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-   -   2014 Waterloo Regional (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127716)

Abhishek R 22-03-2014 22:47

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ErvinI (Post 1362709)
3683 did, I believe that was it (due to 254 winning CVR).

Glad to see them going to Champs, they played great here and at GTR.

Ian Curtis 23-03-2014 00:49

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FRC Director Blog
We’re seeing lots of penalties being called. We’ve modified G40 and G28 to hopefully reduce the frequency of these particular fouls being called, which were the most prevalent. We did not adjust the points associated with these penalties. With all game-play related penalties, we don’t want an alliance to perceive a potential strategic advantage to intentionally ‘taking the foul’. This is carefully considered when assigning point values. Also, regarding G40, the penalty is high because this is a potential safety issue.

Source

Bold for emphasis. Does the GDC assume broken bits don't count for the purposes of the 20" extension rule? Is there precedent for whether they do, or do not count?

Thad House 23-03-2014 00:54

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
I was watching the videos of the finals, and I'm wondering why the 2 seed was blue? I always thought that the higher seed was the red alliance. Looking through the rules, I actually didnt see anything in the elimination rules saying what the rules about this are.


Also, these were some absolutely amazing matches. Such a great alliance and strategy.

Anthony Galea 23-03-2014 01:00

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad House (Post 1362841)
I was watching the videos of the finals, and I'm wondering why the 2 seed was blue? I always thought that the higher seed was the red alliance. Looking through the rules, I actually didnt see anything in the elimination rules saying what the rules about this are.


Also, these were some absolutely amazing matches. Such a great alliance and strategy.

The top alliance in the bracket is red, not seed. So because of that, this is the bumpers per round:

1: R R R
2: R R B
3: R B B
4: R B R
5: B B R
6: B B B
7: B R B
8: B R R

Bongle 23-03-2014 07:44

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad House (Post 1362841)
I was watching the videos of the finals, and I'm wondering why the 2 seed was blue? I always thought that the higher seed was the red alliance. Looking through the rules, I actually didnt see anything in the elimination rules saying what the rules about this are.


Also, these were some absolutely amazing matches. Such a great alliance and strategy.

You can also think of it as the highest-seed alliance that each alliance has defeated to that point.

The winner of 3683 (winner of 4v5) vs 4039 (winner of 1v8) will either be or have defeated the #1 alliance, so they get the red bumpers to signify their fearsomeness.

john.hobbins 23-03-2014 11:15

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Not 100% sure about this, but I did take lengthy looks at 1114's antennae over the last two regionals and know that one purpose is to secure the shooting mechanism while manually transporting the robot on/off the field. Basically it stabilizes the shooting mechanism by clipping them on to the side of the claw shooter which keeps it steady while moving the robot when it is not in a match. They are also hinged at the bottom and perhaps the hinged portion released and dropped down (meaning it was not actually broken, but just in an undesirable position?) which resulted in the penalty. Too bad either way as no one wants to see matches determined this way. That 1114 robot is one heck of a beautiful machine...

Karthik 23-03-2014 11:20

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by john.hobbins (Post 1362954)
They are also hinged at the bottom and perhaps the hinged portion released and dropped down (meaning it was not actually broken, but just in an undesirable position?) which resulted in the penalty.

This is incorrect. It was definitely broken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by john.hobbins (Post 1362954)
Too bad either way as no one wants to see matches determined this way.

You seemed pretty happy about it from your vantage point behind the scorers table.

Cullenwelch88 23-03-2014 11:28

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
I personally don't think anyone would be happy with what has happened. ::safety::

Karthik 23-03-2014 11:38

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Aside from the nonsense during the semifinals, The Waterloo Regional was once again an amazing event. It was great to see our friends from Team 254 make the journey all the way from California, and even better watching their robot dominate on the field. Our team had a lot of fun hanging out with you guys and is looking forward to doing more of it in St. Louis.

Congratulations to Team 2056 on extending their regional win streak to 18. You guys kept improving throughout the weekend, and proved to everyone why doubting 2056 is never a good idea. It's easy to forget how impressive your streak actually is. We're now on eight seasons of 2056 never losing a regional, competing against the top teams in FIRST. Unreal. Also, congratulations to Team 865 on their 3rd ever regional win. It was great seeing you convert from a defensive robot in qualifying to an assisting robots in the eliminations.

A special shoutout goes to Team 3683, on earning their first ever trip champs with a Wildcard generated by Team 254. We love working with you guys both at our practice field and at competition. We're pumped to see you see you show off your robot on the big stage in St. Louis.

Thank you to our alliance partners Team 4039 and 4907. In case you haven't been paying attention, Team 4039 has been the most under the radar team in FIRST over the past two seasons. We really hope you qualify for Champs in NYC, because it would be a shame to see an elite robot as theirs miss out on chance to play with and against the best.

In terms of individuals, three people very close to our team took home some hardware this weekend. Tarjote Chaggar from 2056 won the Volunteer of the Year, Matt Alderson from 4039 won the WFFA and Krysta Peralto from 3161 won her second Dean's List Finalist Award. It was great to see such amazing people earn these prestigious honours.

Finally congratulations to Team 1334 for a long overdue Chairman's Award. I've thought you've deserved a CA for the past 5 years, but for whatever reason you kept getting passed over. It rather satisfying to see you finally get the recognition your program deserves.

