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-   -   (NE First) Hartford District Event (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128202)

Paul T. 26-03-2014 08:49
Re: (NE First) Hartford District Event
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmoker (Post 1364996)
No apology necessary! It's hard for a mama bird to see her little chicks fly from the nest, but a proud moment, too. And he was with us last weekend, so we'll give him back to you for Hartford. :)

Fair warning, Jacob's already working on our senior caption Duna to join you guys if she winds up at WPI. We'll do our best to keep funneling them your way. She's a gem, too.
Were happy to have him back and we would love more students like him. Its a bit of temperature shock going from an established team to a growing one. Just a fair warning. but then again in our small team your never just a cog in the machine, your making a big difference every time you come.

JamesCH95 26-03-2014 08:51
Re: (NE First) Hartford District Event
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTbiker105 (Post 1364820)
Myself and some other members from 195 will be in attendance this weekend. With most teams having competed twice already, we look forward to see how well everybody competes.
Would you mind lending some insightful guidance to those of us who are a little light on scouting personnel?

CTbiker105 26-03-2014 08:58
Re: (NE First) Hartford District Event
 
Absolutely. We're looking to try out a few things with our own scouting system, and we would be more than happy to help you guys out.

who716 26-03-2014 09:05
Re: (NE First) Hartford District Event
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul T. (Post 1364999)
i have a slightly different view, the good (or above average) teams seem to be the ones who do multiple regional, if you take all those teams out your left with a few above average teams, some average and some below average. making it easier to get those points for an average or below average team. It makes it really easy for a slightly above average team to steal the show (look at unh). On the other hand if the powerhouses get together in a district that counts they hurt each other (look at Groton). Having those teams around at our second events makes t fair for the teams that had to compete against them at there districts. otherwise we would have an easier time. Personally i don't think were going to see another groton style event until week 4 next year and it will be full of 3rd event teams. too many good teams got burnt point wise to want to do that again. We want to do a week 1 or 2 new Hampshire event, WPI (our home event) then a stacked event. we'll get our points and then go as hard as possible in preparation for the district championship.
Although I do see your point behind this, I see the loss to be much greater then what a team would gain. For example a team that has accumulated enough points to attend district championship, is also going to be attending Hartford, therefore if they become #1 seed and make it too the finals and win. That is 46 points that is not being counted, and essentially is taking those points out of play. If a team that has only competed once and lets say did not do the greatest say they have around 10-20 points, those 46 points that could be given to them would be extremely helpful in them making it to Boston. It's one of those scenarios that could essentially keep a team from making it into Boston.

dsmoker 26-03-2014 09:27
Re: (NE First) Hartford District Event
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by who716 (Post 1365010)
Although I do see your point behind this, I see the loss to be much greater then what a team would gain. For example a team that has accumulated enough points to attend district championship, is also going to be attending Hartford, therefore if they become #1 seed and make it too the finals and win. That is 46 points that is not being counted, and essentially is taking those points out of play. If a team that has only competed once and lets say did not do the greatest say they have around 10-20 points, those 46 points that could be given to them would be extremely helpful in them making it to Boston. It's one of those scenarios that could essentially keep a team from making it into Boston.
Okay, I've been biting my tongue here, but as one of the teams that is competing in Hartford and has already qualified for the district championship, I feel compelled to chime in (no big surprise to those who know me) to explain why we decided to do three district events this year.

We're a team of somewhat limited financial resources, and when the district model was announced we saw it as a great benefit to us. Normally, we're able to do one, maybe two (in the past couple of years) regionals. That's it. But with the district model, and three events being in our home state, we could do two events and add a third at very little cost. When we decided to register for all three CT events, we did so NOT KNOWING and WITH NO WAY OF KNOWING that we would qualify for the district championship. Our thought process was, simply, with no way of knowing that, and given the minimal increase in doing the third event ($1,000 registration, since all the events were local for us and the school provides transportation), why not do as many events as possible so our kids can enjoy the fruits of their labors?

