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[FRC Blog] More ‘Something New’ at the FIRST Championship
Posted on the FRC Blog, 3/25/14: http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...T-Championship
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P.S.: The past two FRC Blog posts before this weren't posted on Chief Delphi (Hmm I wonder whose job THAT is...), but here is the 'Stem Impact Awards' FRC Blog Post that was posted on 3/14/24 and here is the 'FMS Progress, Team Updates, FIRST Values' FRC Blog Post that was posted on 3/21/14. |
Re: [FRC Blog] More ‘Something New’ at the FIRST Championship
I like it.
Does make me curious as to how they'll be awarding division awards (in terms of scheduling and relative to the Einstein matches), though. |
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The time between the end of division awards and the Einstein show starting has always been pretty long but most teams use it to find seats. It's going to be interesting to see how that goes this year with the division award ceremony being more important for teams. |
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I think it's a good change. More awards at the Championship level makes things better for everyone, and a predictable Einstein must be nice.
Personally I wish they would do awards in between matches at the division level rather than after. People are in a bit of a hurry to claim the limited Einstein seating after their division ends, and having awards between matches both gives teams more time and ensures the entire division is present and attentive. |
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This is actually awesome, by Saturday many teams are tired from a long week of competing and preparing for this event, the long speeches and awards seem to drag on even longer because of this. This is a wonderful fix to time constraints and they even found a way to be able to award more teams with engineering inspiration and other various awards.
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This to me will be a great change. |
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Last year they did awards right before alliance selection. Maybe they'll do that again for the awards, but still make it feel like an awards ceremony.
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CD has too much drama right now, and nitpicking how and what others are saying isn't the best way of handling things in the current state of CD and FIRST. Let's go with trying to decipher intent and assume that intent is positive interaction. |
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It will be like having 4 events in one building, should be different, but I think it will actually be a good different...
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I think this is a great change and was well overdue. I appreciate that FIRST made this move. Divisions will feel more like a large regional and begin to hold their own meaning. |
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This does mean that for most teams their chance of winning anything would be over by noon on Saturday but again at championship this isn't much of a problem. |
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Definitely in favor of this idea. Looking forward to seeing what gets put into the timeout slots - I hope at least one of them is the Chairman's video.
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OMG! Everyone seems to be happy about something this season! Awesome...goodluck to you all.
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Holding an awards ceremony for every division really does turn it into more of a regional (or dare I say a super-regional) kind of format. There's no downside to giving out more awards and recognition to teams. I've always wondered about about machine features and the teams who win awards during worlds but have never been able to make a connection because the award winners are likely to be outside of my division. Awesome move! |
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Good move FIRST!!! With 400+ teams attending it is great to see more teams being recognized for their work!
Yes it means you might have to stick around on your division longer and possibly lose out on seats but each team needs to make their own decisions. |
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This. is. awesome. Good move from FIRST.
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I can be a bit crazy though. ;) |
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First,
more robots get to make eliminations at CMPS. Next, more division awards such as EI. That is definitely moving in the right direction! My wish for next year, Crown Division CA. Then of the 4 that win, choose the overall winner on Einstein for the CCA! In the past, they had CCA runner ups. This would be a great way to bring back the runner ups again. |
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Wow, an entire thread with positive comments. I must be on the wrong forum... but my URL still says chiefdelphi.com. Hmmmm...
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FWIW, there were "Chairman's finalists" back in the late 90s / early 2000s - nice, but also frustrating for the teams involved. Take the good with the bad.
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Overall, great step towards bolding the R in FIRST |
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I not sure what motivates me more, the actually winning or just the dream of getting a good seat. :) |
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This is great, FIRST. Continuous improvement. I'm also personally happy about the more predictable timing between Einstein matches. None of us want more field errors on Einstein, but having time--known time--between matches after such errors would teams help a lot. |
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I really like this change. I'm especially optimistic about the flow of einstein really helping make the biggest stage as exciting as it can be. I wonder if FIRST would consider staggering the lengths of the field time-outs little. I know if I was playing on Einstein I'd happily take four minute timeouts in semis if I got an 8 minute timeout in finals, since I have more matches to get ready.
EDIT: I can't believe I forgot we don't have quarters on Einstein. |
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:rolleyes: |
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Great improvement by FIRST. More teams that get reconised by FIRST for there outstanding work!
I have one questiong though, hopefully some one can anser it for me: Do you only qualify for E.I. if you have won this award at regional level (the same thing that goes for chairmans) or do all the 100 teams in that division qualify for E.I.? Can't wait to see all the teams in St. Louis again this year! Greetings from Team 4481 The Rembrandts, The Netherlands 2014 NC Regional Engineering Inspiration winner 2013 NC Regional Rookie All Star winner |
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Alright. I'll be the first person to say I'm not so sure about this.