BenB 23-03-2014 12:20

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
There seems to be some confusion over the purpose of the wings on our robot, so I thought I would clarify.

They were originally designed to aid with catching. It was conveniently located to serve a dual purpose of supporting our claw in starting configuration while the robot is turned off.

The wings can be in three positions, actuated by a 3/4" bore pneumatic cylinder on each wing. When the cylinder is fully extended, the wings are open and extend ~18" outside our frame perimeter. Due to a compression spring on the cylinder rod, when the cylinders are "retracted", the wings extend ~3" outside our frame perimeter; just enough to allow the starting config hooks to move past them during match play. To put the robot in starting config, we pull the wings in further, compressing the springs around the cylinder rod and hook them onto the claw.

The damage we sustained in SF1-3 sheared the 1/4" steel cylinder rod on one of our wings, which is always completely inside our frame perimeter.

nuclearnerd 23-03-2014 12:55

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BenB (Post 1363006)
The damage we sustained in SF1-3 sheared the 1/4" steel cylinder rod on one of our wings, which is always completely inside our frame perimeter.

Ugh, that's a heck of a way to go. Sorry it ended that way. Hopefully you have better luck in Windsor!

Bongle 23-03-2014 12:55

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
There may be many opinions about Aerial Assist, but I think everyone can agree that there's a lot going on in any given match, which can make it difficult to appreciate each robot's role.

Here's a 4x-slowed-down version of Waterloo's Q64.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITwZ...ature=youtu.be

It's amazing that even at this slow pace, there's so much going on. Including Karthik moonlighting as a field reset person at 3:15.

Robotparent 23-03-2014 18:06

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karthik (Post 1362958)
This is incorrect. It was definitely broken.



You seemed pretty happy about it from your vantage point behind the scorers table.

This is a very disappointing comment coming from you Karthik, you are supposed to be as unbiased as John is. As a person that many of these young people look up to, your comment comes off as neither gracious nor professional and an apology to John should be forthcoming.

Racer26 23-03-2014 18:41

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Robotparent (Post 1363196)
This is a very disappointing comment coming from you Karthik, you are supposed to be as unbiased as John is. As a person that many of these young people look up to, your comment comes off as neither gracious nor professional and an apology to John should be forthcoming.

While I agree Karthik's comment was a bit off-colour, I don't think making that accusation while hiding behind a sock puppet account serves anyone.

I'm fairly certain that his overreaction is nothing more than an artifact of his passion for this program and frustration at watching his team be eliminated from two events by a foul resulting in him getting a bit carried away.

Cullenwelch88 23-03-2014 18:49

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Robotparent (Post 1363196)
This is a very disappointing comment coming from you Karthik, you are supposed to be as unbiased as John is. As a person that many of these young people look up to, your comment comes off as neither gracious nor professional and an apology to John should be forthcoming.

I agree with your comment 100%. Never thought a comment like that would come from Karthik. My kids actually look up to him all the time. What a change in character!

magnets 23-03-2014 18:49

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Robotparent (Post 1363196)
This is a very disappointing comment coming from you Karthik, you are supposed to be as unbiased as John is. As a person that many of these young people look up to, your comment comes off as neither gracious nor professional and an apology to John should be forthcoming.

Team 1114 has every right to be upset about this. If the competition had happened the previous week, then the team breaking off their wing would have gotten a technical foul, which would have let 1114's alliance win. The GDC changed a rule a day before the competition started, and let teams like 1114 be the guinea pigs to test out the rules. The GDC should not be testing their rules, that were released before anybody had any time to think about them, on actual competitions. It makes zero sense that an added rule, designed to prevent and discourage robot damage and destruction, would penalize a team for being the recipient of "game play that results in damage", but the old rule does not.

When people cheer for these results, they're saying to FIRST that they're okay with these kinds of rule changes. Karthik is upset because his team has been the victim of a poorly written foul rule twice this year.

JVN 23-03-2014 19:01

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cullenwelch88 (Post 1363222)
I agree with your comment 100%. Never thought a comment like that would come from Karthik. My kids actually look up to him all the time. What a change in character!

Where is the change in character?
Seems like Karthik just pointed out a discrepancy between a publicly made comment and that individuals public actions.

I guess it would be in better taste for Karthik to smile, nod, and accept the inherent hypocrisy?

Tough calls are made in FRC all the time. Sometimes these calls go our way, sometimes they don't. Winning or Losing our reactions are what matter. I was impressed by my friend Karthik's actions as MC after a call didn't go his team's way. I hope that in a similar situation I would behave as professionally.

Stating distasteful truth out-loud is often seen as distasteful... even when it is still truth.

Kevin_Morris 23-03-2014 19:16

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cullenwelch88 (Post 1363222)
I agree with your comment 100%. Never thought a comment like that would come from Karthik. My kids actually look up to him all the time. What a change in character!

Hmm... I don't see any reason for your kids not to continue looking up to Karthik in that post.

If a single post on an internet forum sways your opinion of someone's character, you will likely find yourself disappointed by many people. Especially a post as mild as that one.

Karthik 23-03-2014 19:17

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Robotparent (Post 1363196)
This is a very disappointing comment coming from you Karthik, you are supposed to be as unbiased as John is.