So here we stand. Registered. Fee paid. Yet qualified for Boston. What would you suggest we do? Not show up? Forfeit our $1,000, because FIRST isn't going to give it back? Show up and throw matches? Try not to win any awards?

Our view is somewhat different. In fact, at our meeting last night, we were talking about how we would like to actually HELP teams earn qualifying points by helping them win matches. That's the flip side of the coin. It's not just about taking points away from teams, and has NEVER been about that for us. It is also about helping bubble teams earn points that might get them to Boston. If we can do that, for even one team, we'll be happy.

Oh, we've got stuff of our own we want to accomplish in Hartford. We're still tweaking our shooting, adjusting our strategy, wanting to be the best prepared as we can for Boston. And isn't that what it's about?

Stephen.Yanczura 26-03-2014 09:59
Re: (NE First) Hartford District Event
 
Cosigning the post above -

One of the prime benefits of the district model is letting teams of limited resources play more robots.

There are teams of limited resources that, in the old model, could conceivably spend 6+ weeks building, testing and iterating their bot; show up at their one regional (5k$); play 10+/-2 matches and be done for the season. That model needed work.

Every event, every match, every time - play hard, play to win. You make yourself better and can elevate teams around you.

I could also see a case being made for using a third event (after already qualifying for DCMP) to get a backup driveteam or new members some good experience behind the glass.

swootton 26-03-2014 10:08
Re: (NE First) Hartford District Event
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmoker (Post 1365017)
Okay, I've been biting my tongue here, but as one of the teams that is competing in Hartford and has already qualified for the district championship, I feel compelled to chime in (no big surprise to those who know me) to explain why we decided to do three district events this year.

We're a team of somewhat limited financial resources, and when the district model was announced we saw it as a great benefit to us. Normally, we're able to do one, maybe two (in the past couple of years) regionals. That's it. But with the district model, and three events being in our home state, we could do two events and add a third at very little cost. When we decided to register for all three CT events, we did so NOT KNOWING and WITH NO WAY OF KNOWING that we would qualify for the district championship. Our thought process was, simply, with no way of knowing that, and given the minimal increase in doing the third event ($1,000 registration, since all the events were local for us and the school provides transportation), why not do as many events as possible so our kids can enjoy the fruits of their labors?

So here we stand. Registered. Fee paid. Yet qualified for Boston. What would you suggest we do? Not show up? Forfeit our $1,000, because FIRST isn't going to give it back? Show up and throw matches? Try not to win any awards?

Our view is somewhat different. In fact, at our meeting last night, we were talking about how we would like to actually HELP teams earn qualifying points by helping them win matches. That's the flip side of the coin. It's not just about taking points away from teams, and has NEVER been about that for us. It is also about helping bubble teams earn points that might get them to Boston. If we can do that, for even one team, we'll be happy.

Oh, we've got stuff of our own we want to accomplish in Hartford. We're still tweaking our shooting, adjusting our strategy, wanting to be the best prepared as we can for Boston. And isn't that what it's about?
Denise,
You put in words our exact philosophy. We too looked at a third event as a low cost alternative in the new model. We could actually get bumped depending where the points fall. Regardless, like your team we want to help other teams accumulate points and would forfeit the $1,000 if we didn't compete. We discussed using alternate drivers and felt it would not be fair to our alliance partners to not be on our best. I think it's in all our best interests to perform at our best. If a weaker team makes it to Boston because we don't push them hard enough, then they have a harder time because now the competition is now so much harder with the other teams that qualified.

MamaSpoldi 26-03-2014 10:09
Re: (NE First) Hartford District Event
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmoker (Post 1365017)
Okay, I've been biting my tongue here, but as one of the teams that is competing in Hartford and has already qualified for the district championship, I feel compelled to chime in (no big surprise to those who know me) to explain why we decided to do three district events this year.

