Disappointing Game
 

Hi CD,
After week one of competitions is over and the Israeli regional is ended, I definitely can say that the game is not reaching FIRST missions and goals. The game is designed for assists between teams, its clear that FIRST wanted to increase the value of coopertition but it does the opposite.
A good seeded robot is not the best robot in the competitions. A good seeded robot is a robot that does nothing! A good robot that shoots many balls and does assists in one game may lose all what he have done because of a FOUL made by human player mistake.
My team had a situation that can happen to every team, We didn't have good robots in our alliances at the qualification matches (all 10 matches). We were not able to do a single assist because our alliance mates were not able to get a ball and pass it. We had to do our second strategy to take the game on our team and do all the work without any help. Our rank was 18 but our OPR was one of the Highest in the whole regional http://www.thebluealliance.com/event/2014ista
Another team 1574 ranked 25 with second highest OPR.
Both teams didn't have partners for assist
Another problem is that the game can be broke with defence, the is no need to score points. In last years games teams had to build good robots in order to win, what do the kids learn by building a robot that doesn't scoring and preventing others from scoring. The kids needs to build robots that does something and doesn't preventing from others from making. We should buid robots with a positive attitude, not negative. We need to see inspirational robots, teams, students and not a kitbot gladiators war.
I found my self shouting during matches like soccer fans which is not typical to me. If FIRST intention is to provide shiny games that attracts audience it should not reduce the professionalism of the game

Re: Disappointing Game
 

We cannot come to these conclusions after week 1. Defense is a big part of the game, but that just reinforces the need of a solid strategy. The reason it does not seem like the game is working out as they planned is because it is early; people want to play the game like they always have and until they realize that traditional strategy is not going to win the game, the true beauty of Arial Assist will not be revealed.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

There are ways to get assists without your alliance partners being able to pick up a ball and pass it. Try placing the ball in front of the goal and have them push it in. Place the ball along the wall and have your partners push the ball and then pick it back up and shoot it. You don't need to pick the ball up to add to your assist totals.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

Be careful about blindly using OPR...

Re: Disappointing Game
 

Wait a week or two. Week 1 should have magnified defense because teams have not yet figure out their offensive strategies. As the season goes on, teams will figure out how to play offense and the defense will be partially neutralized.

This will always be a defense heavy game but it will start to get prettier as the season goes on.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

I don't hate the game, but I'm not in love with it either. It's 2003 all over again...

Re: Disappointing Game
 

I was at the Inland Empire regional last week and for the first day I thought that this game was terrible and really boring. But once the eliminations started, I really started to love Aerial Assist. Good alliances in elims are incredibly exciting to watch. 1678, 399 and 4161 had a great flow going and it really showed how great this game can be. It was really exciting to see them pass the ball down the field, over the truss (with a few catches by 399 in there) and scoring at the end with the triple assist was really impressive and awesome :)

EDIT:
I also think that defense is kinda fun to watch, because even a rookie team can really do something that contributes a lot to their alliance and possibly (temporarily) stop a powerhouse team that would normally just steamroll the rest of the teams on the field. I think the intense defense in this game makes the matches a lot less one-sided when a lower-seeded alliance faces a higher seed.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

Defense is what makes this game exciting to me. The catch plays by 1678 and 399 were incredible because both of their robots were heavily defended. Good defense will force offensive bots to get creative with their strategies and execution. For example I think we will start to see teams start to pass out of defense instead of trying to carry the ball across the field by themselves. Who knows, we might see teams pass to each other in the same zone just to get around a good defensive bot.

Edit: here is the match I mentioned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhY_p3qhSkY
The first catch cycle starts at 1:20 and the second catch cycle is right after the first

Re: Disappointing Game
 

One other problem you guys don't see as Yarden sees is that an israeli team can participate in one regional, we only have one regional in here and the amount of money you need for another regional with a flight to America is huge and almost not possible, it only happend once in the last 10 years.
And also the israeli regional is in week 1

Yarden's team's robot was pretty great but the ranking are very effected from the teams you randomaly play with.

