bringbackdatape

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

Dude... seriously.

On most of the PC+CNC west coast teams, bumpers are by far the ugliest parts.

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

Dear Mr. Cubington,

I swear it wasn't my fault! Those darn freshman don't follow instructions!

Sincerely,

Dude who told kids to make those awful bumpers.

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

OK, So I didn't think a simple answer would prompt such a reaction but wow, winter is really taking it's toll this year. So normally I would talk about bumpers in my annual inspection thread but I can deviate a little and discuss them here. This will be a history lesson, there will be a quiz at the end.
A long time ago, many of us were disappointed in the destruction robots were encountering in vigorous match play. The GDC led by Woodie and Dave, as I remember, came up with the bumper concept. Dave once told me that they tried different configurations, materials, etc. until they came up with a simple system that could protect robots. Today's bumpers are a result of that long progression. They began as two stacked 2.5" round pool noodles to provide a resilient boundary, backed by 3/4" plywood, covered in Cordura and firmly attached to the robot frame. They noticed in their testing that the fabric sometimes pulled out of the staples in the bigger robot to object contact so they added the "optional" aluminum angle. Please note, it is the 2.5" of noodle that was found to work well at not only absorbing the hit but in also preventing damage to the opposing robot. That is 2.5" not 1" and not 3 cm. Anything less compressed with contact and anything more conducted too much force. During the intitial season, Woodie and the rest of us noticed that robot damage was eliminated for the most part and it was good. So on the record and for all to see, I like bumpers. So many of you asked questions, provided input and suggestions on how to make this better and we listened and adapted. The plywood has been modified to allow "robust wood" so teams can pull lumber out of their garage and make the bumper for no cost. The round pool noodles have been changed to "approximately 2 ½ in. round, petal, or hex “pool noodles” (solid or hollow)". This is due to teams (particularly in the northern latitudes and foreign countries) having trouble finding hollow, round noodles. The Cordura has been changed to "rugged, smooth cloth" to allow teams that can't find Cordura to use something almost the same. The smooth specification is to prevent a robot from "sticking" to another using a high friction fabric. The complete bumper system has been modified to 8" on both sides of the corner to allow teams a little more variable in the design of pickup devices. We saw teams struggling with mounting them to the frame with no gaps, so we allowed for bolt heads, weld beads, irregular frame parts up to 1/4" and gaps no more than 8" wide because a hard hit on the plywood with a larger gap caused it to fail. The reason the corners must be protected should be obvious, it is to protect other robots. Team numbers (I cannot lie) is a "WildStang rule" since we first put numbers on our bumpers many years ago and the GDC liked that. Sorry. The GDC came up with the color, which is a "free" way to identify alliances compared to a 2.5 lb, 4 amp, rotating light with interchangeable lens. And finally, the bumpers were part of the robot so they had to be rebuilt every year, both colors, prior to stop build, and shipped or bagged with the robot.
So where does that leave us? The 2014 Bumper Rules, all of them. So in my opinion, using anything but robust wood, 3/4" thick with 2.5" pool noodles (uncompressed by "tape or other soft material") covered in strong fabric like Cordura and firmly mounted to the robot frame works to protect not only your robot but everyone and everything you contact and doesn't give you an advantage that other teams don't have. Inspectors should be looking at your bumper system with these items in mind.
I inspect bumpers by holding them and looking at the construction and then check them when mounted. I look for obvious compression of the pool noodles by any material, signs of something other than pool noodles covered by fabric, 3/4" thick wood backing, two colors using any method, with team numbers that are readable from a distance. They should look like the cross sectional drawing in the rules. I want them to firmly attach to the robot so that they don't fail you. I should be able to punch any part of your bumper including the corners, and not hurt myself by contacting hard parts. And I want them to look nice, they are complementing your robot after all. That means not sagging, falling off, barely attached or fabric pulling out. Think of them as your robot's tie, it just puts a nice finish on your hard work.
So is there any real surprise there? No, these are all things you already knew and what you have known all along. This is what I believe all teams want their inspector to do. I will pass along your concerns about needing a third hand to hold the noodles in place while you wrap fabric. I don't think that is unreasonable as long as the noodles are not compressed.