We're a team of somewhat limited financial resources, and when the district model was announced we saw it as a great benefit to us. Normally, we're able to do one, maybe two (in the past couple of years) regionals. That's it. But with the district model, and three events being in our home state, we could do two events and add a third at very little cost. When we decided to register for all three CT events, we did so NOT KNOWING and WITH NO WAY OF KNOWING that we would qualify for the district championship. Our thought process was, simply, with no way of knowing that, and given the minimal increase in doing the third event ($1,000 registration, since all the events were local for us and the school provides transportation), why not do as many events as possible so our kids can enjoy the fruits of their labors?

So here we stand. Registered. Fee paid. Yet qualified for Boston. What would you suggest we do? Not show up? Forfeit our $1,000, because FIRST isn't going to give it back? Show up and throw matches? Try not to win any awards?

Our view is somewhat different. In fact, at our meeting last night, we were talking about how we would like to actually HELP teams earn qualifying points by helping them win matches. That's the flip side of the coin. It's not just about taking points away from teams, and has NEVER been about that for us. It is also about helping bubble teams earn points that might get them to Boston. If we can do that, for even one team, we'll be happy.

Oh, we've got stuff of our own we want to accomplish in Hartford. We're still tweaking our shooting, adjusting our strategy, wanting to be the best prepared as we can for Boston. And isn't that what it's about?
Thanks for explaining that, you took the words right out of my mouth... I could not have described it better. Team 230 feels EXACTLY the same way. We planned for the 3 local CT events to give our students the most play time for the money and also hoping that we would qualify for Boston. It most definitely was not a ploy to "take points" from other deserving teams. We also hope to work with and HELP teams that may be struggling a bit to improve their performance (just as we did in Groton and Southington) as well as playing with them on the field and hopefully winning a few matches with them as our alliance partners... and as we have many times in the past we are happy to help other teams learn the ins and outs of scouting as well. Please come by our pit if you need help and we will do what we can to share our knowledge and experience.

Gracious professionalism and coopertition are about working hard and competing hard as well as helping other teams so that they are also at their best. I don't know about anyone else but I don't recall Woodie ever mentioning that it included bowing out of the competition or throwing matches.

Jessica Boucher 26-03-2014 10:40
Re: (NE First) Hartford District Event
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen.Yanczura (Post 1365039)
I could also see a case being made for using a third event (after already qualifying for DCMP) to get a backup driveteam or new members some good experience behind the glass.
And THIS, exactly this, is why we encourage teams to sign up for as many events as you like. Some teams want the practice, some teams want to try new crews, but all teams are getting more time on the sticks.

Next year, play every weekend if you want (I'm looking at you, Miki Oliver). If you have the time and the money, and we have the space, I don't see why we can't make it happen.

Andy Brockway 26-03-2014 10:51
Re: (NE First) Hartford District Event
 
I think every team show go to this event with the intent to win. I see enough politics at work, I like FIRST because everyone helps each other.

I do not believe this should start being a charity case. Some teams will have improved and some maybe have been damaged and are not so good. Gracious professionalism is about competeing like crazy on the field and supporting each other all the time.

My 2 cents.

BrendanB 26-03-2014 10:54
Re: (NE First) Hartford District Event
 
While I can't guarantee anything, if Sat/Sun events came closer to NH late in the season I know of several teams in this area (ours included) who would jump on additional events!

Considering all CT events were Sat/Sun and it was only $1000 to register for the third, it was a no brainer for CT teams to register for all three! Spending $6000 for 36 guaranteed qualification matches ($100 a match) is a STEAL! I'm actually very jealous of the schedule you guys had as a third event would require travel expenses since all close events filled up fast and were very close at the beginning of the season. Plus you aren't having to take any days out of school!

I know there were surveys that went out asking what days teams wanted to compete and Sat/Sun was not a preferred time by teams in our area but NEFIRST should reconsider this now that we have been through a season!

who716 26-03-2014 11:09
Re: (NE First) Hartford District Event
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmoker (Post 1365017)
Okay, I've been biting my tongue here, but as one of the teams that is competing in Hartford and has already qualified for the district championship, I feel compelled to chime in (no big surprise to those who know me) to explain why we decided to do three district events this year.

