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-   -   2014 Greater Toronto East Regional (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127556)

Tem1514 Mentor 08-03-2014 15:14

Re: 2014 Greater Toronto East Regional
 
Wow :ahh: Blue just played F1 with only two bots :yikes:

I wonder why they didn't call for a backup bot:confused:

Bochek 08-03-2014 15:15

Re: 2014 Greater Toronto East Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve W (Post 1355378)
They had possession. T foul

But it could be argued that the other alliance caused them to take the foul.

Bochek 08-03-2014 15:15

Re: 2014 Greater Toronto East Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tem1514 Mentor (Post 1355379)
Wow :ahh: Blue just played F1 with only two bots :yikes:

I wonder why they didn't call for a backup bot:confused:

1241 spent the match fixing their robot.

Racer26 08-03-2014 15:18

Re: 2014 Greater Toronto East Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bochek (Post 1355382)
1241 spent the match fixing their robot.

Suspect they didn't call for a backup cause winning 2 against 4476/2198/1285 replacing 1241 with a backup would have been more impossible than coming back from losing the first match of the finals.

Duncan Macdonald 08-03-2014 15:20

It's really hard to replace the second overall pick.

PriyankP 08-03-2014 15:29

Re: 2014 Greater Toronto East Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bochek (Post 1355373)
They accidentally caught the blue ball after it was shot over the truss. And quickly (as they could) removed it from their robot. I'm not 100% on the rules on this one. But shouldn't that not be a T-Foul?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmwilson13 (Post 1355377)
i agree

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bochek (Post 1355380)
But it could be argued that the other alliance caused them to take the foul.

The rules state that if you possess the wrong ball, it is a technical foul. It explicitly states in the rules that you should design your robot to never possess the opponent's ball - even accidentally.

Now, if the blue team intentionally put the blue ball in the red robot, it would be causing them to take a penalty. But they just went for the truss shot that bounced into the red robot.


Either way, it is really heart breaking when the top seed loses before the finals. Kudos to the blue alliance for playing good defence and having a really well rounded alliance!

engunneer 08-03-2014 15:33

Re: 2014 Greater Toronto East Regional
 
and now they have taken out the #2 alliance in the finals. Fantastic work all around. Congrats 2198/4476/1285!

Mr. Lim 08-03-2014 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bochek (Post 1355380)
But it could be argued that the other alliance caused them to take the foul.

https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Question/...rt-to-immediat

This q&a addresses the direct question. It does leave the exact situation open to interpretation to the referees, but it does let you know what the GDCs line of thinking is on this situation.

Crazy matches. Crazy tournament.

Not surprised that members of both 4476 and 1285 were at GTRW and took some of the strategic play back east with them.

Gaurav27 08-03-2014 15:52

Re: 2014 Greater Toronto East Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Lim (Post 1355393)

Crazy matches. Crazy tournament.

Not surprised that members of both 4476 and 1285 were at GTRW and took some of the strategic play back east with them.

We definitely used strategies both employed and learned from the Greater Toronto West Regional.

Crazy to say the least. I've never seen an eliminations bracket like this, with such extreme circumstances. The penalty values make every match a swing match. Thus, making it heavily reliant on alliance synergy and strategies!

Paul Copioli 08-03-2014 18:43

Re: 2014 Greater Toronto East Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaurav27 (Post 1355399)
The penalty values make every match a swing match.

I agree with this above, but ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaurav27 (Post 1355399)
Thus, making it heavily reliant on alliance synergy and strategies!

This makes no sense.


To me, it's more like this: "The penalty values make every match a swing match. Thus, making it heavily reliant on referees implementation and interpretation of the rules."

C'mon guys. 50 pt penalty for inconsequential ball in another teams robot. I understand what the rule says, but think it is stupid. A rule like this should make it so the refs can determine if it was inconsequential to the score or not. Anyone watching this particular situation in SF1-2 could see what happened and the ball was immediately ejected from the robot. It was ejected much faster than even field reset can give the ball back to the human player.