Actually, I'm not. I'm a proud member of Team 1114 and merely a FIRST volunteer. John on the other hand is a FIRST Regional Director and is held to a much higher standard.

When I'm MCing, part of my job is to be as unbiased as possible. I'd like to think I've done that for the past 10 years. But I guess I'm not doing a good enough job. That's why I made the decision yesterday to never MC again in Ontario. I'm sure this will make your team very happy; whichever anonymous team that is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robotparent (Post 1363196)
As a person that many of these young people look up to, your comment comes off as neither gracious nor professional and an apology to John should be forthcoming.

I stand firmly by my original comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cullenwelch88 (Post 1363222)
I agree with your comment 100%. Never thought a comment like that would come from Karthik. My kids actually look up to him all the time. What a change in character!

I'm sorry to disappoint both of you and your anonymous teams. If these students looked up to me, I would hope it was because of my passion, my fire, and my unwavering belief that people should stand up against hypocrisy and for what they believe in. To any of those I let down, I do apologize. It was never my intent to disappoint you. I'm sorry.

George Nishimura 23-03-2014 19:19

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by magnets (Post 1363223)
Team 1114 has every right to be upset about this. If the competition had happened the previous week, then the team breaking off their wing would have gotten a technical foul, which would have let 1114's alliance win. The GDC changed a rule a day before the competition started, and let teams like 1114 be the guinea pigs to test out the rules. The GDC should not be testing their rules, that were released before anybody had any time to think about them, on actual competitions. It makes zero sense that an added rule, designed to prevent and discourage robot damage and destruction, would penalize a team for being the recipient of "game play that results in damage", but the old rule does not.

I would like to interject here:

I don't think the issue has anything to do with the fact that 1241 were not given a technical foul. I personally believe they didn't deserve a 50pt penalty (nor any).

The issue is also not that the rule update was put out on a Thursday instead of a Tuesday. I believe everyone at the regional was aware of the new rules. It's also misleading to use the word 'guinea pigs', unless you consider every team competing at an event after a Tuesday rule update a 'guinea pig'. Rule updates exist because the GDC are not ominiscient - teams design, build, play in more imaginative ways than they could possibly have prepared for. (On a side point, I am curious as to how else you would 'test the rules'?)

The update to G27 has helped turned this game from Aerial Assault back to Aerial Assist, as highlighted by some great play at Waterloo.

The real issue is G24. I do not believe the wording of this rule matches the intent. At least, I do not believe it was GDC's intent to punish teams for violating this rule if it was forced inadvertedly from damage by another robot. Especially as it was wholly inconsequential to the outcome of the match.

The tragedy was that 1114 were punished, not that 1241 were not penalized enough.

EDIT: On second reading, I realize I may have mis-interpreted your point. I agree that the rules are wrong and I agree that the rule update did indadvertedly create this ruling, but I want to emphasise that the issue was that the rule update did not change G24, not that it changed G27/G28.

dodar 23-03-2014 19:20

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
I'm kinda of curious as to where everyone is reading the malice of Karthik's words? His post seemed perfectly fine.

cadandcookies 23-03-2014 19:27

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Apparently I can't give anymore reputation to Karthik, so I'll actually have to post instead (what a shame, isn't it?).

Maybe all you Ontario people are seeing this differently, but what I'm seeing as a remote observer is Ontario losing one of the best emcees in FIRST over how the community is acting.

That's a sad, sad thing to see.

Karthik: if you aren't going to be emceeing in Ontario again, feel free to come on over to Minnesota some time. We'd love to have you and your enthusiasm.

Navid Shafa 23-03-2014 19:31

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cadandcookies (Post 1363267)
Maybe all you Ontario people are seeing this differently, but what I'm seeing as a remote observer is Ontario losing one of the best emcees in FIRST over how the community is acting.

Seconded. Their loss.

plnyyanks 23-03-2014 19:32

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karthik (Post 1363254)
That's why I made the decision yesterday to never MC again in Ontario.

As an outsider - that's terrible, Ontario is losing a great emcee with this. Your user tag "achievement through enthusiasm;" you and 1114 do both of those things very well and its a shame things like this have to happen.

I'm sure NEFIRST would love to have you, if you want to continue emceeing and ever venture stateside.

wireties 23-03-2014 19:48

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karthik (Post 1363254)
That's why I made the decision yesterday to never MC again in Ontario.

The students and the young mentors on 1296 are quoting "Karthik" all the time. It is like Karthik sits in on all our design discussions (useful since we have no ME mentors). I'm so busy outside of FIRST I rarely get time to watch any other teams but I made a point of catching Waterloo Friday and part of Saturday. I thoroughly enjoyed Karthik's MC-ing (is that a word?). It is nice to have a guy/girl who really knows robots and the game rules doing running color commentary. Karthik's dialogue was entertaining and informative.

It seems wrong to call Karthik out for one emotional (and I think understandable) reaction. I miss the early days of the internet when correct spelling was optional and it was understood that it is difficult/impossible to convey emotion in ASCII.

So - I don't know ya but your annual Waterloo act will be missed!

RallyJeff 23-03-2014 20:00

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karthik (Post 1363254)
When I'm MCing, part of my job is to be as unbiased as possible. I'd like to think I've done that for the past 10 years. But I guess I'm not doing a good enough job. That's why I made the decision yesterday to never MC again in Ontario. I'm sure this will make your team very happy; whichever anonymous team that is.