We're a team of somewhat limited financial resources, and when the district model was announced we saw it as a great benefit to us. Normally, we're able to do one, maybe two (in the past couple of years) regionals. That's it. But with the district model, and three events being in our home state, we could do two events and add a third at very little cost. When we decided to register for all three CT events, we did so NOT KNOWING and WITH NO WAY OF KNOWING that we would qualify for the district championship. Our thought process was, simply, with no way of knowing that, and given the minimal increase in doing the third event ($1,000 registration, since all the events were local for us and the school provides transportation), why not do as many events as possible so our kids can enjoy the fruits of their labors?

So here we stand. Registered. Fee paid. Yet qualified for Boston. What would you suggest we do? Not show up? Forfeit our $1,000, because FIRST isn't going to give it back? Show up and throw matches? Try not to win any awards?

Our view is somewhat different. In fact, at our meeting last night, we were talking about how we would like to actually HELP teams earn qualifying points by helping them win matches. That's the flip side of the coin. It's not just about taking points away from teams, and has NEVER been about that for us. It is also about helping bubble teams earn points that might get them to Boston. If we can do that, for even one team, we'll be happy.

Oh, we've got stuff of our own we want to accomplish in Hartford. We're still tweaking our shooting, adjusting our strategy, wanting to be the best prepared as we can for Boston. And isn't that what it's about?
I am more or less saying that there is still room for improvement, with how the district points structure works. I am stating what I disagree with within the points, and I agree with you in the fact that you shouldn't throw matches or not give 100% at Hartford because you are already in good hands. If I was in your position I would go for another blue banner without a doubt. I would suggest a change to the points rankings for the future where you can still compete at three events without taking the points from others, perhaps if the number one seed has already played twice, and the number two seed hasn't. Then the number two seed gets the number one seed point and it goes on with something like this, im aware that there are a lot of things still are needed to be considered but its possible.

Teched3 26-03-2014 12:10
Re: (NE First) Hartford District Event
 
:) Right on Jessica. We've been in FIRST long enough to see all the changes and growth that has occurred over the years. No team should ever consider doing anything less than their best. Helping means sharing information, repairing a competitors robot, sharing parts and pit equipment, help smaller teams with scouting, and even just being friendly. Raising the bar every year is what this competition is all about. My suggestion is that FIRST might allow teams to count their best points for any two events, if they choose to go to one more. Then everyone will be pressed to do better each time out, bringing the best to the Regional, and eventually the Championship. Buzz will be competing hard to help our Alliance partners, with our backup drive team. This was decided back when the District model was announced for New England. This model is an opportunity for us to train next year's drive team under competition conditions in addition to the post season events we normally attend. FIRST has come a long way since 2 losses and you went home after all this work during the build. Just my opinion. :) :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica Boucher (Post 1365058)
And THIS, exactly this, is why we encourage teams to sign up for as many events as you like. Some teams want the practice, some teams want to try new crews, but all teams are getting more time on the sticks.

Next year, play every weekend if you want (I'm looking at you, Miki Oliver). If you have the time and the money, and we have the space, I don't see why we can't make it happen.

loyal 26-03-2014 13:06
Re: (NE First) Hartford District Event
 
Actual I like the idea of if a team competes at multiple events then use the two top scores. To me that would be better than points from the first two events.
Its not going to change I know. Its just my opinions is all. Bottom line Hartford is going to be awesome and if the live feed bugs out the world is going to miss a great show. So to avoid the live stream upset be there in person live.

MooreteP 29-03-2014 05:53
Re: (NE First) Hartford District Event
 
Time to get down.

What a beautiful venue the "Pub" is.

A terrific tribute to Connecticut FIRST Robotics to be holding this "district" in Hartford the final week.
With many familiar faces and a few new ones, this will feel like a Regional of years past, but with more matches.


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