Re: Unscheduled Team Update: 3-20-2014
 

But build your blocker really weak-like and when an offensive robot tries to push you out of the way, let it break! Draw a foul just like in basketball!

Re: Unscheduled Team Update: 3-20-2014
 

Yeah, except that the ramming seems to be pretty effective when most teams can barely play the game due to having two "defenders"* on them.



*Defenders in this case can read as "People beating them mercilessly"

Re: Unscheduled Team Update: 3-20-2014
 

If somebody comes flying down the field and hits my (theoretically [but legal!]) entirely Styrofoam robot, it is their fault when my poor design decisions causes my robot to disintegrate?

How about last year, when running cycles we hit a robot playing defense on us, and knocked all 4 of their bumpers off (breaking off the bumper mounts, what little they were). That is my fault also?

Re: Unscheduled Team Update: 3-20-2014
 

The GDC developed a game with a slightly similar flow to soccer, hockey, and basketball. Defense is extremely important in all of these sports.

However, one on one robot ramming is something that a team should be prepared for in a game like this, and if the team didn't build a robust enough robot for it. They did a "bad" job.

If you really wanted to give scoring teams a break then I would propose the fouling of double teaming - or double ramming. Not fouling all ramming completely. I'm glad I don't have to have my team play again till champs. By then this whole thing better be sorted.

Re: Unscheduled Team Update: 3-20-2014
 

There are two more robots on your alliance, too. What are they doing?

Re: Unscheduled Team Update: 3-20-2014
 

They should be playing defense. If you have your two alliance partners come down to set picks for you on both defenders, it's just going to be a massive cluster of robots that's impossible to move in.

Re: Unscheduled Team Update: 3-20-2014
 

Reminds me of Rack 'n Roll. Semifinal matches, Lone Star Regional. Immediately out of autonomous, the robot driver commands the robot to traverse the length of the field faster than the opposing alliance can grab their sticks, and smashes into an opposing robot so hard 418's battery comes flying out of it, and the opposing robot just dies on the field right there. We drew a yellow card that match, but no other penalty.

And Aim High, Finals 1-2 at Lone Star Regional. 118 in autonomous moves to a repeated spot on the field, a spot that 418 was specifically aimed for. As soon as 118 is in position and begins calibrating its shooter, 418 traverses the field (still in auto) and hits 118 so hard that 118 spins almost 118 degrees on the field and the entire auditorium screams, "OUCH!". No penalty, no card.

Today we'd probably lose those matches due to penalties. :)

-Danny

Re: Unscheduled Team Update: 3-20-2014
 

John, we did build for robot on robot ramming. Or multiple robot on us ramming. The frame can take it no problem. It just makes for a really boring game due to the lack of other activities for teams to do if they aren't the most capable bot on the alliance. Ramming defense is easy whereas running an effective pick is dang near impossible. Coupled with the fact that very few teams during quals are willing to be relegated to that as they all want to show their stuff for picking but it's not practical to let a team that is 0 for 8 from the floor try to shoot. But then you have to deal with them telling you that you're "Not GP"

Scuse me, I'll go off and be a grumpy old man in the corner.


Off hand, the same thing to my opponent because if I have to deal with it so do they. Course, this makes for a boring game from an audience perspective. But that's not important... Oh wait, culture change is the entire point of FIRST. (In before I'm told to see the bigger picture)

Re: Unscheduled Team Update: 3-20-2014
 

What does this even mean?

Is there a defensive strategy for dealing with scoring robots that doesn't involve "repeated, aggressive ramming" with the intent to "inhibit" the other robot? What does "aggressive" mean in this context? Re: "high-speed," does this mean if we geared our robot to move quickly we have to be extra-careful about playing defense? What would constitute a legal defensive strategy, and what would be illegal?

If this rule makes bumper-to-bumper contact under normal conditions illegal if one robot happens to break, then it is a stupid rule. There are already rules against intentional tipping, grappling, and damage outside of the bumper zone; these account for ~90% of the damage I saw at the NC regional. If a team's robot can't withstand a hard hit on their bumpers, then they did not design their robot properly.

Re: Unscheduled Team Update: 3-20-2014
 

The big problem I see is the definition of "high speed", "repetitive" and "aggressive" in real-time. I would hate to be a referee. Or a victim.

Re: Unscheduled Team Update: 3-20-2014
 

I'm interested in seeing how refs call this one. Sorry week 4 teams, you're my guinea pigs.

Re: Unscheduled Team Update: 3-20-2014
 

There are two questions to ask:
1. What is the GDC's intent?
2. Did they succeed at accomplishing that intent?

I'm surprised how many people in this thread seem to have drastically different assumptions about #1 than me. Maybe I'm misreading the GDC.

Re: Unscheduled Team Update: 3-20-2014
 

This is not Battlebots - I shouldn't have to design a robot for 6G of impact. Try playing defense that doesn't rely on bodychecking your opponents.

Re: Unscheduled Team Update: 3-20-2014
 

I'll chime in after I've actually seen a weekend of matches played under these rules. I'm hoping for the best.

Re: Unscheduled Team Update: 3-20-2014
 

I wonder what the definition of 'High Speed' is, in this context.

I would encourage the GDC to establish an actual speed limit. Make it a inspection item or just honor system. As is I have no idea how a team of refs is going to fairly enforce the 'high speed ramming' aspect of this, never mind the rest of the update.