Just one more porblem, we had a game with a team that did not come, what chances do you have in Ariel Assist while playing 2 VS 3?

Re: Disappointing Game
 

GTRW Match 26, we played 3v1.

http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2014onto2_qm26

Video coming later this week.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

Depends on your strategy, the highest score of week 1 was played that way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUi8Z...ature=youtu.be

Re: Disappointing Game
 

So what? You beat 3 teams by yourself, how many other teams could do that? Very few. For the vast majority of teams, having one robot not functioning or not even showing up will destroy the rest of the alliances chances of pulling off a win.

I see where the Israeli teams are coming from. Having only one competition to introduce new people and sponsors to FRC is stressful, especially when the game still has major flaws that needed to be fixed. I could see this eroding interest and support by new sponsors who went to the regional thinking that FRC still has major flaws with the competition aspect.

I am glad that FIRST addressed most if not all the problems to this years game, but sadly for all but a few Israeli teams, their competition season is over.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

It's great, but I guess you had a good robot against three robots that wasn't in the same level.
it is possible to win 1 VS 3 or 2 VS 3, but you do need to be much better than the other teams or they should have problems because the game score is based about 3 robots on the field.

The main thing I try saying is that altrough you can score in other ways the ranking becomes a mirror to the robots you played with more then becoming a mirror of the acctual robots quality.
At least in my regional and in my opinion.

from the video it seems to be robots and drivers quailty, it does not depend on the strategy because the other allaince could not use the same staregy or another one to win.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

That's because it does...

If you're expecting stellar, high level gameplay with no field issues or game updates needed, at a week 1 event, you need to step back.

I've been pretty vocal about my dislike for the game, but this thread is a bit much.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

While I think Israel got a raw deal having to take a Week 1.5 slot when it usually sits between weeks 2 and 3, it was on event personnel who should have removed the no show from the FMS algorithm before the schedule was run if that is the case, and there has yet to be a true instance in the modern era where rank perfectly describes robot quality (2013 being probably the only exception where it was somewhat close).

Re: Disappointing Game
 

And when that week 1 event is the only one within 5,000 miles, maybe they don't think that way... Not that I agree entirely with this thread, but saying "it's only week 1!" is not an excuse.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

In fact, the three robots against 1310 were all good teams (two of whom played in the final). It's not all about the robots on the field, that's only about 30% of the game. The rest is all strategy and if you have a good strategy for a match you'll always have a chance to win.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

I think my teams strategy is one of the strong parts, but I'll put it away for a seconed.

So we're saying strategy is 70% of the game, well what if the other allaince also has good startegy? they have more tools, they have more options for a good startegy.
if strategy is 70% of the game, why do we fight so much on building a good robot?

Please, I was not ranked bad(4th) and personaly I don't think we desreved winning,
but this year I saw too many teams that gave everything they had for much more than 45 days and lost their chances because of bad luck with no other opportunity to show what they've made.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

Is this specific to Aerial Assist?

Re: Disappointing Game
 

Yes, in my opinion in other games it were more balanced,
If a robot don't show up you lost the points he can does or the defence he can make or any kind of other help,
This year if a robot don't show up, or more common, don't function well, you don't only lose his help, you lose the main way to get points.

I also think startegy matters, but I do not agree startegy can ignore a missing robot in this game as it could in others.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

israel pls

Re: Disappointing Game
 

Do you know what happened in 2009 if an alliance partner didn't show up?

Re: Disappointing Game
 

You can not determine how good/ bad a game is by looking at week 1 events. This is especially true for a game that was broken for week 1 but is already hugely improved with the G40, G28 and high goal updates. As a person who has seen 13 different FRC competitions play out I can confidently say there have been WAY worse games:
2002: The choke hold strategy.
2003: Who really stacked to win other than 67?
2009: Over half the points where scored by human players.
2010: Human player fouls worse than this year.
2011: OP minibots.
2012: Co-Op bridge ruined rankings.
Wait for the week 3 regionals to make that call. Trust me it will improve. If there is a rule change, field change, or FMS update that needs to happen it will.
Just my $0.02.

