Multithreading on Java
 

I understand that there's a Task class in C++, but how do I multithread in Java? I can't find any Java counterpart to the C++ class. Thank you

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

okay thanks, I didn't think to try that because it's not native to the cRIO

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

The Command Based programming model available through the WPILib is a good way to achieve concurrency in your software.

http://wpilib.screenstepslive.com/s/...ed-programming

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

Quoting from the linked document:

... so how does that work, exactly?

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

the Scheduler when using command based maintains it's own list of active commands, and (when a DS packet arrives) calls their execute() and isFinished() methods for every command on the list (sequentially).

No preemptive scheduling here, everyone's execute() and isFinished() has to play nice....

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

So it's still up to the programmer to use something like a state machine or perhaps yield() statements to achieve this? Or am I misunderstanding this?

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

Each command needs to finish its execute command quickly, any waits or long executions will cause everything else to come to a halt until it is finished.

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

So how does the command based programming model help the novice programmer achieve concurrency, like for example when they want to wait for 3 seconds after performing one action before performing the next action, without stalling their processing of the 20ms DS packets ?

Please note: this is not veiled criticism of the command based model; I'm just trying to untangle things.

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

You can create something called a CommandGroup which will run one command after another in a series (much like a series in labview), the Command Based API has a WaitCommand provided which will act as a wait period in seconds. It can also be done in a normal command by noting the initial time the command was started and basing actions off of the time since the start time.

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

The way you worded that doesn't clearly answer my question.

Let me try re-wording it:

You can create something called a CommandGroup which contains a sequence of commands, intended to be executed one after another. The scheduler will queue the first of those commands, then queue the next command when the previous one has completed, and so on until all the commands in the group have been so queued (and therefore run in sequence). The Command Based API has a WaitCommand. The WaitCommand is not queued. Rather, when the scheduler encounters a WaitCommand in a CommandGroup, the scheduler does not queue the command following the WaitCommand until the specified time has expired.

I have no idea if the above description is an accurate account of what the Command Based implementation actually does, but is that what you meant?


That's a sort of state machine, with time being the state variable.

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

Commands can be running "simultaneously" as long as they don't require writing data to the same Subsystems. CommandGroups are used mainly for automation (ex. I might have a ShootAndReload command group that releases my winch, then proceeds to roll it back up again immediately by calling the different Commands in a certain configuration). You can add Commands to a CommandGroup to run in sequence or parallel.

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

That statement taken at face value would seem to allow the following:

Command A requires only Subsystem B and takes 1ms to complete.

Command X requires only Subsystem Y and takes 3 seconds to complete

Since Command A and Command X don't require writing data to the same Subsystems, they can be running simultaneously

My question is, how does the CommandBased model implement this, if not by preemptive time-slicing.

Posts 6 and 8, and post 10 if I interpreted it correctly, would answer that question.

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

They aren't actually running simultaneously. I'm not sure if I'm interpreting "preemptive time slicing" correctly, but any Command-Based program could be written in the IterativeRobot style with a large number of if statements :). They're all running on one thread as I understand it, and I am not sure you have any guarantee to the order they run in. That is why Commands can declare that they require exclusive access to a Subsystem to tell other Commands that they will be writing data to it.

Both commands will run the execute() method in their class each robot loop (usually 20ms) until their isFinished() check (also run each loop) returns true. The Scheduler takes care of all the behind-the-scenes work of maintaining command life-cycles.

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

A command is a state machine. The scheduler handles transitioning between states. The states are listed below:

initialize
execute
end
interrupted

The user provides the code that goes in those methods. There is a fifth method (isFinished()) that allows the scheduler to know when to transition from execute to end.

The normal flow is from initialize to execute to end. The scheduler handles interrupting, if a new command is scheduled that requires the same subsystem.

A CommandGroup allows multiple commands to be scheduled sequentially or in parallel (being in parallel requires that they don't require the same subsystem).

The only times we have had to add an explicit state machine inside a command, is when there is decision logic that needs to go backwards in states. In our case, that's been relatively rare.

The scheduler is entirely cooperative. It depends on the commands methods executing quickly and returning. If the user puts an explicit Timer.wait() in a command, it breaks the execution model. The user can either use a WaitCommand, or check a timer in the isFinished method, or implement their own state machine. We've done all 3.

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

I appreciate your efforts at explanation, but I think the answer I am seeking lies in posts 6, 8, and 11. I'm hoping notmattlythgoe can provide an answer to post 11.

[edit] Just saw Joe's post and am studying it...

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

I'm sorry, I'll try to be more descriptive since I don't think I provided enough information. Btw, I hope the presentation I sent you earlier in the build season was helpful.