Karthik, I hope you reconsider.

I wasn't in Waterloo. Everything I've heard about it came nth-hand, so I don't know what exactly went on, but I do know that both you and John have done a tremendous amount of work to make FIRST grow and thrive in Ontario. I have great respect for both of you. I sincerely hope that whatever the issues are between you, they can be resolved.

You've done an amazing job as an MC. Your energy and passion are contagious, and I know that you've had a huge positive impact on countless kids.

... and on me, too. Looking back, I think that the attitude I saw you express toward FIRST at my first few events was a big part of what made me realize just how important FIRST is, which has informed my approach first to robot inspection and now to refereeing.

If you want to talk privately, feel free to message me on Facebook. I just wanted to say this publicly so that you and everyone else knows that the FIRST community in Ontario appreciates you and thinks you've done an awesome job.

magnets 23-03-2014 20:01

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cadandcookies (Post 1363267)
Maybe all you Ontario people are seeing this differently, but what I'm seeing as a remote observer is Ontario losing one of the best emcees in FIRST over how the community is acting.

That's a sad, sad thing to see.

I'm with you completely. Karthik is probably the most influential team mentor I know. He's a member of a Hall of Fame team that also happens to be one of the most competitive, yet helpful, teams I've ever seen. His strategy presentations are watched by our team members each year, and are always referenced during brainstorming. It's a terrible shame that, IMO, the best MC in FIRST feels that he needs to step down because of how the community is reacting.

Abhishek R 23-03-2014 20:04

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RallyJeff (Post 1363301)
Karthik, I hope you reconsider.

I wasn't in Waterloo. Everything I've heard about it came nth-hand, so I don't know what exactly went on, but I do know that both you and John have done a tremendous amount of work to make FIRST grow and thrive in Ontario. I have great respect for both of you. I sincerely hope that whatever the issues are between you, they can be resolved.

You've done an amazing job as an MC. Your energy and passion are contagious, and I know that you've had a huge positive impact on countless kids.

I agree. I wouldn't let this one incident/regional/season hang over you, 1114 is and will still continue to perform as they always do all the way through Champs and afterwards.

FIRST_Parent 23-03-2014 20:13

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karthik (Post 1363254)
Actually, I'm not. I'm a proud member of Team 1114 and merely a FIRST volunteer. John on the other hand is a FIRST Regional Director and is held to a much higher standard.

When I'm MCing, part of my job is to be as unbiased as possible. I'd like to think I've done that for the past 10 years. But I guess I'm not doing a good enough job. That's why I made the decision yesterday to never MC again in Ontario. I'm sure this will make your team very happy; whichever anonymous team that is.



I stand firmly by my original comment.



I'm sorry to disappoint both of you and your anonymous teams. If these students looked up to me, I would hope it was because of my passion, my fire, and my unwavering belief that people should stand up against hypocrisy and for what they believe in. To any of those I let down, I do apologize. It was never my intent to disappoint you. I'm sorry.

This is a sad day for First Robotics in Ontario, and First for the entire organization, if you hold true to this decision. Karthik, you have been the focal point and visual point of First in Canada, not only as a solid mentor of 1114, but as a spot light in Ontario Regional competitions as an extraordinary emcee and amazing knowledgeable presence. I know for a fact that you have "inspired" and "encouraged" countless young First enthusiast's (my son included) to go beyond the gracious professionalism that First encourages. Don't let this one criticism stop you from what you have been doing for the past countless years you have dedicated to becoming the "Karthik" we all know and expect, and love. Everyone, and I do mean everyone is entitled to an opinion, good, bad, or indifferent. I would whole heartedly ask you to reconsider your decision not to represent First as an extraordinary representative of First.

FIRST_Parent.

Yipyapper 23-03-2014 20:23

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by magnets (Post 1363304)
I'm with you completely. Karthik is probably the most influential team mentor I know. He's a member of a Hall of Fame team that also happens to be one of the most competitive, yet helpful, teams I've ever seen. His strategy presentations are watched by our team members each year, and are always referenced during brainstorming. It's a terrible shame that, IMO, the best MC in FIRST feels that he needs to step down because of how the community is reacting.

That and he was a Woodie Flowers finalist in 2005(?) or some year around there. Just more fuel to showcase his influence as a team mentor and a valuable member of the FIRST community.

Andy Grady 23-03-2014 20:25

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by plnyyanks (Post 1363270)
As an outsider - that's terrible, Ontario is losing a great emcee with this. Your user tag "achievement through enthusiasm;" you and 1114 do both of those things very well and its a shame things like this have to happen.

I'm sure NEFIRST would love to have you, if you want to continue emceeing and ever venture stateside.

Karthik,

I hope you think long and hard about not emceeing and reconsider. I've always said you are one of the best emcees in the game, and that hasn't changed. With that said, you are welcome to come visit New England anytime...I'd love to team up with you.

I bring two points....

1. There have been a rash of posts from anonymous people from anonymous teams on these boards lately. This is neither in the spirit of FIRST nor the spirit of the community which so many of us have worked so hard to build. I may say some idiotic things on these boards or in person from time to time, but I say them representing myself and I hide behind nothing. If you have something to say, own up to it. FIRST is about inspiration, not dismantling the character of other people.