I leave you with this video from 2002. if you still think this game is flawed then i give up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAmAnkYDUQM

Re: Disappointing Game
 

No, I don't.

It's 00:23 A.M. and the competition was just over, so I would like to resay the main thing I wanted to say before sleeping,
Being disappointed is fine and mabye the game will show us some awasome things in the next weeks, but the disappointment in here is big because it was week 1 and we have no other opportunity.

I wish I could wait for week 3, the competition ended for me today and even the update of the rules didn't came fast enough to help.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

While I do agree with you that the game has a few frustrating glitches, I like aerial assist. I do admit, being a scout at a district event in quals got boring after a while, but as soon as the good teams hit the field, the gym was lit up with excitement. And once elims hit, forget about it. Most exciting elims i will probably ever see. Not once was there a blowout. Even alliances 8 and 7 gave 1 and 2 some huge problems(trust me, my team was on alliance 2). Our quarterfinal match was crazy. We had won the first game, they the second(because we lost comm). The third match they won, but because a pedestal glitch hurt our alliance greatly, there was a replay. We then tied the replay, and we won because tiebreaker rules said that the team with the most assist points would win. At that point, I was informed by the sound guy at the place that the gym hit 105 decibels. Absolutely wild. Unfortunately, this is where the fouls come in. The semis match that we were in, we lost the first one for comm issues, won the second because they got a technical(we would have won anyway). Then we lost the third because we got a technical AND a regular. I don't know if many other teams are having trouble, but G12 was a killer at our event. Everyone is talking about G40, but in my opinion G12 is worse. Seriously though, mount olive district event was a ton of fun. Big thanks to our alliance partners, 1923 and 219! You guys were great and I hope we can play together again at MAR champs. And congrats to teams 75, 56, and 2577 for winning the event. We had one crazy semis match! So in conclusion, I have to say I disagree about the disappointing game. To me, the defense is exciting, and the assists just add a whole new layer of strategy to the game. If you couldn't tell from my horribly long explanation, I love aerial assist, as can't wait until our next event, Chestnut hill.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

Awesome. This is exactly how the game is meant to be played.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

I'll fill you in: Your opponent got 1 trailer sitting right in front of one of their human players. As I recall, that was a virtually guaranteed 20+ point advantage for them. That's the equivalent of a single Foul in this year's game--but scores were higher. In other words, you started out with one Foul per robot missing. Not a great game.



So... when is Israel going to try to adopt some of the district model? Or have a 2nd regional? Seems like every couple of years someone's complaining that their one-and-only chance at qualification for Championship is gone, and the game wasn't played right at that event. To me, that's kind of a sign that maybe you guys could use a second event, even if it is just the same teams again.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

Coming from Hawaii I certainly understand this. I am not sure of the exchange rate and such, but traveling from Hawaii to do another regional seems just as expensive.. A round trip from Ben Gurion to NYC is about 950 USD. From Kona, Hawaii to Los Angeles, California a flight is 850+. I just did a quick Expedia search for the same days in the first week of April. Of course I am not sure of the other issues that are encountered when traveling from there to here. We have done a few mainland regionals as well as an international event in Canada. We fundraise all year long because of this. Sadly this year we were unable to generate enough funds to do an additional regional. I do understand your frustration. It can be very expensive, 95%+ of the Hawaiian teams do not travel out of state and just compete in the one and only Hawaii regional. Be proud of what you have accomplished. FRC is the "Hardest Fun Ever!"

Aloha!