The scheduler keeps a list of currently running commands on the system. The execution happens as follows:

1. Gets next command in the list
2. If this is the first time this command is going to run, execute the commands initialize().
3. Execute the command's execute().
4. Execute the command's isFinished(), if the method returns true execute the commands end(), otherwise add the command back onto the list at the end.
5. Repeat steps 1-4.

For the system to work the commands methods need to execute quickly. This means not putting in any waits in the code or the scheduler will not not move onto the next command.

Now, onto the WaitCommand I was talking about before. The CommandGroup allows you to add commands to run in sequence, below is an example that will deploy and arm, wait 5 seconds, then retract the arm.

How does this work? Good question. The first command DeployArmCommand is added to the scheduler's list for execution. Since the Scheduler is constantly running this will cause the command to start executing in the normal sequence along with any other commands currently running. Once the DeployArmCommand returns a true value from its isFinished() the next command, which is the WaitCommand, will be added to the Scheduler's list. I'm assuming the wait command is set up as a sort of state machine as discussed earlier which will return a true value from its isFinished() once the specified time in seconds has elapsed.

I hope this makes it clearer than I described earlier. If you need any more clarification on anything let me know.

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

I would say that using tasks or threads also only give the appearance of concurrent execution. There is only one cpu that can only execute one instruction at a time so the operating system is giving the appearance of concurrence by executing one task for a short time then saving that task off and executing a second taks for a short time and then switching back (context switching). If both of those tasks are "busy" (i.e. doing lots of computations) then switching back forth between the two will only make them take twice as long but get done at the same time (assuming they are doing the same exact job for illustration). If one task works all the time and a second task mostly sleeps and works sporadicly then multiple tasks might make more sense.

Of course if you have multiple execution cores and are actually assigning tasks to run on those different cores that is a different story.

If you are using tasks then you can block (sleep/wait) in those tasks and the operating system will take care of running other tasks that are ready to work.

The Command Based model provided by WPILib is really simulating the behavior of the operating system's scheduler. It does so by using a single task to call the execute() method of any command that is scheduled to run. Those execute() methods must be non-blocking (execute quickly) so that the scheduler can all the other commands that are waiting to run in that cycle.


Example: You want to run a motor until a limit switch is pressed. The execute() method of the Command should set the motor output to some speed then return immediately. The isFinished() method of the Command should return true when the limit switch is pressed. You may also want to drive the robot during the time this first operation is occuring. In the execute() your drive Command (which requires a different subsystem) should read the joystick input and update the drive motors set points and then return immediately. The isFinished() method in the drive command should always return false. The scheduler will run the execute() on both commands every 20 ms until the first command finishes. Then will continue to run the drive command.

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

The commandbased model waits for a command's initialize, execute, or finish method to finish completely before moving on to the next method scheduled. There's no preemptive time slicing or threading going on. If your code for any command takes >20ms to execute, the whole thing falls to pieces.

The provided PID controller does start it's own thread to do PID math, and can update the motor speed from this thread too.

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

Thank you everyone for the responses. I've been carefully reviewing them all and I think I now have a reasonably coherent idea of how command-based works.

There are however a few seeming inconsistencies (or perhaps ambiguities) that I'd like to resolve. Here are two:

Firstly, it is necessary but not sufficient that each individual command in the scheduler's queue complete within 20ms. Rather, the sum total of the individual execution times must be less than 20ms. Correct?

Secondly, the scheduler maintains not only a queue of all the commands to be run, but also the state of each command... and only the method corresponding to each command's state is executed. Correct? (Compare post 15 to post 17 for example of apparent inconsistency).

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

Correct

This gets a little bit tricky because of the abstraction. The users creates a "Command" that extends the Command class, which is an abtract class. The Command class implements the state machine, but not the initialize, execute, isFinished, end, and interrupted methods. The user's "Command" implements the initialize, execute, isFinished, end, and interrupted methods. It would be possible for the user to override other methods of the state machine, but I have not seen anyone do it. The scheduler calls the run method of the Command class, which increments through the state machine in the way that notmattlythgoe described. To the casual user, it would appear that the scheduler is doing it because the user doesn't implement any code for the state machine.

Re: Multithreading on Java
 

Yes to your first point. The goal would be that the sum total of all of the commands be less than the 20ms refresh rate. In general, commands should be pretty simple in their implementation to help with this.

The second point is also correct. The only real state that the scheduler needs to keep track of is which commands are running for their first time. The only thing I'd like to clarify further is that once a command is finished it is removed from the scheduler.