2. Game wise, I hope FIRST reconsiders the point values for fouls and TF's before championships. 50 points its too much in the first place, let lone for a foul that resulted in the incidental breaking of a rule due to something beyond a team's control.

That's all I've got....looks like the event was a wild one. I hope that despite the controversy, all parties involved had a great time.

Woolly 23-03-2014 20:31

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
I expect that going 20" outside your frame perimeter as a result of damage to your robot will no longer be a penalty as of this Tuesday. Kind of like how the rules were changed the Tuesday after 4522 lost Arkansas due to breaking the plane of the 1 point goal.

Luckily for 1114, they still get to go to St.Louis because they're a hall of fame team. This is because they've proven themselves to work hard towards achieving the goals of FIRST.

Unfortunately, 4039, 4907, 4522, 4090, and 2992 don't get that same luxury. 4039 gets another chance to qualify in New York City, where I wish them the best of luck. 4522, after the heart-breaker in Arkansas got knocked out in the Semis at KC and as of right now aren't signed up for any more regionals, which means a great robot probably won't be making the trip to St.Louis next month.


As far as tempers and emotions go, it's the nature of the "C" part of FRC.

CLandrum3081 23-03-2014 20:33

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cadandcookies (Post 1363267)
Apparently I can't give anymore reputation to Karthik, so I'll actually have to post instead (what a shame, isn't it?).

Maybe all you Ontario people are seeing this differently, but what I'm seeing as a remote observer is Ontario losing one of the best emcees in FIRST over how the community is acting.

That's a sad, sad thing to see.

Karthik: if you aren't going to be emceeing in Ontario again, feel free to come on over to Minnesota some time. We'd love to have you and your enthusiasm.

+1.

I think we all need to cool down a bit. With all the fun (trust me, this season is still fun, even if its fun quotient is smaller than other years), this year has been frustrating. Week 1 is almost a different game from Week 4, and it won't surprise me if Championships is an ACTUAL dog-and-pony show. 1114 has been victim to two subjective rules that would have been called differently in different regionals, and called without common sense (from my MN vantage point).

I think we expect far too much from anyone from a Hall of Fame team or with a beautiful green reputation bar. We can look up to these people (believe me, I do), but we need to remember we're human. I wouldn't want to be remembered for my immature reaction to the outcome a qualifying match that directly affected our ranking (we lost by three points, and there were three things the referees "didn't see" including the pedestal not lighting up for twenty seconds). Karthik's reaction was honest and mature, and sometimes, that's not easy to take, even when we disagree with it. I wish I could handle disappointment with that much maturity while still managing to express it. We're all human, and HoF teams are made of humans. We should respect each other as such.

I think we need to take a step back. Just because we feel like we're being preyed on by invisible GDC vultures sometimes doesn't give us the right to do the same to others. Open disagreement is fine, but please be mature about it (yes, I realize how hypocritical that sounds when I admit I can be immature, but at least I try not to be). And don't hide behind a puppet account to do it. If you don't want people to know you said something, maybe you shouldn't say it (rare circumstances make anonymity reasonable, but this doesn't).

100% agreed, cadandcookies. Karthik should consider trying MN, though the circumstances causing his departure from MC-ing Ontario would make me less than happy about it. We don't bite, and the cold is somewhat more tolerable. :p

Citrus Dad 23-03-2014 20:47

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer26 (Post 1363218)
While I agree Karthik's comment was a bit off-colour, I don't think making that accusation while hiding behind a sock puppet account serves anyone.

I'm fairly certain that his overreaction is nothing more than an artifact of his passion for this program and frustration at watching his team be eliminated from two events by a foul resulting in him getting a bit carried away.

It appears that you're revealing as much information at RobotParent. Hmmmm.

More importantly, it is not easy participating on Chief Delphi--it is not user friendly. I recently spent 15 minutes trying to figure out how to change my user settings (and I've been working on computers since 1985). Asking a parent who may not be as familiar with various Internet forums in general and Chief Delphi in particular is too harsh. More often than not it's not that someone is trying to hide here, but rather it's too difficult to figure how to reveal themselves. Please withhold your judgement.

pluto7443 23-03-2014 20:47

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bongle (Post 1362681)
Those eliminations were crazy fun to watch, and this was probably the hardest regional I've ever been at. Our robot was temperamental, the qualifying pace was _insane_ (about 30 minutes between matches. Thanks to a replay, we had 11 matches in a single day, and I think one of our alliance partners in our replay had 12 matches in a day), and the field was super-deep. With an average of 5 matches between each robot going up, it meant that most matches contained a veritable powerhouse (254/1114/2056), and due to the crazy depth at Waterloo, the rest of the matches contained a robot that'd be a thread to win any other regional on the planet. 3683, 4678, 781 pre-damage, 1241, 1285, 4917, and probably others I'm forgetting would all be big threats anywhere.

Outsider review: I had a friend come who had never heard of the game (or FIRST), and she thought the game was quite followable and was cheering at all the right spots. Granted these eliminations were among the best I've seen after 11 years going to competitions, so that may have played into it too. The (what felt like) 40-50-minute ref delay after the 4039/3683 semifinal was reviewed as pretty annoying, but overall she thought the game and event was pretty good. Looking at the match results it looks like it was only a 18-minute delay, but it felt _much_ longer.

