Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

Joe,
I believe the fig as highlighted is meant to show a mitered corner, not a wrapped corner.
Tightly wrapping the fabric may change the shape but is unlikely to really compress the noodle. I would challenge any inspector to be able to tell that a noodle is compressed by merely the fabric. We see a majority of bumpers that are made nice and tight with fabric alone every year. Like I said, ask a team mom or anyone who has done any upholstery for some help. You and your inspection team will like the result.

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

Al,

Even as the chief robot inspector "I believe" doesn't cut it vs the official FIRST Q&A.

It is my hope that they clear this up with a "common sense" and "astute observation" clause because right now any fabric that will look good will be slightly compressing the pool noodles.

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

The only way to ensure a noodle is not being compressed (at all) is to have it sitting in a loose sack of fabric. Not only will that look atrocious, it is potentially nullifying the safety effects of the bumpers to begin with.

Really hoping for some common sense and clarity to come out soon. This whole thing seems way overblown at this point and the further it plays out this way, the less time teams will have to react at the end of the build season.

-Brando

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

Guys,
Virtually everyone here has great looking bumpers. Have I ever failed your bumper design? Are you compressing the noodle such that it doesn't meet the rule R21 when you make your fabric tight? No, of course not. You do realize that you don't have to work on your bumpers until next week right? They are not required to be in the bag and don't count towards the with holding either. I know (and my inspection team has the experience to know) when I look at a bumper that it has compressed noodles and doesn't fit the rule.

Keep working on your robots today and wait for a while on your bumper design.

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

I think a lot of the frustration this year in that regard is that this year more than ever in the 'red/blue bumper'-era(2010-present), teams are designing (and, if you're having an intake, pretty much have to at least take into account) intakes that involve gamepiece-bumper interaction.

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

However, having properly made bumpers for practice and robot testing in the final days are important and can not be overlooked.

The problem with inspection is that the inspectors can interpret the rules or Q&A differently. Al, you might pass most bumpers that you can "hit" with your hand and not hurt yourself. But there might be one inspector at a district or regional that interprets the Q & A responses differently and if any portion of the pool noodle is less than 2.5" call them illegal because of compression.

I hope that FIRST doesn't plan to wait till Week 1 events to give to official ruling of illegal robots (ex. 2012). This needs to be addressed sooner than later.

-Clinton-

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

Al-

I know what you're getting at, and believe me we will not be putting our bumpers in the bag.

But many teams are relying on their bumpers to fine tune their pickup systems, and many teams are heading to a scrimmage/practice this weekend (ours included). We're building bumpers now for that event, and the hope is they would be the final bumpers we use in competition.

That being said, obviously if any developments force us to change that, we will comply.

And to answer the question, you've never failed our bumpers, and thats where I'm hoping the common sense of this will shine through (meaning we don't necessarily have to do anything different than we have in the past).


-Brando

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

LRIs have gone through training, are reading the posts here and on the FRC LRI forum and all of them have my personal phone number and email. This is not the first year where bumper design affected game piece pickup. Nothing has changed from that competition to this one. And yes, I have had many questions on this subject as many teams are planning to pickup from the floor requiring contact with at least some part of the bumper system, my own team included. As in past years, the GDC expects that no team may have an advantage because of the shape/profile/thickness/height/cross section of their bumper system. We are not trying to throw you a curve. Please be patient.

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

It appears common sense has prevailed: Team Update 2014-02-11

Thanks, GDC!

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

Yay! This is the intent is was hoping for. We've used tape in our bumpers for several years now, but we would never use the tape to make the bumpers compressed.

Now we don't have to rip the bumpers apart!

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

Guys, feeling better now? Thanks to all the LRIs that have helped discuss this issue especially Allen Gregory and Ike for their input.

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

Just wondering: is there an action item in the queue to clarify Figure 4-5?

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

Thank You Al and everyone else that helped provide reasonable and rational explanations. The bumper rules feel a lot more robust now and I'll be happy referencing them if problems occur.

It's my understanding that wrapping noodles around the corners is legal again as well.

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

Did you get an answer on that? I am still working through my email.

Ether, can you elaborate on Fig 4-5 questions?

Re: Non-sagging Bumpers Q&A Response
 

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh....php?p=1339620

If wrapping the noodles around corners (and thus inevitably compressing them and distorting their cross-section in violation of the rules as presently stated) is legal, then Fig 4-5 is probably OK. In any event, it would be helpful to state that clearly.