Re: Disappointing Game
 

I completely agree with you. Everytime I check "Team Update" there is always something new regarding alliances. I believe they are putting too much rules on how alliances should work, and in the end all these rules may confuse players and drivers. Too many rules about how alliances should be runned.:confused:

Re: Disappointing Game
 

I'm not entirely sure you're reading the same team updates everyone else is reading.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

I noticed several posts mentioning the unfairness of Israeli teams going to only one regional. Its worth noting that this is the case for the majority of FRC teams the world over, including many (most?) that played in week one events. According to Mark's data (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...&postcount=297) only about a third of teams attend multiple events, counting districts. Outside of districts, nearly 75% of teams attend only one event. Until districts become universal, yours isn't a unique situation.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

im one of the people who would prefer every robot against each other and no team, I like games where one robot can win the whole match by themselves like the last 4 years, I don't really like relaying the fate of a match on other people within my alliance I want to rely on myself only

Re: Disappointing Game
 

An avarge of 30 teams in the israeli regional from year 2005, thats 30 * 10 = 300 robots.
only 1 of those robots was in 2 regionals, it's 99.67% of the robots in israel that only compete once.

If 75% of the teams are participating in 1 regional, statisticly 14% of them are in week 1, and they have a choice(altruogh some for sure have problems with that too).

Does my efforts count less?
I gave everything for the build season and the preparation earlier, why should it end that way?
My team grows and does great work growing to become champions somewhen, we were very close last year if someone checked it out,
but together with trying to do our best we will keep the criticism to try getting FIRST forward.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

The thread is going into a direction I didn't mean. Not the chances given to every team is matter, not the result, but the message the students are getting. Teams that are competing in week 1 should get the same message as week 6 and 7. The message should be FIRST goals/mission that the best robot, the most inspirational, the most engineered robot may win is not passing to the students when more than 50 % ( don't catch me on how exactly) is about strategy which relaies on other teams and less on your own team R&D that should led into a great working robots that score points.
The best robots do win at the end but the seeding system is not showing that because of the assist, fouls and defencive game.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

I think it was pretty obvious that the 2 best teams overall in Israel this year were 3316 and 1574. And they did win... At the end of the day, 1574 ranked 25 in quals because of bad "luck", but were good enough on the field that they got selected as the 1st choice of the 1st seed (that would be 3316)...

About having bad partners in all 10 matches... the disrespect that screams from that statement aside, mabye if it happened in ALL 10 matches, the issue was not with the partners...

On the technical side of things, I just have to say that FIRST needs to get it together.. you cannot have the FMS crash during practice day for about 4 hours with teams yearning for play time, plenty of matches replayed (including F1, which was replayed but the FMS already tweeted a blue win. The rematch was then won by Red which won 2-1 in the Finals), and so on... They have a year to get ready with what I'm assuming is a pretty big budget... things like that should not happen, regardless of which regional you are at. I know things will never be prefect, but things like this happen, sadly, too frequently.

(And as a side note, that obviously is not a spite at the volunteers and the folks over at the Israeli regional, who gave it all they had and then some more, doing great work on fixing the issues on practice day, and in general - giving a great experience overall :) )

Re: Disappointing Game
 

Seeding has always been inaccurate because of the limited amount of matches. Furthermore, practice and strategy has always been an important part of winning in any sport, not just FIRST.

Being at the regional, I don't think that you can argue that your fate was totally up to bad luck. We together would have won our last match had the ball been put in the low goal instead of you missing the high goal. Making this would have not only given you 30 more assist points, but you would have also seeded 8th. Similarly, we seeded 11th instead of 3rd.

Implementation has always been one of the most important parts of FIRST, and that includes what happens AT the competition. If you don't like this part of how FIRST works, I'm sure there are many other competitions that have a much more definite outcome.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

Well said :) Hope to see you guys back next year, with another slick robot :)

Good luck at your next regional! :) We'll be hoping you win again in your 2nd regional, after the Israeli one haha :)

Re: Disappointing Game
 

If you'd played that match in elims at Central Illinois the score would have been very different. 1772 would have been being pounded by at least one, if not two, of the red robots & probably wouldn't have been staying in place to be able to catch. The inbounding wouldn't have been as smooth either. And I didn't see anyone slamming into the shooting robot.

By the third match of the finals at CIR we were the only bot that was shooting, but we certainly weren't playing 1 on 3. Without 525's assists & ability to provide picks to strip off defenders (ditto 4296 until it got tipped over) the outcome would have been very different.