These rules and point values are out of whack. Seriously out of whack. My comments after week 1 still stand.

Crazy game? That's one way of saying it.

Link07 08-03-2014 19:01

Re: 2014 Greater Toronto East Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli (Post 1355463)
I agree with this above, but ...


This makes no sense.


To me, it's more like this: "The penalty values make every match a swing match. Thus, making it heavily reliant on referees implementation and interpretation of the rules."

C'mon guys. 50 pt penalty for inconsequential ball in another teams robot. I understand what the rule says, but think it is stupid. A rule like this should make it so the refs can determine if it was inconsequential to the score or not. Anyone watching this particular situation in SF1-2 could see what happened and the ball was immediately ejected from the robot. It was ejected much faster than even field reset can give the ball back to the human player.

These rules and point values are out of whack. Seriously out of whack. My comments after week 1 still stand.

Crazy game? That's one way of saying it.

I take an opposite view point. It's as important to be able to score as it is to be smart and avoid these types of penalties. I believe any ref at any event would have likely called that possession (which in this case I don't think is very open to interpretation), so it would have been in the best interest of the team to avoid it. Saying that they couldn't is like saying they couldn't effectively do another task like scoring. The penalties in this game put a big emphasis on playing cleanly and designing your robot to play cleanly. Have there been inconsistencies with the refs? Sure, but that happens every year. Bottom line, it was the right call in the way the rules have been written for a game that placed heavy importance on playing cleanly from the very beginning. Some may not like that the game is designed this way, but it's the reality.

Anupam Goli 08-03-2014 19:04

Re: 2014 Greater Toronto East Regional
 
i know this isn't a YMTC thread, but since we're bringing the point of possesion up...

If I'm lined up for a catch, my ally and opponent both fire, my ally misses, but my opponent's ball ends up in my catcher, what would you call that? I don't see how in a game where catching is an objective, you can design something that doesn't catch opponent's balls on accident.

mman1506 08-03-2014 19:12

Re: 2014 Greater Toronto East Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anupam Goli (Post 1355474)
I don't see how in a game where catching is an objective, you can design something that doesn't catch opponent's balls on accident.

254, 1114, our robot and probably quite a few more have mechanisms in place to prevent catching the ball unless they are in their "catching position".

Pault 08-03-2014 19:15

Re: 2014 Greater Toronto East Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli (Post 1355463)
I agree with this above, but ...


This makes no sense.


To me, it's more like this: "The penalty values make every match a swing match. Thus, making it heavily reliant on referees implementation and interpretation of the rules."

C'mon guys. 50 pt penalty for inconsequential ball in another teams robot. I understand what the rule says, but think it is stupid. A rule like this should make it so the refs can determine if it was inconsequential to the score or not. Anyone watching this particular situation in SF1-2 could see what happened and the ball was immediately ejected from the robot. It was ejected much faster than even field reset can give the ball back to the human player.

These rules and point values are out of whack. Seriously out of whack. My comments after week 1 still stand.

Crazy game? That's one way of saying it.

Yes.



My biggest problem with this game isn't just that it is too easy to get fouls. It is that you can get easily get fouls for things which barely hurt the opposing alliance, all these common fouls are technical fouls, technical fouls are worth 50pts a piece, and 50pts are enough to change the outcome of most matches.

Richard Wallace 08-03-2014 19:16

Re: 2014 Greater Toronto East Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli (Post 1355463)
...A rule like this should make it so the refs can determine if it was inconsequential to the score or not.

I'm with you on this, Paul.

However, if we want the refs to determine which robot actions are consequential, we have to let them follow the big picture. As it stands now, they are too busy staring at trees (possessions, trusses, catches, goals) and then waiting for their scoring tablet lags to clear. So they miss the forest. That would not matter in the particular case being discussed here since the rule is very clear -- even if many of us agree it is "out of whack".

Being a ref is hard, any year. This year it is harder because they are also part of the real time scoring system. That is the GDC's mistake.


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