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-   -   Secret Sauce: Shot to Human Player (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127454)

FrankJ 04-03-2014 09:17

Re: Secret Sauce: Shot to Human Player
 
It was a pleasure helping to prove your theory Sat. morning. (Q84). This game has done a good job of requiring alliance partners to work together to be successful.

who716 04-03-2014 09:33

Re: Secret Sauce: Shot to Human Player
 
I find this strategy to be very viable because this way the ball is never on the ground bouncing around wasting time, the more time the ball is in the robot or in the hands of the human player the less is getting kicked around on the floor.

nlj007 04-03-2014 10:58

Re: Secret Sauce: Shot to Human Player
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by who716 (Post 1353212)
I find this strategy to be very viable because this way the ball is never on the ground bouncing around wasting time, the more time the ball is in the robot or in the hands of the human player the less is getting kicked around on the floor.

That was our thought exactly when we chose this strategy; low cycle times were more important than huge point cycles.

topgun 04-03-2014 11:32

Re: Secret Sauce: Shot to Human Player
 
So, why wasn't any of the defenders hitting you? The 900 human player was indicating that you needed to line up before shooting. Couldn't a defender have just rammed in and knocked the robot off enough to shut this down?

BEN35678 04-03-2014 11:34

Re: Secret Sauce: Shot to Human Player
 
We were planning on doing that as well we just need to find out how consistent it will be.

nlj007 04-03-2014 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by topgun (Post 1353278)
So, why wasn't any of the defenders hitting you? The 900 human player was indicating that you needed to line up before shooting. Couldn't a defender have just rammed in and knocked the robot off enough to shut this down?


We experienced little movement when hit because we were backed in the corner with a very solid drivetrain. Our driver was able to maintain his aim after being hit. Having a defender on us did make it slightly harder, but it did not affect us much.

pabeekm 04-03-2014 13:00

Re: Secret Sauce: Shot to Human Player
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by topgun (Post 1353278)
So, why wasn't any of the defenders hitting you? The 900 human player was indicating that you needed to line up before shooting. Couldn't a defender have just rammed in and knocked the robot off enough to shut this down?

Defense turned out to not be a big problem. Because we were in the corner, we could only be hit periodically thanks to pinning rules. Even when we were hit out of alignment and couldn't readjust before the firing activated, the ball would only land a few feet away from our human player and either
a) it was out of bounds and he would receive it back within a few seconds
or
b) it landed on field in the general vicinity of the goals

Plus our drivetrain is built pretty tough, so knocking us out of alignment probably isn't worth what little delay it causes our cycles.

Ginger Power 04-03-2014 13:15

Re: Secret Sauce: Shot to Human Player
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nlj007 (Post 1353333)
We experienced little movement when hit because we were backed in the corner with a very solid drivetrain. Our driver was able to maintain his aim after being hit. Having a defender on us did make it slightly harder, but it did not affect us much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ginger Power (Post 1326709)
. . . I think you are underestimating how hard it would be to actually play defense on the FCA. A well designed FCA should have a good drivetrain and should be able to launch the ball from a number of different spots to a number of different spots. I just don't think even an experienced defensive team would bother trying to block the FCA.
Blocking the robot (or two robots) on the receiving end of the FCA is a different story. Finding a way around defense from the receiving end is definitely more difficult. If there are two robots receiving from the FCA then the FCA would aim for the one that isn't being defensed against (or is more open). If one of the receiving robots is better at catching the ball, then the inferior receiving robot could play anti - defense (setting a pick) for the superior receiving robot allowing it to get room to catch or quickly corral the ball in order to shoot. This ties up one robot from the opposing alliance taking away triple assist opportunities for them and still allows for (in theory) quick 40 point cycles for the FCA team.
If there is one robot on the receiving end of the FCA then it all comes down to driver/drivetrain superiority between the defensive and offensive robot. This also would allow for the third member of the FCA alliance to strictly play defense against the opposing alliance.
The advantage of having a FCA in quals is huge because there are a lot of ways to do it depending on who the FCA is paired with. The disadvantages are glaringly obvious as well because the strategy relies on a teammate of the FCA to be able to quickly attain possession of the ball and consistently put it in the 10 pt goal which will be rare qualities (I realize this paragraph contradicts itself).

I predicted this on January 13th for the record :D

Tom Line 04-03-2014 17:28

Re: Secret Sauce: Shot to Human Player
 
We made a couple truss passes at Center Line, but stopped immediately when we found that the Refs decided to call technical fouls on us for intentionally shooting outside the field if the human player missed the catch.

AndyBare 04-03-2014 17:33

Re: Secret Sauce: Shot to Human Player
 
I loved this! You guys did great at Palmetto, and if I could give you just one piece of constructive criticism (I only have one), it would be this: Don't put your human player in striped pants. We knew that you guys would be loading horizontally across the field from the guy in zebra pants, so we knew exactly where to send the defense. Again, great job, and hope to see you guys at FIRST Championship in St. Louis!
Andrew - 1261

markmcgary 04-03-2014 17:36

Re: Secret Sauce: Shot to Human Player
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Line (Post 1353483)
We made a couple truss passes at Center Line, but stopped immediately when we found that the Refs decided to call technical fouls on us for intentionally shooting outside the field if the human player missed the catch.

I have video of HPs missing truss passes at IE. No penalties.

SoccerTaco 04-03-2014 17:44

Re: Secret Sauce: Shot to Human Player
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Line (Post 1353483)
We made a couple truss passes at Center Line, but stopped immediately when we found that the Refs decided to call technical fouls on us for intentionally shooting outside the field if the human player missed the catch.

They did not call it that way at Palmetto - where Secret Sauce was being saucy with those great full court passes. (Team 900 - loved your robot, your strategy, and just watching how far you could throw that ball - wow!!)

Do you know if anyone questioned the Refs at Center Line about that decision based on G11?


G11
BALLS may not be intentionally or repeatedly ejected from gameplay.
Violation: FOUL per instance.

Passing a BALL to a HUMAN PLAYER is within gameplay and not considered a violation of G11.


What does the CD Community think is the proper interpretation of G11 in regards to missed passes to the human player?

It seems to me if you were trying to pass it to the human player, but missed, that is not intentional, and therefore not a foul based on G11.

markmcgary 04-03-2014 17:48

Re: Secret Sauce: Shot to Human Player
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SoccerTaco (Post 1353489)

G11
BALLS may not be intentionally or repeatedly ejected from gameplay.
Violation: FOUL per instance.

Passing a BALL to a HUMAN PLAYER is within gameplay and not considered a violation of G11.


What does the CD Community think is the proper interpretation of G11 in regards to missed passes to the human player?

It seems to me if you were trying to pass it to the human player, but missed, that is not intentional, and therefore not a foul based on G11.

I hope that passing a BALL to a HUMAN PLAYER is within gameplay and not considered a violation of G11, even if the HUMAN PLAYER misses the pass.

bduddy 04-03-2014 17:51

Re: Secret Sauce: Shot to Human Player
 
I would think that if an HP misses one or two catches, that's not a foul. If it happens much more than that, that becomes "repeatedly" and is worthy of a foul.

loyal 04-03-2014 18:33

Re: Secret Sauce: Shot to Human Player
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bduddy (Post 1353495)
I would think that if an HP misses one or two catches, that's not a foul. If it happens much more than that, that becomes "repeatedly" and is worthy of a foul.

Yea ditto. If your team is not practiced at this don't do it. But it sure does look cool.:D


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