I'm not saying the blue alliance didn't have good robots or a good strategy; 1772's catching looked sweet and 3284 looked really solid. But the red alliance played very ineffective defense, and that contributed to the score. Your strategy is important, but so is the other alliance's.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

Honestly, I think that is an unaccurate assessment. I think the situation in Israel IS in fact unique (with the only other one being Hawaii. The few other FRC teams that are not North America based do not have a local regional and so it's a different story altogether)... I think the main issue is that the expenses for Israeli/Hawaiian teams wishing to go to another regional are far greater than those of any Contintental American/Canadian team doing the same (For the pure reason of the flights for all students, and getting visas (which costs money)).

When you pay 950+ USD per ticket for 25(ish) students and mentors, that is about 28,500 USD. And that is just for flying the team to New York. I Won't talk about the further expenses if you reach the Championships... nor the other expenses that are issues for ALL teams going to another regional (transportaion, accomodation, food ect.), but you get the point. Without disrespecting other teams and their fundraising programs, it's a completely different ballgame.

What I think this post/comments are aiming for, is that it is difficult to have a game that is still glitchy (and I take nothing away from 3316/1574/3065, who were affected just like everone else ofc.), when you have no option to play again, due to the sheer amount of money needed for Israeli/Hawaiian teams to make it to another regional.

HOWEVER, I think that is just how the cookie crumbles. I see no viable solution in the near future and I don't think there is any blame to pass around in terms of the scheduling of the regional (there were no other good dates).

At the end of the day, TikiTech summed it up nicely: "Be proud of what you have accomplished." And start your preperations for next season :)

Re: Disappointing Game
 

I'm going to be counterpoint here.

As a 13 year mentor, this is my first year that my sole regional is not a week 1 regional (I was at GSR every year until this year). I agree that it is frustrating when the game is 'fixed' after week 1. That being said, this is not about the competition, or the robot. If the kids have been inspired, all is good.

Now on th the seeding system... This years game is an alliance centric game. This means that scouting and strategy BEFORE each match is critical. Understanding what your alliance partners are capable of (or even if they are going to show up) and tailoring your strategy/tactics to utilize their abilities to the most is what will win matches. I truely believe that this year most matches will be won at the strategy sessions (with your alliance) BEFORE the match is started. Hence, you are correct, that the best ROBOTs may not seed well, but the best (mostly) stratigists will. I do not think this is bad, but it is different from years past.

Also, about defense... It's been a number of years since defense has been allowed to play all out. Most years there are safe zones, and such. Without those rules the defense this year will be brutal. Defenses are allowed to be as agressive as the offensive robots have been for years, and some teams have not properly prepared for it. Game strategy is not always about scoring and offense, and this year playing defense (especially if you are designed for it) may be just as effective (or more so).

JM(NS)HO

Re: Disappointing Game
 

I must agree with yarden.
The alliance picks reveal everything:
first pick - 1574 - ranked 25
second - 3339 - ranked 18
third - 4320 - ranked 16
fourth - 1577 - ranked 9
fifth - 5038 - ranked 20
and the picks were very good, really close to our scouting.
the OPRs are pretty close to be true this time.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

FIRST is not looking for the "best" robot. FIRST is looking for the "best" teams that can work together to understand all aspects of the game. Then design on build a robot that will be a asset to the many alliances they will be paired with during the qualification rounds. Then the "Best" teams will make it into the elimination rounds where "best" alliance will prevail.
If FIRST wanted to find the best robot, they would have a one on one robot matches and the teamwork would not matter.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

While I didn't really get a chance to read too many posts I will admit this. Even if I hate this years game, it does a good job of making rookie and new teams feel like they are welcome to join the fray.
If you make it too complex for the rookie teams then the amount of new teams signing up will be reduced significantly, if its too simple then this forum will happen.
Its a fine balance and I look forward to seeing what FRC learns from this years game when they put together future games.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

As a couch in this year's game, I have to say that I hate my job. I've spent 45 days building the robot, and I want them to count for my winning, not the 2 days of competition. On the other hand, games also should be fun to watch, and a game which involves strategy makes great show for the audience (though in my opinion an amazing robot showcasing is always better). FIRST should work on balancing those ideals, and I think this year they went a little too extreme on the "strategy and communication" side.

