Re: 301 points! and could have done more
 

Not sure how this match was exciting/inspiring/etc.

That is the most boring finals match I can think of since 2009...and at least then there was some drama of when a team would get pinned and get their trailer loaded up.

I've seen practice matches that were a lot more exciting.

Re: 301 points! and could have done more
 

Understandable.

One of our new students pointed out that he was really confused when another student was so excited about old match videos that were clearly boring. His perception changed dramatically over the weekend, of course.

I suppose you just have to have been there.

Congratulations on the win, by the way!

Re: 301 points! and could have done more
 

Like many things in FIRST the process is important. I have no problem with an alliance that decides their best chance at winning is pure offence. I don't agree with the practice of making arrangements with opponents to achieve a secondary objective. The scores were much higher but the change in point differential between matches was 3.

You are allowed to disagree but the success of Cory's team is no reason to dismiss his opinion.

Re: 301 points! and could have done more
 

i wouldn't call 2 bots sitting doing nothing at least half of the match as "Everything", but that's just my opinion apparently.
On a side note, i am completely not OK with what went down. It's not to the spirit of FIRST. (again, my opinion)

Re: 301 points! and could have done more
 

Are these Forbes folks going to have to force out another team update? :rolleyes:

Re: 301 points! and could have done more
 

I was thinking about writing up a detailed story about what "went down"...but my guess is I'd be wasting my time.

The gist of it is, that it was never about the money. The money was a catalyst for a paradigm shift, and that paradigm shift allowed us to get almost twice as many points in our last finals match, compared to our first finals match. Yes, by having two robots sitting still. There is more than one way to play a game to win.

If that bothers you, I'm sorry. It didn't seem to bother the teams involved, nor the thousands of people watching it unfold before them.

Re: 301 points! and could have done more
 

Frankly I think you captured what the GDC had originally believed this game would be - less defense and more offense. It makes those 50 point penalties a little more palatable when you're scoring 300 points.

It certainly isn't the first time that the GDC has been a little surprised in what we've done to a game (re: minibot speed in 2011).

Re: 301 points! and could have done more
 

As long as everyone involved consented to this plan, I don't see what the problem is.

Congrats to the winning alliance! I would expect to see slightly more defense played at the World Championship, though :)

Re: 301 points! and could have done more
 

Remember, every team agreed to not play defense in that one finals match. You can expect the Falcons, CocoNuts, and Plasma to do their best in every match they play. We know they always have, and always will.

We asked all teams if they would be willing to not play defense in our first (and only the first) QF match, but one team dissented, so we played "normal". Those were three very rough matches!

If nothing else, at least a few people might be looking a the game a little differently today, than they were last week. I'll let you decide if that's a good thing or not.

Re: 301 points! and could have done more
 

I would have asked for some sort of approval from HQ prior to this, team consent is one thing, but my worry is the McDonald's French Fry effect - keeping every event the same.


Edit: Overall, I like the idea - I just want to make sure it was executed correctly with the appropriate parties involved.

Re: 301 points! and could have done more
 

Where can I get HQ's phone number so I can ask them about every strategy?

Re: 301 points! and could have done more
 

I don't see much wrong with six teams choosing not to play defense for one match. It's their match, their regional, they can do whatever they want. They are still clearly trying to win the match, and that's what matters "ethically".

What this match proved to me is that this game just isn't exciting. When there is no defense, four robots are literally standing around doing nothing. At other events, these teams play defense, which makes the offensive play look worse and grittier with a few notable exceptions. Perhaps excluding matches where the best teams in the world are both playing offense and some defense, this game isn't going to be very interesting to watch in most cases.

Re: 301 points! and could have done more
 

While I disagree with the no defense match personally, I don't think this would be necessary. There is no rule against playing no defense. They made that choice and really there's nothing FIRST could have done to stop them. There is no "right way" to play this game, you make the game what you want. And while I personally don't like it, I have to respect the fact that all six teams invved wanted to play this way.

Re: 301 points! and could have done more
 

Thinking outside of the box.
Challenging the status quo.
Unique perspective.

That is the history of 842. That may be why they receive so much attention in and outside of the FIRST community.

The Coconuts, 2486, have yet to be awarded the championship Chairman's award, but they sure have a most impressive regional Chairman trophies.

All but one team at the Arizona regional were Arizona teams. Many have a long history of working together... Kinda one big 50 member family.

As a result, it is not too surprising to see something unique, innovative and controversial arise when these teams strategize.

What they did was legal, ethical in the judgement of the six participating teams and very entertaining to the audience, including officials from Go Daddy and other potential supporters of FIRST.

I think it was a smart move. At least it gave us something to think about and challenge our conventional views on why we are involved in FIRST.

Re: 301 points! and could have done more
 

Thank you Allan for painting the picture of what transpired in AZ so perfectly. It is amazing to see the controversy from what started as a simple post. I understand where people opposed to what we did are coming from, but what we did here in AZ seemed very natural and fluid to us. No controversy intended. It was as simple as an opportunity to try a new strategy and all involved took it. We are defending what we did because we feel ( I think I speak for all maybe on this) like we were being passed judgment on and we are simply defending our actions. This situation will most likely not show up at Championships, but it has been a very interesting "experiment" to say the least. To see how people react has been very educational.