Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

"just" go to week one or two... What if your local regional is a week 5 regional, and your team doesn't have the extra couple of thousand to travel to a week 1 regional?

Plus, that time between bagging the robot and the start of the week 1 regionals (with the current setup) is pretty important for volunteers. That's the time when the key volunteers can lift their focus from their teams and get all of the prep work done for the regional itself. As an LRI, I can tell you I spend about 6 hours prepping for a regional before I even walk in the doors. That prep work wouldn't be nearly as comprehensive if I had to spend time helping my team build a robot right up to the day we take it to the regional.

And frankly, all this talk of "having to keep working" on a practice robot to stay competitive is complete BS. I know plenty of highly competitive teams that don't have practice robots. Several of the MN teams that made it to semi's or finals in their divisions at champs last year don't have practice robots and didn't utilize their withholding to bring in upgrades. If you feel the need to do that, then do so. But not everyone does, and claiming otherwise is preposterous.

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

Everything but the precut bumper material. That would be easy to take a role into the event and some raw plywood.

Team 610 has not had a practice robot in 2 years.

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

This advantage is absolutely based on strategy, good design, and forethought. Teams that design their robots to be modular, with easily replaceable components that can be quickly switched out if they break, deserve to reap the benefits of designing this way. If you contrast this with teams that "wing" their design and are constantly making last-minute adjustments to things, you'll see a big difference. Why should teams that design with easy maintenance in mind be punished for it? I'm all for the "functionally identical" rule--it encourages better engineering on the part of teams.

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

The flip side is that in a no bag you don't "have to" keep working on the competition robot after the start of regionals. It is precisely the same logic. Under that logic, any arguments about "we need bag day to prevent burn out" go out the window - you can stop at any time, right?

Also, I never said "have to have practice robots" - I said "have to keep working". 8 hours of unbag time a week, plus preparation before and after, is what I meant by "have to".

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

We're allowed to bring in complete fabricated bumpers without counting it against the 45 lb allowance. Not allowing pieces of bumpers would seem to fall into the category of nonsense.

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

I would tend to agree BUT the rules state that you are allowed to bring in completed bumpers for your robot out of the bag. It does not say you can bring in pre fabricated bumper material. The rules allow 45 lb of fabricated material. A simple change in wording could fix that. IF you gave the bumper material to the LRI at the beginning of competition they may be willing to accept as all teams would have equal access to it.

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

Agreed; I am on board with your explanation of the rules as they are written. I meant that it is nonsense from a practical standpoint.

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

There's no limit to the number of bumpers that can be brought in without counting against the withholding allowance. There's no regulation that bumpers brought in must be for your robot, legal, or even assembled. Do bumper parts constitute bumpers?

No? Then what if you duct tape them together such that they resemble bumpers? I'm sure many teams have come into events with illegal bumpers; surely no one would argue that because they're illegal, these teams must count the bumpers against their withholding allowance.

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

Trying to "lawyer" rules won't drag me into a discussion. As far as I am concerned, as an LRI, I will make the call that they are fabricated items. Unless FIRST tells me otherwise that is my stance. I go to training, read and reread the rules, talk with other LRI's and go on weekly conference calls. Different people might make different calls in a certain situation so what I say may have no value at your event.

Is it really that difficult to follow my suggestion to make everything good for everyone?

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

What is the formal appeal process if a team feels that their LRI is interpreting the rules incorrectly?

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

The way the manual exists right now, that's a trick question. Section 5.5.2 Eligibility and Inspection Rules begins with this sentence:

At each event, the Lead ROBOT Inspector (LRI) has final authority on the legality of any COMPONENT, MECHANISM, or ROBOT.

There is no formal appeal.



I think you might be able to satisfy the rules to everyone's liking if you bring in a collection of fully-fabricated corner-wrapping bumper assemblies. Bonus points if you make them reversible from blue to red without requiring them to be removed from the robot.

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

Section 5.5.2 of the Tournament Rules:

Members of the Regional Planning Committee or the Regional Director can't overrule an inspector - please don't appeal to them. As Big Al has famously told a team, "There is no higher authority."

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

From the Glossary of the 2014 FRC Game Manual:

BUMPERS are not considered part of the ROBOT in the definitions provided by FIRST. They are an assembly that attaches to the exterior of the ROBOT. FABRICATED ITEMS are things that are made or modified to be used on the ROBOT, which is a system built for the 2014 game that includes power, communications, control, mobility, and actuation. The BUMPERS provide none of that, as further explained by differentiating between BUMPERs and ROBOTs. Bringing in materials to make bumpers are no different than bringing in team buttons. They are fabricated items, but not FABRICATED ITEMS unless they are designed and used on the ROBOT.

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

Whew, so the T-shirts are safe :D

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

That is also how I see the rules. I had my kids build 3 sets of corner bumper assemblies for Dallas this weekend. We'll be giving them to the inspection station when we arrive. I'd rather do it in my shop then have to find a way to do build them at an event.