I don't agree with you, I think last year's game done this job much better. In it 2013 was much easier to complete a basic robot (shooter and 1st stage climber) but also featured challenges for the veteran teams (ground pickup, 3rd stage climbing). This year, on the other hand, most teams could not manege to complete all game challenges successfully due to the harder challenge.
I am not saying that this is not a good challenge, but these are the facts. What I do say is that teams that did manege to complete the challenge could find themselves low in the seeding due to their alliances.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

And I'll disagree with you. This year, a team can build a kit bot with absolutely no appendage, and still have a major effect on the game. That box bot can play hard defense, and week 1 has shown us that defense can be the difference between winning and losing. That bot can even score in the low goals, possess the ball, and give assists. Last year, a box bot was almost useless without some sort of appendage to hang or score low goals. And defense was nearly impossible because of all the safe zone.

So without a doubt, a very inexperienced rookie team can still build a robot and have just as good of a chance as anyone else.

I'm truly sorry that the Israel regional did not go according to plan. But that is the risk one takes with a week 1 event. I won't blame anyone, but I think that if it were to have been even a week 2 regional, the outcome would have been much more positive for all teams involved.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

This is an interesting point. What is the rule on smashing into robots this year? I may have missed the specifics in the manual, but I didn't see anything laid out for what is and isn't allowed.
I am assuming that tearing across the field at full speed into another robot is still a foul right?

Re: Disappointing Game
 

Hasn't been for quite some time. In fact, I think that rule went away with 100% bumper coverage.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

I don't mean to come off as I like this years game in all honesty it is also disappointing to me. Looking around it there are traces of "vestigial game pieces" that hint towards the game having more challenges. Remember at the reveal how they talked about how much the truss can hold? Maybe the end game involved that. The autonomous period in order to be completed bare minimum can have 2 of the 3 robots on a team positioned against a wall and then driven towards the low goal with a ball infront of them. Past games had a level of depth that you just don't see in this years game. I just see little bits here and there that say this game was supposed to be something else but something happened. I think I should really emphasize the part when I said...
"Its a fine balance and I look forward to seeing what FRC learns from this years game when they put together future games."
It was my polite way of saying this year the game devs made in my opinion serious mistakes when they made this game and they need to learn from them. I don't mean to attract flak because making a game is hard. I would be interested to see how much money they put towards game development.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

But is a box bot as fascinating as a 2013 high goaler?

As for the week 1 issue, the regional takes place in one of Israel's biggest basketball arena. It's good on the one hand, because it helps raising awareness to FRC, but on the other hand we are completely dependent on the schedule of the place. We therefore can not freely pick a time for the regional when it's the most comfortable for us.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

Of course it's not as fascinating! But FIRST isn't about who has the most fascinating robot. The goal is to get kids interesting in STEM careers. And if a box bot does that, then mission accomplished.

I'm seeing a lot of people here that think the competition was created with just the robot in mind. If that's your mindset, you need to do some research into what FIRST is about. It has never been only about the robot, it's about getting students interested in science and engineering and pursue those careers.

I can see how there are some issues with the venue. That's disappointing, but obviously nothing can be done.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

I don't know about you, but I find it much more effective to fulfill FiRST's goals with a good robot. Especially the recognition part. Imagine if every FRC team was a box bot. Would FIRST still even exist? Or would everybody just lose interest over a bunch of robots ramming into reach other and never scoring points?

