Chief Delphi - Week 1 Analysis

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Re: Week 1 Analysis

Great post Greg. This will help us out when we have another problem with connecting and get back in the game much quicker.

Re: Week 1 Analysis

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrielau23 (Post 1353306)

Doesn't the Human Player count for catch points? It says:

"A CATCH occurs when a BALL SCORED over the TRUSS by a ROBOT’S ALLIANCE partner is POSSESSED by that ROBOT before contacting the carpet, the ROBOT which SCORED the TRUSS, or HUMAN PLAYER."

So a CATCH occurs when, after the ball is scored over the truss, the ball is either:
1. Caught by the same robot that threw it
2. Caught by a different robot on the same alliance
3. Caught by the Human Player.

Am I missing something here?

And then later in the Game Manual:

It says a CATCH is worth 10 points. Again, the definition is above. Therefore, if any of the above three happens, Catch points should be awarded, since if those are defined as catches, they should be worth 10 points once per cycle.

Re: Week 1 Analysis

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrielau23 (Post 1353306)

You're parsing it incorrectly. Correct parsing is:

A CATCH occurs when a BALL SCORED over the TRUSS by a ROBOT’S ALLIANCE partner is POSSESSED by that ROBOT before contacting:
1. the carpet,
2. the ROBOT which SCORED the TRUSS,
3. or HUMAN PLAYER.

Re: Week 1 Analysis

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrielau23 (Post 1353306)

I think you're misinterpreting the rule which, admittedly, isn't the clearest (due in part, I think, to a team update that rewrote it).

"A CATCH occurs when a BALL SCORED over the TRUSS by a ROBOT’S ALLIANCE partner is POSSESSED by that ROBOT before contacting the carpet, the ROBOT which SCORED the TRUSS, or HUMAN PLAYER."

The 'before contacting' bit is applied to the carpet and the robot that scored the truss and a human player. So a catch only occurs when the ball is caught by another robot before contacting the carpet or the tossing robot or a human player.

Re: Week 1 Analysis

Suggest reading your post very carefully again. Catch is by a ROBOT possessing a ball scored over the truss by it's alliance partner BEFORE touching the carpet, the robot which scored the truss or the human player. Self catch and human catch do not score the catching points

Re: Week 1 Analysis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUi8...e_gdata_player

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelg236 (Post 1351048)

I just missed this match. Will there be VODs?

Re: Week 1 Analysis

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJ (Post 1353316)

Ahhhhhhhhhh okay.
Wow. FIRST needs to work on their syntax XD. I was reading it as:
A catch occurs when A, B, and C were met rather than
A catch occurs when if it is caught by a robot before A, B, and C.

Re: Week 1 Analysis

I may be wrong, but i don't think a robot to human player pass earns catch points. I have seen some teams throw the ball over the truss and have a human player catch it but that is primarily to have a reliable way to maintain control of the ball after a truss toss. It also greatly reduces the amount of time it would take to retrieve the ball after a truss toss if a human player were to catch it.

Re: Week 1 Analysis

Quote:

Originally Posted by FearMyRush (Post 1353528)

Our team was doing the over the truss to the human player shot (we're shooting from the loading area), and I can confirm it doesn't get us catch points. We do it because it's a quick and hard to defend way to get the ball across the field while still keeping control of it(like you said). Plus, the truss points are a nice bonus :) .

Re: Week 1 Analysis

Quote:

Originally Posted by pabeekm (Post 1353533)

Our team was doing the over the truss to the human player shot, and I can confirm it doesn't get us catch points. We do it because it's a quick and hard to defend way to get the ball across the field while still keeping control of it(like you said). Plus, the truss points are a nice bonus :) .

Yeah it is a solid strategy, and if you are being body blocked from moving it is a very effective way to earn a few points and move the ball down field at the same time. 2 birds 1 stone...

Re: Week 1 Analysis

This is great advice that I want to share with my team... Thanks for your time and wisdom!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg McKaskle (Post 1353189)

I was at the Alamo regional helping the CSAs out. I will describe the common issues I saw, not to pick on the robots, but so that mentors and students can better prepare and recover when/if they occur.

As mentioned, it is a rough game and will uncover loose connections on a robot. I saw Anderson connectors disconnect, crimps to battery fail, ethernet cables pulled out, and digital ribbon cables come loose. Friction fits can only resist so much force. Fasteners, zip ties, and velcro are highly recommended to keep heavy components stationary and to keep connectors firmly attached.

Please trace radio power wires and check that it is wired as shown in R43 of the Robot manual. Late on Saturday, I was still seeing inventive ways of powering the radio. Most reboots I saw were not the cRIO, but the radio or entire robot. The log messages will indicate which devices rebooted during a match.

I saw more joystick issues than I expected. The DS doesn't know how many joysticks are supposed to be plugged in, so the LED on the left indicates zero or nonzero. The diagnostics screen and setup screens show individual joysticks. If your team connects a joystick during a match, they do not need to restart the DS, reboot the laptop, or reboot the robot. The procedure is to take hands off the joysticks, press F1, and resume play. If you press F1 with a joystick or gamepad off center, you are affecting the zero-calibration and may find that the robot is biased or spinning in circles. If this happens, follow the F1 procedure. Please make sure drivers are aware of this.

Please test your code using the practice mode of the DS. This sends the same commands to the robot as the field during a match. Some teams test auto and tele very well, but only in isolation. The transition between auto to tele happens once per match. It is important, so please test it.

Robot bumper rules, including color, are being enforced quite strictly. I understand that robots may be bypassed or estopped if the bumpers are sagging, broken, or molting.

I believe all of the fog-horns at Alamo were because a ball was reintroduced into the field improperly. They do not necessarily mean that the field is having technical difficulties.