As a member of 4917, thanks for putting us on that list! This was our first regional as a team. We are going to Windsor, and because we got the rookie all-star, we get to go to World's too! In the elimination rounds in Waterloo, we were captain of the #3 alliance. Looking back, we would have picked 3683 over 1285. Another thing I was wondering about in the rules: would a shot that went over the truss and into a low goal count as an 11 point shot?

Kpchem 23-03-2014 20:53

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pluto7443 (Post 1363339)
Another thing I was wondering about in the rules: would a shot that went over the truss and into a low goal count as an 11 point shot?

No, because of Rule 3.1.4 in the manual

Quote:

2014 Game Manual - Rule 3.1.4

A BALL is considered SCORED in an ALLIANCE’S GOAL if
  • A. a ROBOT causes one (1) of their ALLIANCE’S BALLS to cross completely and remain completely through the opening(s) of one (1) of their ALLIANCE’S GOALS without intervening TEAM member contact
  • B. the ALLIANCE ROBOT last in contact with the BALL was entirely between the TRUSS and their ALLIANCE’S HIGH GOALS, and
  • C. the BALL is not in contact with any ROBOT from that ALLIANCE.

Emphasis mine. If you are making a valid truss shot, your robot is not entirely between the truss and your alliance's high goals.

Good luck at Windsor and Championship!

PayneTrain 23-03-2014 20:57

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Glad to see we are all still playing nice in Ontario.

AdamHeard 23-03-2014 21:04

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karthik (Post 1363254)
I'm sorry to disappoint both of you and your anonymous teams. If these students looked up to me, I would hope it was because of my passion, my fire, and my unwavering belief that people should stand up against hypocrisy and for what they believe in. To any of those I let down, I do apologize. It was never my intent to disappoint you. I'm sorry.

I can respect someone who is willing to make statements that might upset others publicly with their full name and reputation behind it. You've got my support.

Bochek 23-03-2014 21:26

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
While I don't wish to comment on the last few pages of this thread, I did get a few minutes to start running the GoPro footage from the event through handbrake.

Because its the most viewed video of the week, I did Semi Final 1-3 first, you can view it here.

The rest will be available in the next day or so.

nuclearnerd 23-03-2014 21:28

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Woolly (Post 1363331)
Luckily for 1114, they still get to go to St.Louis because they're a hall of fame team...Unfortunately, 4039, 4907, 4522, 4090, and 2992 don't get that same luxury.

4039 would have earned (at least) the wild card to World's had the match not been overturned. I'm still proud of the team's #1 seed, but it is disappointing after playing so well during quals.

OTOH, Team 3583 got the wildcard instead, and they're deserving too - a really great team and bot.

Racer26 23-03-2014 22:21

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad (Post 1363338)
It appears that you're revealing as much information at RobotParent. Hmmmm.

More importantly, it is not easy participating on Chief Delphi--it is not user friendly. I recently spent 15 minutes trying to figure out how to change my user settings (and I've been working on computers since 1985). Asking a parent who may not be as familiar with various Internet forums in general and Chief Delphi in particular is too harsh. More often than not it's not that someone is trying to hide here, but rather it's too difficult to figure how to reveal themselves. Please withhold your judgement.

My profile shows no team affiliation because I currently don't have one. As you can see from my post count, rookie year, and reputation bar, I'm no sock puppet.

I was on a team earlier in the 2014 season, but due to a post I made in frustration a few weeks ago, not unlike Karthik's post, I'm no longer working with them.

LeelandS 23-03-2014 22:23

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Goodness gracious. It's incredible how harshly people judge your words when you're a "celebrity". I wish I could say I have a place to speak on this matter, as it seems very pressing, but I was neither at nor do I have a vested interest in the results of Waterloo, amazing regional it was.

That said, I do find the backlash at Karthik for him posting his personal views about Waterloo absolutely disgusting. First of all, if any person in all of FIRST Canada should be allowed to express frustration, I would vote Karthik. Karthik, a man who dedicates countless hours to helping build FIRST Canada as a whole, as well as being a mentor of a team who has served as inspiration for teams worldwide for years. The fact that Karthik often does not express his feelings on these things publicly is just a testament to the kind of man he is.

Secondly, Karthik is a human being, just like every single one of us, and his views are his own. There is no expectation of Karthik to be unbiased; he very proudly represents himself as a part of 1114 and if you've ever actually worked with him at competition (which is rare, considering all the work he does Emceeing), you can tell he takes the competition of our organization very seriously. So for 1114 to be brought down in the manner they were, it's natural for him to feel frustrated; every other one of us would be. And guess what? He is absolutely entitled to, A) Have those feelings and B) Express them as he sees fit. As a matter of fact, I'd bet Karthik's expressions were more well-mannered and respectful than 90% of any of our's would be.

At the end of the day, Karthik is still a great role model. Hands down. He is a dedicated, professional participant in our program. I wish I could be more like him. And I'm a mentor; most students would find Karthik an even greater inspiration. Let me tell you, this guy is what FIRST is about. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't know him.

I know Karthik doesn't need defending or justification for his statements. While he cares a great deal for the FIRST Community, he is steadfast in his views and I would bet the naysayers aren't getting to him at all. I am defending him because I believe Karthik has every right to what he is feeling and has no reason to be judged because he is expressing his frustration.