And, yes, something can be done. FIRST can take better care to make sure things are ready for week 1, and not make the same mistakes they made this year again.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

I feel like this thread is filled with too many pessimists :(

Re: Disappointing Game
 

You're right, the other alliance seemed to have ineffective defense. Their strategy was to put three bots on 1772 at once, but 1772 had an incredibly strong drive train, so they didn't get pushed around as much. Also, so far the inbounding to our bot has been crazy because other human players can toss the ball into our bot and it saves time. I definitely agree though that strategy is incredibly important, and that's one reason why I love this game. It forces you to work with other teams and figure out a strategy, so communication and teamwork are necessary. It is really difficult to go alone and win.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

Of course not. The teams that build High Goal robots in 2013, aren't going to have a box on wheels, they'll be shooting over the truss and into the High Goal this year too. However, this year teams that have a box on wheels can actually feel like they're part of the game. They can score in auton simply by driving forward and shoving a ball into the low goal. I know if I was a rookie, I'd be far more inspired with my box on wheels this year then I would of been last year; and teams that have the capabilities are going to build amazing robots like they do every year. It's the best of both worlds.

If we toss out the issues that Week 1 venues faced this year, I'd say we have a great game on our hands, and an exciting one too.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

As long as you remain optimistic about it . . . . . .:p :D

Re: Disappointing Game
 

That strikes me as a very selfish attitude. What's the point in watching people who care only about themselves? Where's the inspiration in wanting the rest of your alliance to stay out of your way and let you dominate the game?

I think Aerial Assist does a very good job of promoting cooperation and asking every team to contribute. If you want a better chance to control your fate, you have the option of checking with your alliance partners ahead of time to see what you can do to make them as good as they can be.

If you've done your job well, your team already knows whether you're winners.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

I agree. Running back and forth at the DoubleDECCer and watching both the Lake Superior and Northern Lights matches, I have to say the the LSR eliminations were easily some of the most exciting I can remember of the regionals I've been at. I have to imagine that's the game the GDC were hoping for-- nail-biter matches of teams playing neck-and-neck.

I didn't get a chance to watch many qualification matches this weekend, but with regards to eliminations this game really feels "complete"--watching a robot trying to grab that lass truss or 10 point goal to clinch the match is more exciting the hanging last year ever was.

Despite the fact that my team's robot really didn't perform well at Northern Lights (missing eliminations for the first time since 2011, barring Championships), I have to say this is probably my favorite game of my time as a student. The depth, the nail-biting eliminations, the simple rules with complex gameplay have lead to what I consider the exact opposite of a disappointing game.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

This game serves as a great design for what a lot of people will experience in real life. Most people don't go through life being a rock star with out some help from others. This game teaches all of us that we will need some help to achieve our goals.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

For me this is the best designed game yet as it highlights the need for team work to achieve a goal. Even the alpha male in a wolf pack gets help from the rest of the pack.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

Discounting the problems with the way referees can't keep up because they're dramatically over-worked by the design of this game (which is making foul calls and missed assists a big problem), I really like the balance of this game.

When a clean match is played, and the scoring is correct, its a remarkably well-balanced game. No one team can build a superstar robot like the powerhouses have for years, and win this game by themselves. Try to do that, and 3 medium strength robots with a superior strategy are able to win.

I think this is, in part, due to the relatively low ceiling of robot actions in this game. Robots can acquire balls, pass them with low energy on the floor (or into the low goal), and shoot them with low energy over the truss, and shoot them with higher energy into the high goal. There really aren't many actions you can build your robot to do this year, and they're all fairly simple and lightweight (so you don't need to make a lot of compromises to save weight like you have in previous years). It means that its difficult to build a robot that is dramatically better than everyone else.

Those middle-of-the-road teams that are forever living in the shadows of the powerhouses are nearly on par with the powerhouses this year, at least in terms of their robot's ability to manipulate balls. The powerhouses of course still have strategy and driver practice on their side, but the robot itself isn't nearly as dominating, and that is making eliminations really exciting to watch. The serpentine draft, particularly at small events, is allowing lower seeded alliance captains to build stronger alliances with better synergy than the #1 alliance in many cases. Just having the 2 best robots at the event isn't enough this year. You must have a winning strategy to go with it.

Re: Disappointing Game
 

After watching the Gull Lake Competition where a rookie (4967, That ONE Team) with an extremely extremely simple robot rank 2nd and not lose a round in elims, I think this is an amazing game. This truly is engineering.