Finally, if your robot stops moving on the field, there are a number of things to make note of to help identify and resolve the issue quickly.
* On the robot, observe the RSL and radio LEDs. You can often determine whether the entire robot lost power, can see the radio reboot, and can even see Anderson connectors with nothing connected to them.
* On the DS, observe the LEDs on the left side. Flip to the Diagnostics screen and observe the ping status LEDs and diagnostic messages. On the charts tab, you can see the realtime traces of CPU usage, battery level, and communications -- at least you can see the data for the time when the robot was connected.
* After the match you can review the charts data and messages using the Log File Viewer. It can be launched on the Charts tab, scroll to the latest match, typically at the bottom.
* Observe any dashboard or LCD message that the programmers may have put into the code -- a broken encoder, an impossible limit switch combo, a spinning gyro, etc.
* Remember what was taking place on the field when the issue happened. Were you pushing? Were you hit? Did the robot behave normally before the issue?

Once off the field, discuss the symptoms and observations. Determine some likely points of failure. Safely restore power to the robot, look at LEDs and cables. If a particular device lost power, tap/wiggle/tug the device and both ends of the power cable to see if you can cause it to happen again. Look for bare wire than may have shorted to the frame or another wire. Look for melted or pinched wiring insulation. Be sure to test sensors and actuators for damage. Most FRC code doesn't behave well with sensor failures. If you don't find the issue, ask for assistance.

When something happens to the robot, things can get intense. People may have lots of questions or theories. They may remind you again and again to hurry up and fix it. This doesn't only happen in FIRST. I hate to see robot failures like these happen, but watching a team effectively debug and correct issues is one of my favorite elements of FIRST. I hope this info helps.

Greg McKaskle

Re: Week 1 Analysis

If you read the catch rule, there are three interpretations that are (according to the english language) completely valid.

The text "CATCH: the event when a BALL SCORED over the TRUSS by a ROBOT’S ALLIANCE partner is POSSESSED by that ROBOT before contacting the carpet, the ROBOT which SCORED the TRUSS, or a HUMAN PLAYER."
can mean two things

1.) a catch is when a "BALL SCORED over the TRUSS by a ROBOT'S ALLIANCE partner is POSSESSED by"

a.) "that ROBOT before contacting the carpet"
b.) "the ROBOT which SCORED the TRUSS"
c.) "or a HUMAN PLAYER"
---------------------------
2.) a catch is when a "BALL SCORED over the TRUSS by a ROBOT’S ALLIANCE partner is POSSESSED by that ROBOT before contacting the"

a.) "carpet"
b.)"the ROBOT which SCORED the TRUSS"
c.) "or a HUMAN PLAYER"

3.) (somebody else came up with this one) a catch is when a "BALL SCORED over the TRUSS by a ROBOT'S ALLIANCE partner is POSSESSED by that ROBOT before contacting"

-a.) "the carpet"
-b.) "the ROBOT which SCORED"
---i.) "the TRUSS or"
---ii.) "a HUMAN PLAYER"

I'm not sure how to score the truss or a human player though.:rolleyes:

Re: Week 1 Analysis

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnets (Post 1353544)

That's probably why they had to clarify it in a Q & A, too many interpretations ...

Q134 Q. "A CATCH occurs when a BALL SCORED over the TRUSS by a ROBOT’S ALLIANCE partner is POSSESSED by that ROBOT before contacting the carpet, the ROBOT which SCORED the TRUSS, or HUMAN PLAYER." is confusing: Should we read "... is POSSESSED by 1 2 or 3", or "...before contacting 1 2 or 3"?

A. Before contacting 1, 2, or 3.

Re: Week 1 Analysis

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1353088)

Under the definition of CATCH, no, the human does not contribute any catch points.

"A CATCH occurs when a BALL SCORED over the TRUSS by a ROBOT’S ALLIANCE partner is POSSESSED by that ROBOT before contacting the carpet, the ROBOT which SCORED the TRUSS, or HUMAN PLAYER."

However, having the ball go to the human player does help ensure that the ball stays in the alliance's control.

Am I reading this correct? Is it stating that a robot cannot catch its own ball (for catch points?)

Of course, regardless, catching your own ball has its benefits in the form of maintaining possession

Re: Week 1 Analysis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad (Post 1352720)

Do you have an opinion about webstreaming at Inland Empire? Our team ran that one, and we're hoping to run it at UCD.

Unfortunately, no, because that was one of the ones that I couldn't watch. I was watching on theblueallaince. Only two of the streams worked (Central Illinois, Granite State), and one of those kept pausing at the worst times. I did eventually give up on the bluealliance feeds and just watched in two separate browser windows.

Guidelines for teams setting up streaming:
- Get the scoreboard in the frame somewhere, and be sure the scores are not washed out from overexposure. Especially this year, you can't tell what is happening unless you can see the scoreboard with the green assist bullets.
- If you can, get the audio feed from the announcer. If not, at least have some sort of audio pickup. Video with no audio is very confusing.
- A stationary camera located center field, with a nondistorted view of the entire field is best. Those courtside gopro videos are pretty much useless because they are so distorted you can't tell what's going on.
- Stream in letterboxed HD video (at least 720p, 1080p is better). The viewer should be able to read the bumper numbers of the robots, and everything on the scoreboard.
- Test your setup on Thursday to make sure things are working BEFORE the qualification matches start. Periodically check the stream to be sure it doesn't get messed up during the course of the day. I highly suggest that you have someone who isn't onsite checking the stream quality remotely and texting in QC checks at least every hour.
- Post links to your streams in a thread titled "Week XX streams" on CD, so people can find your stream to watch it.