While I like the idea of certain awards being district level, because many teams deserve Quality awards, Innovation in control and Industrial design; I feel like with certain awards making them district level extremely decreases their sentimental worth. With a lot of teams it's difficult to explain awards like Chairman's to people outside of FIRST, but with things like Imagery it's as simple as: "They said we were the best looking out of the ~200 teams there". Now it's something more like: "They said we were the best looking, but only out of the 60 we were with and 3 other teams also won this award and they were really cool too." The other thing that puzzles me is FIRST tries to stress that EI is not a "second place" to Chairman's. But now that 4 teams win it a year as opposed to 1, and the Championship eligibility is now only for 1 year, they are very unequal (Also on a side note, has anyone noticed that they call it a "Regional Chairman's Award" and an "Engineering Inspiration award"?). While I can't really argue with the way FIRST works, and I'm very gracious to be in it, this kinda gets to me. |
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Also, EI has always only given 1 year of qual. Only Champ Chairman's gets lifetime. |
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Engineering inspiration isn't 2nd place chairman's and now that is very clear. It's judged differently and now it's awarded differently as well. Championship EI has been a bit of a strange award for awhile anyway. It was often rather quickly overshadowed by the CCA winner. I think by giving it out at the division level it will actually get more recognition. Overall a good change for FRC. |
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Mr. Rip |
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FIRST: Awesome changes. Next request for awards - what is EI? |
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Edit: I totally missed Brandon's Post (not sure how) I completely agree with you and had the same thoughts haha
Am I the only one who is a little disappointed in this change? I understand the reason this was done, and I know it's not going to change back. With certain awards I actually like this change. I like having 4 EI winners, partially because it is already basically (IMO) used as a runner up for Chairman's. Having 4 RAS winners is very encouraging for rookie teams. I know FIRST likes to spread the wealth and the more people that go home with hardware the greater the feeling of accomplishment everyone has collectively. My main point is that it is nice to say that "We were the best in the division." But that is so much less awesome to say than, "We were the best in the world." One of the highlights of my FIRST career was winning Motorola Quality in 2008 at the championship. I don't think sharing that feeling of accomplishment with 3 other teams would have had the same effect. How will we ever know if we're better than the Cheesy Poofs? Or Simbotics? (Go ahead, tell me that's not what FIRST is about) I also liked robot awards being on Einstein because you got to see robots you never played against (but were still competing with for awards). Now unless you are up for Chairman's or you make it to Einstein you are really only in a quarter of World Championship. |
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Nope. EI is NOT, and should not be, a runner-up for the Chairman's Award. Separate judges, no presentation (at regional events/CMP... IMO the district system of 'presenting' for EI is kind of odd, and makes it too easy to think that it's runner-up to CA). Similar objectives? Yes, but not the same. Chairman's is the gold standard for changing culture, where EI might be a good sign that you're moving in the right direction. |
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While I understand what you are getting at I can tell you that one of the hardest parts about judging at regionals is knowing that there are deserving teams that you CANNOT give an award for. We agonize over that. And the events I've done have been small (most of them sub 40 teams) and we still agonize over teams that deserve to have their efforts and innovations recognized but we can't. I can scarcely imagine what it would be like if for every one team we couldn't recognize we had 10... How do I decide which is more deserving of a quality award; a team that designed their transmissions to be easily swappable, a team that did analysis on every part of their machine and optimized each structure according to estimated loads, or a team that has a process built into their workflow with several QA checks in place? Who gets the award? It freaking sucks to decide that one. Instead of viewing it was sharing the honor view it as FIRST and the judges recognizing more of our peers. |
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I also tend to see a pattern. In the time I have been involved in FIRST 1/2 of the Championship EI winners have gone on to win Chairman's in the next few years. 2005 - 842 wins EI, 2008 - they win CA 2006 - 365 wins EI, 2007 - they win CA 2008 - 359 wins EI, 2011 - they win CA 2009 - 341 wins EI, 2010 - they win CA One is about inspiring others, the other is about being a role model team, but the teams that inspire their community on level impactful enough to win EI at champs ARE role model teams. |
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That's an interesting pattern - didn't realize that. However, I still think it's pretty great to have four potential future-hall-of-famers than just one each year. I think I like the idea of sharing the honors across the divisions, but we'll see how it pans out when we all get there, I suppose. |
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I think "presenting" might be the wrong word. At least at the NEDCMP, the judges did not have the teams present, but instead had an interview similar to to a pit interview, but just in a separate room, so that the teams not competing with the robots wouldn't have a different experience than those who were. The judging for EI can be done by the same judges or by separate judges than those who do Chairman's. This might help differentiate it from being a "second place Chairman's." (although, I've already always seen it as a very similar award to Chairman's)
I'm curious, are other District Championships having the EI teams do a formal presentation? Or doing the same as in NE? |
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