On an unrelated note. Karthik's decision to no longer emcee in Ontario is very heartbreaking, coming from a non-Canadian FRC Participant. He's been in the spotlight for so long now; that said, it's a great opportunity for a new emcee to step up. I look forward to seeing their work.

On an unrelated unrelated note. Rochester is a lovely non-Ontario city to emcee in. Just saying.

dodar 23-03-2014 22:26

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LeelandS (Post 1363446)
On an unrelated unrelated note. Rochester is a lovely non-Ontario city to emcee in. Just saying.

Orlando is a tad bit warmer that week of the year. :p

Woolly 23-03-2014 22:38

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dodar (Post 1363449)
Orlando is a tad bit warmer that week of the year. :p

Kansas City has barbecue.

dodar 23-03-2014 22:41

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Woolly (Post 1363463)
Kansas City has barbecue.

....we do too.....lol KC is alot more known for it than Orlando though.

stefanp 23-03-2014 23:07

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
This was one of the greatest regionals to watch live... Everything was just amazing about the competition. The caliber of play was amazing, the MCing was extraordinary, the field reset crew was SO fast, the audience was great! Just watching this regional inspired me to try to get my team to this same caliber. It was amazing recognizing so many teams and people that you saw in videos at this regional. A shame fouls had such a large impact on eliminations and there were some technical problems in the last match of the finals.

Watching this regional as a rookie makes you want to come here next year and compete with the best of teams. Also three ball hot goal auto by the poofs was something else to watch in real life.

Billfred 23-03-2014 23:30

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stefanp (Post 1363493)
This was one of the greatest regionals to watch live... Everything was just amazing about the competition. The caliber of play was amazing, the MCing was extraordinary, the field reset crew was SO fast, the audience was great! Just watching this regional inspired me to try to get my team to this same caliber. It was amazing recognizing so many teams and people that you saw in videos at this regional. A shame fouls had such a large impact on eliminations and there were some technical problems in the last match of the finals.

Watching this regional as a rookie makes you want to come here next year and compete with the best of teams. Also three ball hot goal auto by the poofs was something else to watch in real life.

I'm going to underscore this here. A positive first-ever regional experience--Palmetto 2004--is one of the things that got me hooked on FRC way back as a student on 1293. Even when I've been with veteran teams, well-run events have had newbie students rearranging plans to attend the next event of the season.

Waterloo's pre-event hype had me plugging my laptop into my TV for the first time for elimination rounds, but as I watched the whole of the event I saw what really looked like a well-operating machine, reset to announcing fouls. No matter how one feels about the game or what transpired, Waterloo came across as running a tight ship.

Best of luck in North Bay!

Zebra_Fact_Man 24-03-2014 01:31

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
I suppose if I had to choose the lesser of two (three) evils, I'd rather have a) a game where penalties are called correctly that I disagree with than b) penalties are called incorrectly, or c) FMS flips individual teams the bird, like in 2012.

Unfortunately, some of the latter two points have also been happening this year too, though, with lessening frequency as of late.

Grim Tuesday 24-03-2014 02:28

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LeelandS (Post 1363446)
On an unrelated unrelated note. Rochester is a lovely non-Ontario city to emcee in. Just saying.

In my first FLR, Steve did an excellent job Emceeing. I'd love to see a switcheroo and have some Canada back in Rochester! Karthik+JonDarr is my dream team, with maybe a bit of Angry Eric mixed in, he has only been getting better and better!

fox46 24-03-2014 10:28

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
The self-righteous trolls of CD strike again.

I must applaud you; you people who art more gracious than me. It takes a certain kind of person to stand up on a soapbox and berate someone who has done so much good in this community for expressing their thoughts and for this I am truly in awe of you.

I have seen many people on this site be pulled apart by these most gracious trolls. You berate someone for posting something negative or that deviates from the norm about something or other. It's become so bad here that it's nearly impossible to post any kind of criticism on this forum. You have driven away so many knowledgeable and educated people and are slowly watering this place down to nothing more than a pink fuzzy spot on the internet to post your robot pictures and pat each other on the back.

It is impossible to live life by ignoring every distasteful situation or negative occurrence. It's just not possible. To try and do so is to look at the world with blinders on. The fact that you're still trying to protect your children from this fact of life is just bad parenting. They need to know that not everyone thinks the same way they do and not everything is happy and good. In life, people have opinions. Good or bad, their thoughts are their own and it is NONE of your business to slap their hand and tell them otherwise. CD is supposed to be a place for these discussions. Squelching anything that doesn't agree with the general consensus should be unacceptable. It is important to have other ways of looking at things and have an open mind and acknowledge the situations that might not be all rainbows and butterflies.

Karthik- I understand your decisions and although I'm going to miss your awesome introductions, I support you in whatever your choices may be. We will always have a spare hat for you!

KeeganP 24-03-2014 10:37

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fox46 (Post 1363729)
The self-righteous trolls of CD strike again.

I must applaud you; you people who art more gracious than me. It takes a certain kind of person to stand up on a soapbox and berate someone who has done so much good in this community for expressing their thoughts and for this I am truly in awe of you.

