Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

I can't imagine wanting to compete against a team that wants it that bad. I mean yeah if you needed the build time cause of some absolute tragedy that is one thing (two if you include the tragedy) but just wow. Can't tell if this is an oversight or intentional.

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

While I'm not going to endorse the suggestion that a head ref would lie to a team, the FTA is a good person to turn to if you suspect a field issue is up.

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

I feel like head ref's aren't exactly nobodies and are appointed carefully by FIRST. That being said a head ref is there to represent FIRST so challenging a head ref is challenging FIRST's decision to appoint them, although I suppose things slip through the cracks.

Now that I think about it more if you can just constantly challenge the game rules you can delay forever....

GAH gotta stop the thinking. This is why its called First Robotics Competition and not First Robotics Games cause games are generally more in line with having fun and less about winning.

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

Although Head Refs have ultimate power in the arena, they are appointed by the regional planning committee. Most Head Refs we've had have been wonderful (Dante from Fingerlakes is our teams gold standard) but we've also had bad experiences such as the ref from Buckeye last year who was downright abusive to people.

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

It's not insane. You wouldn't want a baseball player calling up the commishiner (sp?) because of a questionable called strike.

Like in baseball, FIRST needs someone with 'final authority' at the competition. For onfield issues, thats the head referee. To get someone to overrule the head ref only erodes his authority.

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

I constantly tell people when we have a bad call that "There are no bad refs only bad calls." I know that isn't true because I have seen and heard of examples of bad refs but I still encourage this mentality.

Shout out to all staff and volunteers at events who step up and make those tough calls.

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

That's not analogous at all. A strike is a quick decision based on objective criteria observed in nearly instant real time. An rules interpretation could just be flat out wrong or addressed in the Q&A.

What are the consequences of having a head ref's "authority eroded" by being able to call HQ? How will this change any aspect of their job?

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

It is analogous. Think <G40>

Consider how it would look if an 'elite' team called HQ and got a ruling reversed. I can hear the howls of favortism already.

The head ref must have absolute authority over the game or his position will lose all integrity.

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

Public is already howling when head ref's call favors "elite" team (even when the call is right!) I think at Southfield event public booed! I did not believe I heard it right, need confirmation from others that indeed that was a boo! Too bad...need to cut some slack for head refs. I firmly believe (and want to continue) that head refs don't show favoritism! or just that all head refs are not same!

Re: Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11
 

How is that any different than an elite team appealing a normal ref's call to the Head Ref? At all? Even slightly? Why is favoritism assumed to be more likely from FIRST HQ than from a local referee, who might actually have ties to a local team?

This argument still doesn't make any sense to me. It's like saying a booth review ruins the integrity of NFL field referees. It's like saying an appeals court ruins the integrity of a lower court. It is possible for someone to have authority if a decision is reviewable by someone higher. I don't honestly get how "integrity" changes at all - if anything, the ref has more integrity as they *couldn't* get away with a favoritist call if they wanted to (not that I assume any head ref would).

The only thing this will result in is more accurate calls, and maybe a little wasted time. How will anything about the event change if the Head Ref can be overturned? I don't see any actual lasting consequence here.