Re: How can you help GDC make this game better?
 

Honestly, this is a drastic change but I really like this suggestion despite qualifications becoming different than elims. This game has fundamental design flaws apart from the broken penalty structure and this change would fix the extreme effect of strength of schedule on seeding. This must be coupled with the addition of scorekeepers to relieve the refs of having to do even more work.

Re: How can you help GDC make this game better?
 

The precedent has been set - 2012 bridges.
In my mind, this change will bring about two benefits - it will make the quals much more watchable, and it will reduce the amount of robot-incurred robot damage before elims begin. Not just from aggressive defensive play, but from the scrum that results from a red and blue ball, loose on the field, in the same area.

Also, JVN noted that this would be an awesome 2v2 game. I'd like to see that - even if it's during exhibition (mentor?) matches at an offseason event.

Re: How can you help GDC make this game better?
 

I forgot my other idea that would make arguing with the refs over scoring for assists and trussing less of an issue when teams forget to clear the autonomous balls.

PUT A WHITE STRIPE AROUND THE AUTONOMOUS BALLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't tell you how many times teams on the field and people in the stands lost track of the fact that the ball being played was an auton ball that rebounded down the length of the field.

Just put a stripe on the ball so people can tell there is a difference.

Re: How can you help GDC make this game better?
 

The problem is that all of the balls are recycled in the match.

Re: How can you help GDC make this game better?
 

I mentioned this match in the other thread, but here is why something needs to change as far as how scorekeeping is done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6pHN2gB_8Y

Watch the match, and determine how many points the red alliance scored. Then check out the official score. It's quite an eye opener.

EDIT: For those scoring at home, there was a truss pass with about 10 seconds left in the match that was after the video got cut, so add 10 points to your score for that.

Re: How can you help GDC make this game better?
 

I'm going to be short and to the point here.

1. Scale back the value of the penalties. The scaling of penalties is completely out of whack when compared to the point scoring potential for an alliance. This is causing penalties to have an overwhelming impact on matches.

2. Allow for certain rule infractions to merely generate a warning for inconsequential actions. The warning will serve as a deterrent, and the match is not unnecessarily affected by an action which did not impact the result. If a team repeatedly performs the same infraction, issue an penalty. This would be similar to a yellow/red card system, but applied to fouls. Actually the better analogy is basketball where you're allowed to commit a certain number of fouls that don't affect a shot, before your opponent is awarded free throws.

Re: How can you help GDC make this game better?
 

counted 125...

EDIT: I see from Spyder you only got 66 points.

Re: How can you help GDC make this game better?
 

Second

Re: How can you help GDC make this game better?
 

I counted 125 as well, yet the official score was 66...

Re: How can you help GDC make this game better?
 

Same here.

Re: How can you help GDC make this game better?
 

I had 135 in the video.

15 mobility
20 for 1 hot auton high
20 for 2x Auton balls scored high in teleop
80 for 2x 40 pt cycles (2 assist, truss, high goal)

Re: How can you help GDC make this game better?
 

2 assists are only 10 points so that equates to a 30 point cycle not 40.

Re: How can you help GDC make this game better?
 

This is an exceptionally good point. A few times at events I've seen, BLUEBOT would get a possession foul (for 'trapping' or 'herding' the red ball), when REDBOT was in fact pinning them to the red ball.

^This would fix that.

Similarly, low goal incursions and extending outside the field perimeter when being pinned to the goal/wall by the opposite alliance happened quite often, and sometimes the G14 violator was not penalized, and the incursion/field perimeter foul was assessed instead.

I think the suggestions about scorekeepers separately from refs is a great one, because it could let the refs focus on the interactions between robots. Several inside-frame-perimeter violations went unpenalized, even when they caused damage, simply because the referees 'didn't see it happen'. If there were a scorekeeper watching the ball instead, the ref would have been able to see the robot interaction. I think it would seriously improve people's impressions of the game if there were scorekeepers dedicated to the ball/assist/scoring/pedestal tracking and the refs could focus on the robots. (This would also help with the scorekeeping errors that are being pointed out in this thread - 125 points scored vs 66 recorded is a BIG problem.)

Spot on. I've got nothing to say except 'seconded'.

Re: How can you help GDC make this game better?
 

Yes this, 100 times over, we need dedicated score keepers.

During our Elimination matches at Hatboro Horsham, our scores seemed to be lower than expected, due to some missed auto points, and missed assist points, but we weren't all that concerned since we were winning matches. Then, in Final 1, the posted score was 79 to 59 in favor of the Red Alliance, even though both Alliances* had been scoring in excess of 100pts in each of their previous rounds. (*Semi 1-1, #1 alliance scored 99pts.)

After an intense post match discussion with the head ref, we found out that the initial assists on either end of the field were missed for both alliances, and that some of our previous "same zone" assists (Robot A passes to B in Z1, B moves to Z2) had not been counted as assists in earlier matches... Thankfully the missed assists would have only corrected the scores on both sides and not changed who won the match, so we went to Final 2 where the scores were correct, but it makes me wonder what else may have been missed through the course of the weekend.

It seems like the ideal solution would be to have one scorekeeper for each alliance, sitting at approximately mid-field and have them track the ball. We might not get 100% perfect results, but they'd have to be better than now.

Re: How can you help GDC make this game better?
 

It's pretty simple to tell when a ball is an autonomous ball by the way the high goals are lit up. As soon as a ball from a lit pedestal is put into play by a human player, the high goal lights up one section. If the pedestal isn't lit up at all, then the ball on the field is an auton ball.

...if the field isn't lighting up correctly in a timely fashion, than THAT needs to be fixed.