I have seen many people on this site be pulled apart by these most gracious trolls. You berate someone for posting something negative or that deviates from the norm about something or other. It's become so bad here that it's nearly impossible to post any kind of criticism on this forum. You have driven away so many knowledgeable and educated people and are slowly watering this place down to nothing more than a pink fuzzy spot on the internet to post your robot pictures and pat each other on the back.

It is impossible to live life by ignoring every distasteful situation or negative occurrence. It's just not possible. To try and do so is to look at the world with blinders on. The fact that you're still trying to protect your children from this fact of life is just bad parenting. They need to know that not everyone thinks the same way they do and not everything is happy and good. In life, people have opinions. Good or bad, their thoughts are their own and it is NONE of your business to slap their hand and tell them otherwise. CD is supposed to be a place for these discussions. Squelching anything that doesn't agree with the general consensus should be unacceptable. It is important to have other ways of looking at things and have an open mind and acknowledge the situations that might not be all rainbows and butterflies.

Karthik- I understand your decisions and although I'm going to miss your awesome introductions, I support you in whatever your choices may be. We will always have a spare hat for you!

^This. Very, very well said.

On the topic of Waterloo itself, I throughly enjoyed watching all of the matches that I had the chance to -- some truly amazing and inspiring teams built simply incredibly machines. It was a show to watch and I was compelled to smile just watching the matches from my desk. The level of competition was simply amazing. Thank you to all involved who made it possible for those of us at home to participate and enjoy.

Sharven 24-03-2014 12:00

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
I just wanted to say a huge thank you to all the volunteers and staff that made this event so great.

Referees, you guys have an incredibly tough job this year. I don't think anyone can doubt how seriously you take your job and how much you guys wanted to ensure the calls were made correctly. This was evident when we saw just how long you spend deliberating the calls in Semis 1-3.

Field reset, I am honestly amazed by the level of skill you guys possessed. The crew was always aware as to whom and where to get the ball back to. The regional couldn't have asked for a better field reset crew than what we had this past weekend.

Queuing was awesome. They got the teams out on the field on time so that we could follow the match schedule quite closely and they had a great system for getting robots on and off the field. It was flawless.

The inspectors were incredible. I don't know how they got everyone fully inspected by the end of Thursday. They did a great job, the teams were safe, we didn't have many robots being damaged or falling apart in the middle of the field so let that attest to the quality of inspectors and teams at the Waterloo regional. It easily shows just how much Tarjote does and how deserving of the Volunteer of the Year award he is.

Scorekeepers, huge shout out to you. You guys were amazing. You were never the people we were waiting for. You were ready to start the match before anyone else, and you knew exactly what you were doing. Your timing was flawless with the MC and that really added to the quality of the event.

Regional Committee and everyone else behind the scenes to make the regional as great as it was, THANK YOU. I don't think people often say thank you to you guys enough. You do all the planning for events like these and get things sorted out far in advance.

We had some of the best teams in FIRST. You were very respectful throughout the weekend and built some amazing robots. The levels of GP I saw over the weekend were second to none. You guys really brought an amazing regional to life. You were spirited and energetic even in the early hours in the morning. You guys came up with some great match strategies and brought very high levels of play. It's unfortunate that only a handful of teams qualify from this event. I really think there were so many more than that who deserve to go to championships in St. Louis. I wish you the best of luck in your remaining regionals, I'd love to see you guys there.

Parth, Liz, and James; a special thank you for helping out at this event. Having the number of FTA's that we did really added to the ease and flow of everything, from troubleshooting robots to keeping the event on schedule. I can easily say the more FTA's the merrier and you guys were pivotal in making Waterloo as good as it was.

John Hobbins, you are an incredible person. You are an amazing regional director. The expansion of FIRST Canada and the amount of rookies you are helping as well as the quality of these rookies proves that. I can honestly say that working with you is a great pleasure and I'd love to work with you more in the future. I am so very excited to see what you have planned for FIRST Canada in the near future because whatever it is, I know it will be great. You are a volunteer whose level of commitment and skills should be something others strive to one day attain.

Paul Copioli, I have been to the Waterloo regional a couple times and have seen you coach in the past. Your depth of knowledge for the game is truly amazing and it really adds to your ability as an announcer. Hearing you announce the play-by-play made the game easy to understand and follow, and gave many people who may not have spectated the game before a clear picture of what teams were doing and why they were doing it. I thank you again for making the trip up North.

Karthik Kanagasabapathy, you are an awe-inspiring individual. Your ability to MC is not just characterized by your vast knowledge of strategy or your understanding of the game, but also your personality and charisma that drives other people to strive for greatness. You not only helped make 1114 the HoF team it is, but helped others achieve their goals in FIRST and well beyond it. I hope you know that you have my utmost respect and the respect of everyone at the regional. Your MC-ing is the best I have seen. I, as well as everyone else I know, love the way you give detailed history between the competing teams. Knowing what teams’ history inside out in over a decade’s worth of FIRST is a really remarkable feature. I hope I don't see the end of the famous Karthik and Paul duo at Waterloo; it's one of the best parts of the weekend.

Thank you everyone for making the Waterloo regional as great as it could be. I can't wait for what will be in store for next year!

jptn 15-04-2014 14:31

Re: 2014 Waterloo Regional
 
Can't believe it's been almost a month!



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